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@BigPimpDaddy
Ad hominem attacks are poor substitutes for solid logical arguments.
You have still not elaborated yourself but I shall oblige. China has a political party which self identifies as communist but upon closer examination you will see that the power does bot belong to the people nor do they own the means of production. Any economic system that concentrates all wealth/power into the fewest possible hands in anathema to socialism which is categorized by the workers ownership of the means of production and egalitarianism.
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@n8nrgmi
so do you also have evidence of people praying to fairies and then having inexplicable healing occur to them?
Do you have evidence of people praying to mosquitoes and then having inexplicable healing experiences? No? Then clearly that is not the high mark for proof of existence.
Also inexplicable things are by definition beyond explanation and applying any explanation would then be fallacious.
Also also when did believe in fae I also believed in their fairy magic including the magic to heal and could point put instances when they had "healed" me of some malady or other.
In no cases when something "inexplicable" that was attributed to the supernatural was finally investigated was the cause shown to be supernatural. Your god of the gaps argument is therefore less than compelling to me.
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@BigPimpDaddy
Many of these examples are of totalitarian regimes which claim to be socialist in much the same way western capitalist society calls itself a democracy.
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@BigPimpDaddy
You couldn't elaborate could you? Also and just because it seems to be such a seriously recurring problem when discussing this issue, you aren't accidentally conflating socialism/communism with totalitarianism/authoritarianism/fascism? It is important to he clear that socialism is more or less completely diametrically opposed to any authoritarian regime. Indeed communism is anti hierarchical in general.
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@EtrnlVw
Does God exist?
I don't know.
Next, give an explanation for what you believe is sufficient reasoning
This is exactly backwards.
One does not need "sufficient reason" to not believe in something but rather sufficient reason TO believe. It's called being convinced and I'm not.
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@n8nrgmi
atheists say the universe could have caused itself.
Which atheists are these? I am uncomfortable even asserting that the universe does or doesn't have a cause.
At the moment there is equal evidence that the universe caused itself that it had an external cause or that it in fact did not require any cause whatever.
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@BigPimpDaddy
whats the point.
Begging the question. You are presupposing a point to everything.
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I once believed sincerely in fairies. My beliefs were as genuine then as your belief in some god(s) are now. One wonders how you would respond to a younger and more naive me when asked if you could prove that there were no fairies. I might have pointed out the incontrovertible evidence of faeries hiding my keys or sending me subtle messages and signs.
Or in other words a-fairyism is equally irrational to atheism.
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@n8nrgmi
There is folk lore involving faeries and some people have claimed to have seen or even photographed them. That is evidence on the order of the evidence of any god ever proposed to me.
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@janesix
I whole heartedly agree. In fact one of the things it is presumptuous to think you know about god(s) is whether or not he/she/it/they exist at all.
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@BigPimpDaddy
Isn't the first step confirming that jesus was ever here in the first place? You can't return to a place you have never been and fictional characters are not really anywhere.
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@n8nrgmi
"Atheism is irrational" is a nonstarter. Atheism is not a claim it is the rejection of one. Atheism in and of itself makes no positive posits.
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@RationalMadman
Recycling is an illusion perpetuated by crude oil companies that make plastics so that they may blame the consumer for their wasteful and environmentally irresponsible products.
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@Mesmer
You are moving the goal post by changing from superior as used by white supremacists and superior at "insert stated goal" and IQ tests are among the institutions that are used to justify systematic racism. I am dubious at best of their efficacy in determining actual human intelligence. Nothing you have said convinces me that a large widespread population of interreproductive individuals are not the same race. A white hooved Arabian stallion has softer hooves than a black hooves Arabian stallion they are superior at walking on sharp rocks but they are still the same species. No genetic findings support your claims. I'm sorry but this is not good science it is a justification to discriminate.
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@Lemming
The future will hold things no doubt that we could hardly imagine but we are not on a projected course to become magical space socialists with food synthesizers.
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@Mesmer
These differences are entirely cosmetic.
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@Mesmer
There is only one human race and you cannot derive differences in ethnicities such that any single group is actually superior to any other.
If a white supremacist is called a white supremacist it is in no way comparable to the emotional and sociological baggage involved in using a slur against a group. White supremacy is a social agenda not an ethnic group.
In no way ever will having your racism pointed out to you ever going to represent the same harm that practicing your racism on others does. This is not an argument it is an observation of observable reality.
