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@Tradesecret
I don't get to wear the magic fertility underwear.
Is this really sillier than thinking the most supreme being in the universe that created everything great and small, good and evil, beautiful and ugly would be personally offended if two penises bump together?
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@bmdrocks21
Do you know how plea bargains work? When you plea guilty, it is getting executions off the table much of the time. Generally you save everyone’s time and take life in prison.So where on earth are you getting that I want “to just execute everyone”?
Ah... so your goal is just to incarcerate all the humans! That's different. Still clearly a miscarriage of justice and just as clearly oppressing humans rather than protecting them from oppression but different from execution.
I vote we start these mass incarcerations with anyone who supports the idea.
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@Tradesecret
I asked God for the wisdom to know whether the book of Mormon was the real deal or not.How? I opened my mouth and prayed to God.
Well I think the operative questions in that case are did you receive an answer? What form did that answer take? How did you determine the answer was from an external force? Assuming some outside force how do you determine its source?
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@bmdrocks21
I don’t think the rate of false convictions would go down. I think less murderers would avoid jail time since the burden of proof is high for criminal cases
Less innocent people would avoid jail time too. Is your goal to just execute everyone? That would certainly prevent future murder... of course there would be no more humans but trade offs are trade offs.
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@949havoc
Is this some treatise about the myth of freewill? You don't decide to dislike cornflakes so any "choice" to give them a pass on your part is hardly a free choice.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Should be deleted.
Censorship is unamerican poly. I've never called to censor you.
Also is that to say that you don't think you could do as I have requested?
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@bmdrocks21
It would depend on the proportion that are actually guilty vs not. Also, pleas save a lot of court time and money.
I do not have much faith that the rate of false convictions would go down if more people plead guilty. A step forward... in the wrong direction.
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@949havoc
That happens when you think you have no cause to own the land
Perhaps if "owning land" were outlawed it wouldn't hurt anyone but landlords and perhaps I'm ok with that.
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@zedvictor4
Would therefore suggest that it's normal behaviour.
Yes. I wish we could do better
Perhaps someday we will
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@bmdrocks21
Your point that even more defendants would plead guilty than already do? I think I explained that I don't see that as a net positive.
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@zedvictor4
So when was that?Certainly wasn't just a few hundred years ago, in the land mass now known as the U.S.A.
Since always as far as anyone can tell
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@zedvictor4
Yes hind sight is twenty twenty but part of that is admitting when a historical figure is not really worth celebrating
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@TheUnderdog
That is not the current reality. We spend millions of dollars on executions once court costs and appeals are taken into accountSo get rid of the court cases and appeals. Make executions cheaper.
Not true. Lobbying Congress is expensive. Just ask the petrol industry and big tobacco.
If it is not your problem when other people are starving to death why would it be your problem if people are murdering each other?Because I might get murdered.I mean even if it happens close to your house. Just get a good security system or move to a better neighborhood.Not going to prevent murder. Murderers don't care about social security systems.
Again move to a better neighborhood. No one is forcing you to live by a murderer. It's a free country.
Stop trying to steal twenty dollars that isn't yours to kill someone who isn't doing anything that is your problem?They might come over here and kill me if they have a history with murder. I don't want them killing me.
Again you should just move somewhere safer if you don't like it. And build a fence if you are really worried about it. Don't steal someone else's twenty dollars just because you are to lazy to move and invest in proper security.
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@TheUnderdog
I'm taking the risk.
How are you risking more than your workers? Should you go out of buisness you both face possible destitution, homelessness and starvation. I would actually wager you would be better able to recover than the workers actually. Sounds like it is more of a risk for them.
Workers should invest more.
If only they weren't bothered with things like buying food and paying rent and dealing with systemic oppression. More to the point if only their parents would be wealthy and loan them money.
I would get help from a church, not from the government. The church operates using funds obtained through means as consensual as religion it's self. The government forces you to pay money to them. Homeless people can use private churches all they want; using the government is theft.
I am glad you are a member of the religious in group to such a degree you feel that is an option for you. Must be nice.
Jeff Bezos never colonized. He didn't exploit anyone, otherwise he couldn't get his business so successful.
