zedvictor4

1.  No human, no brain, no fact....Only stuff

2. Unless you know differently.

Books are books.

And thoughts are thoughts 

And books are the product of thought and ideas.

And young earth creationism or not, is variously considered and rendered to a narrative.

Wherein lies the problem?

Giuliani's only crime was his hair dye.

Trump's too, dear oh dear, my oh my.

Though his brush over creation

Did mesmerise a Nation. 

So perhaps Joe, should give it a try.

Always be kind and considerate and understanding, towards your old folk.

Corruption Corruption.

Get's things done.

Temporarily.

As ever shall be.

Until such times as 

Things are created differently

And all memory is consistent 

So difference will be the same.

And so the circus will be irrelevant

And boring...Though we won't realise.

Let there be light...does not imply either you nor "dirt".

Let there be light...Implies universe first.

Notwithstanding this 

Let there be light is

Nothing more than a  human data burst.

And did dinosaurs roar or squeak or cheep or worse

Did  diplod'

Have a GOD.

That would depend wholly upon the nature of the information.

Logic and morality are essentially concepts, based upon acquired data, but variously open to interpretation.

Therefore A.B.C. are similarly open to interpretation.

The formula may be constant, but the outcome will vary, relative to the individual interpretation of data.

In short.......Logic is as logic does.....Rather than, logic does as logic is.

1. No....Facts and opinions are both internal data constructs, which we make in response to observations of external reality. When sensory mechanisms detect an external stimulus, all processes are internal....Stuff doesn't float around out there, with fact and opinion stickers attached.

Of course it is, see 1 above....What else can it be?

3. Yep it's an internal data and systems management unit or device....Organic rather than mechanical.

Your logical conclusion is what you deem to be logical.

Other peoples ideas of logic will be different.

You do not set standards for either logical or moral concepts.

Whores suck.

IN CONCLUSION.

Your conclusion is your conclusion....And rightly so.

Others will conclude differently.

You're goading now...Drone drone drone....LOL

Ethan is poking and staring at an entertainment device...Unless you're dictating to the lovely Mrs Ethan. 

And do you mean "homogenous" or homogeneous?....Though neither really clarifies the sentiment....And "tiny" is relative to scale.....Huge person, tiny mouse.....Huge mouse, tiny ant....Huge ant, tiny bacterium....Hugh bacterium, tiny particle.

1.Fact is an internally generated label we apply to experiences of external stuff.....I use the word "stuff" to differentiate between external reality and internal conclusions.

2. How long is a piece of string....Though internal data and data processing is a functional reality, internally  constructed concepts do not necessarily correspond with anything external.

 

3. The human brain....Our on board computer....That which controls everything we do.

4. See 1 and 2.

5. I do not see the relevance of your last comment. Nonetheless, systems failures or deliberate repetition are two possibilities.

OK.

 

And yes, this is why  abortion is legal, and similarly why it is also considered right to kill others as an act of war or  as an act of punishment.

What this goes to show is that human rights and morality are variable and never set in stone.

Therefore, whilst we continue to accept the need for a variable and selectively moral society....We must therefore accept that such criteria cannot undermine a set of variable standards....otherwise this would be  a contradiction of expectancies

As for society not caring...Well this is a sweeping statement  aimed at those who do not agree whole heartedly with your viewpoint...And once again is unworthy, given the real nature of a societies demands and needs.

Ad nauseum was your punchline Einstein.

And love it or hate it we're in our own nationalistic, conservative led bubble right now.

And then there's also  the Welsh nationalistic bubble to consider.

But fortunately  I'm content within my own apolitical bubble.

Interesting how we all live in bubbles these days.

And liberal and conservative are just internal data sequences relative to internal concepts.

Actions tell the real story.

And our active lives are probably very very similar.

Get up, ablutions, feed, poke the device and goad each other, attend to domestic necessities, variously feed, exercise maybe, earn some money maybe, interact with family and friends maybe, praise the lord maybe, relax  and stare at entertainment devices, yawn and then go to bed.....And repeat.

Nope...Stuff existed before we acquired the knowledge to understand it.

Acquiring the ability to understand stuff is an internal process....Once we have acquired, understood and converted stuff to stored data/knowledge, we can then attribute bits of stuff with varying labels depending upon the quality and representative value of a bit of stuff/data.....Hence we can conclude with a high degree of certainty that certain data is representative of reality..... We then refer to this as fact.

In short... To be able to say that something is factual, you firstly need a device that is capable of making such choices and decisions.

Shorter still...Stuff is out there and fact is in here.