If your argument has any validity it is only in the pedantic sense that anything could be used as a racial slur.
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@Lemming
Could develop into medium government, where people can produce all they need in their own land and homes.
Almost no one owns sufficient land to make this feasible
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@Wylted
When people say kill all whites, they are talking about caucasions.
Odd caucasians are almost never the target of ethnic cleansing so I don't know who is saying this.
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@drlebronski
i noticed this debate has been pivoted from systemic racism to affirmative action and random crt things
Good point. Perhaps fruit inspector will be good enough to stop moving the goal post but that is not something I expect from anyone taking up the stance that racism is a thing of the past well and truly behind us and that we can simply ignore the subsequent inequalities.
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@Fruit_Inspector
if we are comparing personal monetary wealth -something that is repeatedly done by Critical Race Theorists -
Critical race theory (a college elective course) examined the effects of past and current racism and part of that is the wealth inequality between the privileged people and oppressed people. This has nothing to do with their worth as people and to suggest otherwise muddies the waters of thos discussion.
There is no actual racism that can be pointed to. It's super secret invisible racism.
This is incorrect. Implicit racism can be seen and pointed out just as explicit racism despite racists not being explicit in order to avoid the social and political backlash.
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@Fruit_Inspector
So it is inevitable that black people are less intelligent,
When did I ever see this? I said it is inevitable that more of an oppressed demographic will be socially disadvantaged than a demographic that is not. I would appreciate it if you address only the arguments I actually make.
To phrase it differently, you have just said that it is inevitable that black people will be inferior to white people in almost every aspect of life.
No I have only said that societies systematic oppression has the net consequence of limiting opportunities and promoting social ills. A poor person is not inferior to a rich person.
super secret invisible racism, sometimes referred to as systemic racism.
It is neither a secret nor particularly difficult to see. Culturally the United states has been oppressive to people of color. The effects are far reaching and cumulative. The point is not that any official government body states overtly that people of color should be oppressed but that official policy has tended in the past and continues to be skewed towards maintaining a status quo in which statistically people of color suffer disproportionately.
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@Fruit_Inspector
black people (not all) are usually or more likely to be born in high poverty areas more likely to be surrounded by crime, more likely to have a dad in prison more likely to drop out more likely to do powdered drugs.Is that inevitable because of systemic racism?
Is it inevitable that those oppressed by systematic racism will be more likely to live in the worst areas resorting to drugs and crime to survive and stave off hopelessness? That they will suffer unwanted pregnancy because of poorly available women's health services which results in a higher rate of unwed mothers with unwanted pregnancies? That they will be arrested for offenses that the privileged can simply regard as irrelevant?
Yes. It is inevitable that oppressed people will be oppressed in the ways they are oppressed. Is this even a question?
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@Intelligence_06
I don't but since there is more (percieved) utility in acting as if the group of phenomena colloquially as reality is really real that is what I do.
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@Mesmer
You've strawmanned everything in the OP. The claim the OP makes is that "white supremacist" is a racial slur. Whether or not someone claims all white people have white supremacist views is irrelevant to the term being a racial slur or not.
If no one is claiming that white supremist attitudes are an inherent property of whiteness then it is not a racial slur. Case dismissed.
Secondly, human races are of taxonomic value.
Not genetically. A European descended person may have more dna in common with any given African descended person than any of his eurocentric contemporaries. There is not enough difference between us behaviorally or physically to make any taxonomic distinction.
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@Kadin
All religions would seem to be the creations of men and therefore all equally real and equally fake.
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@Lemming
As autonomous machines become more common this is exactly the sort of society we are moving towards. Why would a capitalist enterprise employ humans if automation is cheaper and more reliable?
I am not describing some hypothetical here.
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@SkepticalOne
As I do not know the correct answer I cannot adequately guarantee that any given answer is incorrect.
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@fauxlaw
A law need mention no specific ethnicity in order to target that ethnicity. Traditionally legal precedents and buisness practices have systematically oppressed many groups and continue to do so but even if all such policies ended right now the long term effects of such laws would remain. That is what makes it systematic.
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@Lemming
I do feel that humans are happier with goals. I do not think those goals need necessarily be tied up in traditional employment
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@Mesmer
No one is claiming that a white supremacist attitude is something all white persons are white supremacists. Indeed there is no taxonomic difference between the various human "races". We are all just human. Any observable differences between social groups is entirely cultural and claiming that white supremacist is a slur sounds like an attempt to make discussing the issues of systemic racism and white supremacist attitudes more difficult.