He didn't do the colonizing he is just the right sex/melatonin level and born into the right social class to benefit from it. All corperations must exploit workers or there would be no profit.
Most people don't work minimum wage jobs.Lets say you make $60/year
Most people also do not make 60000 a year. Let's say you need 30000 a year to live and you make 28000 because that is closer to the truth for most of us. If nothing goes wrong that is.
If this was the case, then Jeff Bezos would have comparably rich sibilings
This is a non sequitur. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other. Any siblings he dies have are still more privileged than poor people of color.
Blacks tend to be less sucessful because they aim for different things than whites. Females tend to be less sucessful because they tend to aim for different things than men.
I would be careful speaking for others and also making generalizations.
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@TheUnderdog
Indeed the cheapest thing by far would just be to let nature take its course. If it is not your problem when other people are starving to death why would it be your problem if people are murdering each other? I mean even if it happens close to your house. Just get a good security system or move to a better neighborhood. Stop trying to steal twenty dollars that isn't yours to kill someone who isn't doing anything that is your problem?
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@TheUnderdog
That is not the current reality. We spend millions of dollars on executions once court costs and appeals are taken into account not twenty.
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@TheUnderdog
As an investor, I don't want to give my money to strangers. That's like forcing you to give money to kids in Africa.
We already throw away more food than it would take to feed them and the waste product is rotting in landfills creating greenhouse gases. The cost of continuing on as we are is the possible extinction of the human race. I am talking about saving you far more than money. In any case an investor isn't actually producing anything and I'm not convinced he deserves as much of the profit as the workers that do, especially workers in dangerous or back breaking conditions.
The wage is mutually consensual. If you want more money, find a better job.
Who gets the better jobs is not up to the workers. It is insulting to both our intelligence to pretend it is. In any case I am unconvinced that the inability to find a better job should necessarily be grounds to consign people to perpetual poverty for generations.
You need to contribute to society for society to give you something in return.
I don't know where you get this idea but the people who earn the most do not produce anything for themselves. They only take from society.
Jeff Bezos contributes way more to society than a nurse (nurse make a lot as well). Jeff Bezos's company sells tens of millions of products to people every single day. A nurse may help out 5 people in a day.
Not Jeff Bezos. Jeff Bezos company. Jeff himself only collects the profits. That is his contribution. Even the startup capital he "risked" was mostly in the form of loans. In other words everything was given to him. How does that make him more deserving than a nurse who gets their hands wrist deep in blood and shit to make people well and them go home and try to raise kids right?
Other people starving isn't my problem and it isn't yours.
Is that the attitude you would like for others to have if you were in need? Please don't say "I could never!" Because without your money and privilege you certainly could be. If you were starving and cold and alone would that just be your own problem and you wouldn't ask for or accept help?
irrespective of how rich they are.
They are only rich in the first place because of generations of colonialism and exploitation. The problem is in distribution. No one needs more money than they can reasonably spend in thirty lifetimes. F you think it would cost someone as much to go from being a billionaire to being merely a millionaire than for a person with a minimum wage job to give up all of their income then you clearly are a little out of touch with the consequences of being poor.
It's not arbitrary. People that contribute more to others get more money from those others. Jeff Bezos gets money from you when you buy something on Amazon at a cheaper price than what the store offers for the same product.
Most of the indicators of whether a child will grow up to be wealthy are arbitrary, as in beyond that child's control. Things like being white and a man and most importantly being born into wealth.
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@TheUnderdog
Under our system execution is more expensive than keeping a prisoner incarcerated for life. I don't know what to tell you. If you really only care about the bottom line sparing the life is more cost effective right now.
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@bmdrocks21
You said that the death penalty is not effective because it didn’t lower homicide rates and should thus be gotten rid of. I am saying that measuring based on the homicide rate is too narrow in scope because the policy has wide-reaching effects.
Ok I'm listening. What nuance would you like to add? What wide reaching effects are being overlooked here? Let's have a look at them.