And content in this instance is a specific data sequence we choose to output as narrative...If we were unable to consider and vary this process, we would just keep repeating ourselves, like a parrot. 

Maybe so.

But getting hung up on HRC  and her expenditure is just a four year old dig at democrats .

I'm referring to a social process that allows unqualified and inept people to become POTUS, simply on the basis of their ability to pay.

Doesn't matter who they are or what they represent.

Hence the need for proper presidential qualifications.

Now Donald you mustn't press the red button....D'oh.

Stupid sour grapes argument for the sake of it....Move on...Forget Citizen Trump and find a new Republican Godhead to worship....Preferably one who possesses a modicum of integrity.

You miss the point completely....Or ignore it.

Who spends the most money is irrelevant....They all spend a lot of money.

Allowing an incompetent person to buy a presidency is the issue....Whosever that might be.

Allowing DJT to buy a presidency was like allowing a barber to become a brain surgeon.

And at least HRC could string a coherent statement together.

@RationalMadman

GWB... And there was  another with very little presidential qualification or necessary intellect.

These wealthy people really should be required to sit exams before they attempt to buy the ultimate position of power and responsibility.

Can they string a succession of words together to form a logical statement, would be a start.

Facts and opinions stem from knowledge, that is acquired and stored data.

The application of knowledge, as facts or opinions, are all processed and output from the same database.

The basis of truth and emotional appeal is also derived from the same database of knowledge.

Variation in content is the only deviation within the process.

We use words to define and we use words to define words....With which we express factual knowledge or opinions or hypotheses etc etc.

At the beginning of this discussion you set a challenge...To which I responded ....To which you failed to respond.

We already live in societies where human rights are selectively applied, in order to to suit the needs and demands of societies.

In such societies morality and immorality are also variously applied to suit the same needs and demands.

You already live there and live by the dictate of those needs and demands.

And that either does or does not include legal abortion.....And therefore the needs and demands in either case dictate how societies  view abortion in respect of human rights and morality.

Your personal views of such issues, are just that....As are mine.

And furthermore, deliberately misinterpreting my statement regarding the arrogance of assuming for others, was unworthy.

Moral or immoral is what ever one considers it to be....Assuming a moral code for others is arrogant.

And so I would say that regarding feeding starving kids as charity, is not only as immoral as you consider abortion to be, but also arrogant.

So selective morality abounds and you readily buy into this system...Therefore your moral viewpoint is no more or less worthy than anyone else's. 

And Human Rights and hypocrisy go hand in hand...always have and always probably will.....it's not something that can be ignored for the sake of a whimsical debate.

So what actually are the objective and subjective things that you refer to?

And more importantly, where do they come from and what would be the two separate processes that generate them?

And what do you mean by deviation?

You think that I am a liberal.

And hey...We have to put up with ad nauseum theistic droning.

It's tit for tat...Par for the course.

And.... "Militant anti-theist"...Love that one......Don't think that I've ever been referred to as militant before.

More sort of...Realistic Non-Theist...I would say.

The unruffled, other side of the debate....That spoils the theistic pat on the back club's fun.....Just by being here.....No militancy required.

It all depends on the whims of the voters.

Is it moral for the "rich part of the world" not to freely feed all the starving kids......Or isn't this just as immoral as abortion.

I wonder how many pious anti-abortionists have nightmares worrying about the starving kids that don't life in Dreamland, Down Town America.

The U.S has the benefit of a huge Back Yard, so I'm surprised to here that there are so many NIM's.

Of course, less reliance on fossil fuels would mean less of a need for a military presence in the Middle East.....Which makes you wonder who all the NIMBY's are.

Everything is powered by the Sun anyway...So it would seem more sensible to utilise a  limitless  direct supply of energy....Well, limitless for as long as it lasts,  and after that there will be no one here to care, as there won't be a here to care about....Perhaps we will be elsewhere by then, and will have worked out how to do things properly....Including how to engineer out the selfish gene......... Or perhaps Another Intelligence will already have things sorted.

Nonetheless.

And then there's human over dependence and unnecessary or necessary, use of energy to consider.

And nuclear is problematic from start to finish and beyond....Well, it is for carbon based lifeforms. 

I will therefore give them the benefit of the doubt.

Real people are real people.....And fantasy characters are fantasy characters.

And the Jesus character of Middle Eastern folklore, may or may not have been based upon a real person....But his proposed real dad, wasn't.

As GODS always have been global fantasy characters that represent universal creation and human purpose therein.

Understanding this, has nothing whatsoever to do with racism.....An analogy to far, so to speak.....

In simple terms, a modest theist then.....Otherwise regarded as an expert in Middle Eastern folklore and the westernisation thereof.