People interested in truth rarely make discussing it more difficult.
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As human labor becomes increasingly obsolete can we let go of the idea that failure to perform adequate labor is inexcusably lazy and immoral?
Discuss.
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@TheUnderdog
The abortion argument need not hinge on when a fetus becomes a human. If they are humans from the moment of conception it still doesn't matter. No human has the right to use the body of another without their consent. It is therefore true that no fetus, even if it is a full human and deserving of human rights has the right to live inside me if I do not want that.
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@zedvictor4
How would anything get done in your system?And eventually like minded people would come together and form a collaborative group....AKA....A Political Party.Being independent is useless, unless a majority agree with you.And you would need a lot more than 3 ideas to be a successful politician.
Well stated... although if politicians were forced to wear the logos of their largest campaign contributors that might help us understand their real motives better.
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@TheMorningsStar
Can the legal and moral responsibilities to take care of the unborn be compared, on some level, to those to take care of a newborn? The pro-choice position would conclude no while the pro-life position would be to conclude yes.
At no time is it morally correct to force one human being to give their body over to the use of another without their consent. I accept this axiomatically and would need to be convinced otherwise before I could entertain a "prolife" stance.
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@TheUnderdog
If your('re) a gay person and you want to spend the rest of your life with another gay person, why can't you just get a civil union instead of a marriage? Marriage is a religious institution.
Why would a gay person be unable to indulge in religious rituals? Is there some specific reason they should be denied the opportunity to express their beliefs?
Because of this I think gay people should get civil unions/secular marriages so they aren't forcing the church to do something that violates their religious beliefs.
The answer is simple. Simply get someone who doesn't discriminate to perform a religious ceremony. I have a friend who is an ordained dudist if you need a guy.
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@TheMorningsStar
Masculine women are more likely to he the target of bathroom discrimination than feminine men
Just one more reason trans men want to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with.
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@TheUnderdog
China is no more a communist country than Russia was a socialist one. Both are examples of totalitarianism. Totalitarianism generally masquerades as another political ideology and takes on the trappings of whatever is culturally significant to the proposed in group.
Communism is the state of having no state as described by Karl Marx the father of modern communism (who himself had some very problematic antisemitic beliefs that would have made him a poor communist).
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@Mesmer
Racial differences in humans are entirely cultural. No significant biological differences exist. The minor superficial cosmetic differences are not enough to categorize any difference taxinomicaly.
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@aaaa
I am unconvinced that chance does exist. All that exists is human inability to calculate all probabilities effectively.
Also determinism is explanation enough it needs no conscious actor.
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@drlebronski
Overcoming the energy debt we owe gravity makes this plan inefficient... also there is already too much human trash orbiting the earth. It threatens our telecommunications infrastructure and could prove to be disastrous
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@Dr.Franklin
If you respond to this message in an attempt to prove freewill then you are subject to cause and effect. You cannot respond to this post without showing a decided lack of freewill.
If you refuse to answer in order to prove that you are not subject to cause and effect then you are subject to cause and effect. You cannot fail to respond to this post without showing a decided lack of freewill.
You cannot do (or not do) anything for any reason without being subject to cause and effect.
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@Timid8967
Look it is either worth discussing or it isn't abd if it isn't then you've made a strange choice in joining the conversation.
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@Timid8967
Work has nothing to so with UBI. It is a SEPERATE issue. In fact it only implies that all people are equal not that all work is equal but it doesn't really matter since our current system does not prioritize surgeons, teachers, firefighters or farmers.
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@fauxlaw
I don't know what real deal you mean.
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@fauxlaw
You don't have to do anything. You don't even have to have rational reasoning behind your beliefs. Just don't be surprised when others have trouble taking you seriously.
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@MisterChris
In what way does "until all things are accomplished" differ from "until all included prophecies are fulfilled" and while you ponder that remember that even if some bloke named jesus did fulfill one or two the bible makes predictions about the end of the world. All things will never be accomplished. That is a common feature of religions by the way. To claim some authority from the supposed upcoming end of the world.
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@fauxlaw
What is the difference between declaring a law to be no longer in force and declaring that there isno longer a law?
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