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@TheUnderdog
Jeff Bezos does not deserve more money than a nurse or a first responder or someone who works with disabled children or someone working to make beneficial medicine but he makes more than any of them will make in a life time. Perhaps Jeff Bezos deserves a living wage (as do we all) but he doesn't deserve a billion dollars because no one is entitled to more than they need as their neighbors starve. You are no more responsible for this system than I am but that you are gain more benefits under the system than most people did does not make it a good system just one that arbitrarily favors you.
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@TheUnderdog
Labor doesn't get stolen. It is exchanged at a mutually agreed rate.
Those who own the means of production refuse to share even scraps of their wealth unless we agree to whatever wage we are offered or be subjected to possible destitution, homelessness and starvation enforced by the implicit threat of police violence by the state. There is generally excepted to he a disparity in wages with white men getting on average more scraps and more opportunities for employment, advancement and also for being extended credit than a woman or person of color. This is not a voluntary system it is an obligatory one. It would be impossible to "live like the amish" without first engaging in capitalism to the degree at least which affords you the price of land upon which to build.
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@TheUnderdog
However, you are a thief if you give other people's money away.
You are also a thief if you steal people's labor.
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@TheUnderdog
In order for capitalism to function, you must benefit your society in order to get paid.
I don't know where you got this idea but you can become and maintain your one of the top one percent earners while actively working towards an unprecedented ecological disaster.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I'm sensing an F... maybe a name?... Fred? Fiona? No? It doesn't have to be a name... maybe something happened in February? They died in February? or uh... their birthday? No? Your birthday? Maybe F for Friday? No?!?! Damn, I usually get it by now. Uhhh... were they a father? Anyone's father? Did they have a father?You know what, nevermind... How about an M? Sensing an M now...
It was my dog Quimby. How did you know? That was amazing.
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@Polytheist-Witch
This seems like a pretty reasonable request to me. Also I'm not above anyone. I actually skew pretty egalitarian. That you have beliefs that are unsupported by logic and evidence doesn't make you less worthy of dignity and respect. Just don't mistake the respect I show for your beliefs for the respect I afford you.
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@bmdrocks21
For instance, it makes defendants more willing to plead guilty to get that off the table.
Most convictions are a matter of a guilty plea suggested by a public defender who has little or no time to prepare for your case. How many of these coerced "cooperate or it will be ten times worse" convictions are genuine is up for debate.
Pleading guilty =/= guilty.
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@TheUnderdog
1) I believe there are times when eye for an eye is acceptable.
That is revenge not justice and in truth I am disinterested in justice. My primary goal is protecting the public and I think you should sacrifice your personal conception of justice to do that.
2) I don't want to spend a mere penny to help a murderer out, and I don't want to force taxpayers to pay the bill for keeping a parasitic murderer alive.
Then you should vehemently oppose the death penalty as an execution tends to cost more that the price tag of life long incarceration. If the goal is saving tax payer dollars then life sentences are more cost effective.
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@949havoc
Because your arguments are Marxian. You're following a rock, who cannot even, and never did run a lemonade stand; perhaps the bare bones of capitalism. Follow who has already achieved, and copy their style, not Marx. Think, and do like them, not Marx. You may not even be aware of who Marx is. Burnham doesn't, either, so why is he a role model? He's a kid who found a candy store.
The source of any argument is not as important as the argument itself. I don't care whose idea feeding and housing everyone was first it is a good idea. People ought to he fed and housed.
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@TheUnderdog
The unintended consequence is what causes society to improve.
Only if improving society is not your intention.
If you think capitalism sucks, sell your computer, sell everything you own, and give the money to the poor if you really don't care about money.
The system is compulsory. The threat of homelessness and destitution enforced by the implicit threat of police violence prevents this from being a viable solution. It is odd that you are recommending that I lose everything when I want everyone, including you, to have enough. I think it says something about our individual philosophies.
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@949havoc
If your goal is only to work min wage,
I don't believe this is anyone's goal. Many people do not have the luxury of turning down full time minimum wage work last they suffer homelessness, destitution and starvation. Few people get a "small loan" from their parents in the way you or Donald Trump mean it. Most people borrow money from their parents because their car has broken down or their kids are sick or their heat was shut off. The economically disadvantaged are disproportionately affected by any financial hardship. I'm starting to think you don't know what it is like to struggle with food security and financial stability. Certainly you don't if you think it is a choice.