Ok...So I understand why you edge your bets with Graviton and Darkon.

So explain the significance of particle shape?

The dictionary records and defines  words. 

The dictionary doesn't explain the physiological process of word and accumulated data production....For that you require another text book.

And you typically, ignored my question.

And the Sun seemingly rises and sets, but it is us that go around and around.....And as far as we are able to know this is a reality....And in this context therefore a known fact, and a statement thereof.

Tetragrammaton....Now there's a good word to slip into a debate.

Nonetheless...I would imagine that, YHWH motivates YHWHists and vice versa.

Protesting mob, or mob of protesters?......Take your pick.

Thanks for your time.

But I openly admit, that in regard to theoretical physics I am a super-layman.

So tell me very simply, how you think that your hypothesis actually interplays with the visible universe.

Firstly, tell me why you beg to differ.

In terms of process and regardless of detail variations, how does the production of one bit of data output, differ from another.

I reiterate...Might be a genius....There again might not.

Do they have a rationale?......It's hard to determine.

Do strange men grope you in park restrooms?

Unless solicited, I think this would be regarded as assault

As would any unsolicited groping in any restroom anywhere.

Though David would seem to be in favour of this.

Assault....Quite an inappropriate or appropriate word....depending upon ones park restroom proclivities.

Where I live, ones park restroom facilities are usually behind a tree....Don't want to offend any sheep......Or grope them (before you say anything).

I know that Welshmen do have a reputation....But technically I'm not Welsh.

It's too late anyway.....It's just people attempting to jump aboard a gravy train.

The same gravy train service, that's always run by the same fat people.

That wasn't Moses was it?......That was Gandalf wasn't it?......it's so easy to get these fantasy characters mixed up isn't it?

Mighty is Popeye.

So many "ists"........Grab your self some "old bloke" and stick an "ist" on the end of his name.

So that makes Mr E and Ethanist and me a Meist.

Well.... I won't go down the "objective" road, as that's another discussion.

But certainly, open mindedness, allows us to appreciate a wider range of musical/sound constructs.

As for songs.....For me, the value and quality of accompanying lyrics is very important.

Nope..... Americans seemingly can never get enough of Oil and Israel.....Democrat or republican doesn't make any difference.....Why is that, Doc?

Dramatism.

If you want to see a dramatic suppression of free speech and liberty take a look at Russia.

Sour grapes isn't quite the same as a total intolerance of opposition.....Though that was the aim of the Republican mob.....Fortunately the bulk of the U.S. population behaved differently.....As did the bulk of U.S. politicians, thankfully.

In four years time you will be free to have another go....I doubt that it will be quite that easy for Russians.

Not the words, but the processes.

You get too hung up on words, which are representational data constructs.....Which in terms of both subjective and objective, primarily represent an assumed, abstract truth.

In terms of production... Other than the appreciable narrative, both are subject to the same creative process.

We can often have a high degree of certainty that our internal constructs represent external reality....Object or objective.

But we also often, actually have no certainty and rely upon an assumed certainty, which cannot actually represent anything external, other than an appreciable narrative.

The appreciable narrative itself is objective, though the internally organised data content contained therein, is wholly abstract or subjective.

Lockdown is as you make it.

You can't blame Joe or Donald.

And fortunately neither of us live in "Brutal States".

Hey just enjoy life for a while.

And stop worrying about stuff that doesn't  need to concern you....Until the next politico-media circus comes to town in four years time.....Perhaps the orange clown will once again be the star of the show.

Imagination is a fantastic thing.

In my imaginary comic book, I imagine that Dr Necessary can easily be destroyed, and that Contingent Man is indestructible..... And Madame Lingerie is a Goddess who can reduce super heroes to drooling numpties.

I think which is the greater in this case is self evident.

Though I'm not sure if one can apply self evidence to imaginary scenarios. 

Word, fact and object are all internal data construct and  subject to the same production process.

Therefore, irrespective of possible  validity, all such  data output is an abstract internal process.

An object, (including appreciable narrative) although subject to the same internal process for validity, nonetheless also involves sensory mechanisms, which allows for a level of certainty.

Nonetheless an appreciable narrative that represents an internal data construct, is only representative of an abstract process.

In short, objective is subjective unless subject to a level of sensory certainty (perhaps)....Though an appreciable narrative does not in itself validate an internal data construct as a representation of an  external reality.

In fact, considering the nature of human function and process....I think that it is fair to say that we can never be 100% certain of anything.....Though our ability to be uncertain does offer us a high degree of confidence in our existence......I think therefore I am as it where.