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@TheUnderdog
There is little evidence that confirms that the death penalty reduces or increases the homicide rate.
Then it is an ineffective measure and should be discontinued.
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@zedvictor4
I agree, but I also believe we need to have birth control, and avenues for plenty of sex of consenting adults and consenting teenagers ---again massive efforts to prevent births--- because we have systemically operational problems for the amount of people on Earth.We have problem with the religous fundamentalitist types believing it is a sin for humans to not be allow unfettered amount of humans births on Earth, while destroying the evironmental systems that sustain human existence on Earth vs, a rational, logical common sense birth control policy that is in consideration of the ecology that sustains humans existence on Earth.Humans are too smart for their britches and to greedy and dumb to implement balance operational procedures to keep us from destroying the ecology that sustains us.
Ebuc just did some of your heavy lifting for you by providing an argument for why
Less selfishness=fewer people
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@Bones
It is commonly asserted that gender and sex occupy different spheres. Whilst the term sex refers to biological attributes, gender is often said to be a social construct of which is in the mind. If this were the case, then why couldn’t one just change their mind? It sounds silly, but if gender has no bearing on physical biology and concerns only one's mind, surely it is easier to just change your mind. At this stage, ideologists usually say “no but XY&Z studies show that trans people have XY&Z similarities to their chosen gender”, which completely misses the point, as referencing studies conducted on the physical body no longer deals with gender, it has moved the conversation onto the realms of biology.
The short answer is because of you. You will consistently misgender any trans person who cannot "pass" but also because looking in the mirror feels wrong. It doesn't match internal identity causing dysphoria. It is a little like getting older. I still identify as younger than I am and am always surprised when my body doesn't do a thing that I once could do without thinking and when I look in the mirror I am always horrified by how old I look. This is my best understanding. I've also heard it described as uncomfortable in the same way it is uncomfortable to wear two different socks of different sizes that are black so the heal and the seam rest uncomfortably... oh and one is wet. If you are cis you might try imagining waking up one day as the wrong gender and imagine how uncomfortable that would make you.
Picture the following. Since my childhood, I have always said that I am a native African (disclaimer I am not black). I have always felt “wrong”, in that my mind does not coincide with my body. For some reason, I just feel black. No doubt some of you hard core liberals would be halting at this scenario. What exactly does it mean to feel black? Am I being racist? Not at all, I have the exact same question as you do. How can one feel that they are black? Surely, the only way to know how it feels like to be black is to be black? How can a non-African possibly assert that they “feel” African without even being African? How would they know what the sensation is like? How would they know that what they feel are the feelings black people? Again, if you think that I am treading on the line of racism, I am only employing the ideology of transgendered people. My question is this. How can a cis-gender man know that what they are feeling is the sensation of being a women? This seems impossible without a point of comparison, that is, experiencing being a woman.
Is it difficult for you to imagine a white child adopted by a black family being raised in a black community with black heritage and cultural context going to a predominantly black church? They might experience racism by proxy especially as a child and have an attitude shaped by the experience that a "ciswhite" person cannot imagine. They might consider themselves to be black and find the reflection of the blue eyed blond they see in the mirror a little jarring.
aforementioned, the term sex is scientifically precise. he distinction between male and females rely on the genotype of the somatic cells. Simply, those who possess somatic cells with XX genotypes are female, and those with XY are male. Thus, the notion of “sex” is reducible to facts grounded in the physical world.It could be argued that intersex people can’t coherently align with either “male” or “female” which could seem problematic for this position. However, it is a misconception that intersex are neither male nor female; let’s examine the types of intersex:i) 46, XX DSDThis is where the person possesses the chromosomes of a woman, but the external genitalia appears male. Obviously, one with this form of intersex can still be deemed female.ii) 46, XY DSDiii) 46, XX ovotesticular DSDHere is where more of a compelling argument can be made; as a person with this form is born with both ovarian and testicular tissue; and can even have both XX and XY chromosomes. However, per the definition of sexes provided, the genotype only applies to “somatic cells” which do not include reproductive cells.iv) Sex chromosome DSDOn the othehand, the term gender is irreducible to physical facts. Gender is reliant on social and cultural factors when determining whether one is male, female or other. These factors are wholly unquantifiable and subjective. How can one distinguish themselves as absolutely “male”, “female” or “other” using subjective factors with it actually having coherent value? To say that something is “more X”, “less X”, “X but not Y” one needs to *demonstrate a method with which he/she/other can determine the value of X*.In science, observations are reducible; for example, if we were to analyse the temperature of a closed system, we would find that temperature is actually reducible to the vibration of particles. Thus, temperature supervenes on grounded empirical axioms (law of thermodynamics). Temperature equates to a B-Property supervening on the A-Property that is particle vibration. Indeed, to talk of the temperature of a system being 0 degrees and not 100 degrees is coherent as temperature is reducible to a quantifiable measurement grounded in the physical world.The issue here is it is impossible for “male”, “female” or “other” to supervene on “social” or “cultural” factors as *these factors are not reducible to any fact about the physical world*. Thus, to distinguish whether one is male, or female, or other, without any scientific (i.e biological) supervenience is absurd. Since sex supervenes on the empirical state of one’s somatic cells, it successfully supervenes on a grounded, quantifiable property. Thus, one can coherently make the distinction of “male” or “female” using the “sex” field.
All of this just shows that sex is more of a spectrum than a binary. It is easy to forget when you have a simple answer to the question am I the correct gender that for some people the answer is more complicated. Male and female brains are wired differently and process information differently. Neither is better but they are not the same. Sometimes people are born with a male body and male chromosomes but has a brain wired like a female. Are they male or female? You have already pointed out those with different chromosomes than their external sex characteristics.
All of these are cases of a person being physically transgender. It is not just in the imagination. It is a physically measurable reality.
As mentioned above, the term sex is sufficient in explaining our understanding of biology without the need for gender. Thus, the term gender is a mere ontological burden, of which Occam's razor does not allow. Why postulate the term gender, when sex sufficiently covers the field.
The short answer is because of you. You will consistently misgender any trans person who cannot "pass" but also because looking in the mirror feels wrong. It doesn't match internal identity causing dysphoria. It is a little like getting older. I still identify as younger than I am and am always surprised when my body doesn't do a thing that I once could do without thinking and when I look in the mirror I am always horrified by how old I look. This is my best understanding. I've also heard it described as uncomfortable in the same way it is uncomfortable to wear two different socks of different sizes that are backward so the heal and the seam rest uncomfortably... oh and one is wet. If you are cis you might try imagining waking up one day as the wrong gender and imagine how uncomfortable that would make you.
The thing which transgender ideologists do is that they create the term gender and assert that it takes precedence over the biologically grounded term, sex. However, if this is accepted, this can be done to any field of identification. Take the example I used above, that is, a genetically non-African asserting that they are in fact black. At the current stage, there is no construct version for the term race, but let’s postulate the term “rase”. Unlike it’s cousin, “rase” is not based on biology, it is completely in the mind and has no bearing on one's physical build. Would it then be sensible for me to assert that I, from this point on deny the factual term race, and opt to identify myself through rase. Also, I want everyone else to buy into this term rase, and pretend that I am whatever race that I want to be, PS not doing so denies me of my humanity.
I think the crucial thing you are missing is that being transgender is not a choice anymore than being black is a choice even if you are a white descended person adopted by a black family and are therefore a black person. If you want to create this artificial class no one is asking for then you can but you likely still don't qualify as transracial and you cannot make yourself transracial anymore than an actual transracial person can make themselves stop being one.
I hope this helps you understand in some small way but the honest truth is that if you really want to learn about the transgendered you should probably get to know some. You will be surprised how often they are willing to explain their personal journey so long as you are respectful.
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If you can talk to spirits of the dead then by all means please demonstrate. I knew some people that didn't make it out of life alive. Can you send me a message from them that is not a Barnum statement?
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@zedvictor4
Then let me put it another way. I am unconvinced that
Less selfish = Fewer people born
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@zedvictor4
Yep.That's what happened back in the day.People thought and cared differently.Some still do.
It was morally abhorrent then as it is now. That doesn't make Columbus other than a monster.
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@zedvictor4
Scroll backwards, and where do you stop worrying about the impact of social development?
The first time people were mistreated over it. Call me sentimental.
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@ILikePie5
Europeans were ready to jump on the opportunity that Columbus provided unlike Leif Erikkson.
Leif Erikkson didn't discover anything that hadn't already been discovered but he was a better navigator than Columbus (he went where he meant to) and he did not wholesale slaughter and enslave the indigenous population. So that's two up on Columbus as far as I'm concerned.
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@Sum1hugme
Since the conversion from the gold standard to floating exchange rates, supply and demand determine currency value more than ever, but governments set those policies.
The government may even be what makes the people believe in a currency but it is the belief and not the government that makes it currency
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The value of money is maintained by the will of the people not the government even if the federal reserve is what gives them this confidence. That is why cryptocurrency has the potential to become money without the need for a government.
Capitalism will always require a government however to enforce the will of its corporate overlords and to maintain their ownership of the means of production.
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@Greyparrot
Virtual currency is money. Money is an idea. Any form of currency which is no longer held in value becomes instantly valueless.
You cannot eat money. It makes poor fuel and worse tools. You cannot mate with it and make little people. Money's only value lies in our agreement about its value. Cryptocurrency represents the same thing to those who trade in it. They are hoping it will one day mean the same thing to everyone.
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@Greyparrot
Capitalism requires a standard of trade. That means money in practical terms.
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@Greyparrot
Capitalism has no power to print money. Governments do.
And yet capitalism requires money to be printed
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@TheMorningsStar
I would wager it is because it is the only issue upon which people are asked to justify their disbelief of a proposition for which no sufficient evidence exists. If I say I believe there are no alien abductions or sasquatch no one asks me if I am sure of that to the nth degree and then treats my admission that no I don't have positive proof of the negative existence of sasquatch as evidence that I have closed my heart to bigfoot. Perhaps it is not atheists but theists who demand that definition or else accuse atheists of being intellectually dishonest.
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With the possible exception of all of existence in its totality
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@BigPimpDaddy
For example, Israelis and palestinians, many Israelis (not all) believe they have a right to kill a bunch of innocents if there are terrorists around, and the palestinians believe they are being murdered by Israelis (not all) so they attack the Israelis, by eye for an eye law, this would never end.
Do you know what really kills a lot of people in that area of the world? Drone strikes. American drone strikes. State sanctioned American drone strikes which are known ahead of time to have an expected cost in civilian life. That isn't even murder as murder must be unlawful and unless some international law supersedes American domestic policy none of our foreign policies can be considered illegal. It is not just murder I find abhorrent.
Do you know why? It is because murder isn't what you object to it is unjustifiable killing of any kind. Unjustifiable to you that is. This is different for everyone including underdog. For him execution is a justified killing. We must suss out your moral standard in order to determine exactly why you fall as you do on this issue.
Rape is wrong
I agree but why? What do rape and murder have in common that makes them bad? What is your bedrock moral axiom?
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@Greyparrot
Capitalism creates inflation. It is part and parcel of the system. Busts and booms are also built in.
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@BigPimpDaddy
no one deserves the death penalty no matter the crime.Eye for an eye is immoral and inhumane.
Can you please elaborate on your second point particularly. Why is it immoral. This is not for my benefit but for yours. It is always necessary to suss put ones own beliefs if one wishes to believe things for good reason.
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@TheUnderdog
Murderers deserve the death penalty, even if your a republican who murders liberals for being pro choice.
Perhaps what we should be focusing on is that the public deserves to be protected from murder. If we had an eye towards reducing instances of murder perhaps that would be more useful than giving murderers what you think they deserve.
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@RationalMadman
Not saying he was the only one but the severity of it all in the short burst he and his crewmembers did it is 'up there' with the most barbaric ways to colonialise.
Agreed
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