Instigator / Pro
1
1711
rating
33
debates
84.85%
won
Topic
#1310
Brazil is greater than Mexico, as of now.
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...
Trent0405
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 2,700
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1294
rating
75
debates
18.0%
won
Description
Brazil is Greater as of now, than Mexico. Great definition that you must agree on-"markedly superior in character or quality."
You must argue that Mexico is greater than Brazil.
Round 1
Debate: Sept/7/19 Thank you very much Billbatard for excepting my debate.
Power and Geography
Economy
The size of the Brazilian economy is more than 600 billion dollars larger than the Mexican one, a 52% difference. Not only this, but when these are adjusted for purchasing power parity, Brazil beats Mexico by 800 billion dollars, a 33% gap. On a per person basis Brazil is also slightly better off if you look at each persons average disposable salary when accounting for cost of living, and taxes, a Brazilian is better off.
Cultural Influence
Brazil was ranked the 7th most culturally impactful nation in the world, while Mexico ranks 26th.
Military
Brazil possesses the 13th largest military according to "The Global Firepower index 2019." This same source puts Mexico as the 34th strongest military.
Geography
Brazil is the 5th largest country, but, Mexico is 14th, being 422% bigger than Mexico.
Freedoms, standards of living and service to the world
Freedom
The difference may be small but Brazil is freer than Mexico, with Brazil ranking 83rd, and Mexico 100th.
Standard of living
First lets look at violent crime, despite Brazil holding the most violent crime of any nation, on a per capita basis Brazil is better off than Mexico.
Service to the world
Holding a large amount of Peacekeeping forces is a great way to demonstrate greatness, Brazil does this well by contributing 2,254% more peace keepers to the United Nations.
I'd implore my opponent to state his case and then do rebuttals in R2, although you're under no obligation to do so.
Most of Brazil is on fire , the president of the country is like a mussolini type Mexico seems to be in better shape, prove me wrong
Round 2
My opponent has stated his case, here are my rebuttals.
Most of Brazil is on fire
As seen in my source, most of Brazil isn't on fire, it actually appears that fires were worse in 2003 and 2010. The total fatalities of these fires was 2, Also, a substantial amount of these fires are made deliberately.
the president of the country is like a mussolini type
My opponent fails to substantiate this in any way.
Mexico seems to be in better shape
My opponent fails to substantiate this in any way.
Now I'd implore my opponent to rebut my R1/R2 arguments now, although you don't have to, also, please substantiate your claims.
The Mexican economy is in better shape than the Brazilian economy About 198,000 results (0.73 seconds)
Search Results
Mexico/GNI per capita
17,740 PPP dollars (2017)
19901995200020052010201520,00020,00015,00015,00010,00010,0005,0005,00000
•
Mexico
17,740 PPP dollars
(2017)
•
Venezuela
-
•
Brazil 15,160 PPP dollars (2017)
the leader of brazil is a fascist dick https://www.vox.com/2019/8/22/20828297/amazon-rainforest-fire-bolsonaro-brazil-populism there you go proof
Round 3
The Mexican economy is in better shape than the Brazilian economy
You try to prove this with GNI per capita, I'll break this down.
What you said is true, but by Nominal GDP(listed in R1) and by GNI(not per capita) Brazil is better off by 648 billion dollars.
I'm assuming you used GNI per capita to prove the average Mexican is better off than the average Brazilian. Well, as listed in R1 the average Brazilian has more disposable salary after taxes and after being adjusted for cost of living.
Staying on the economy, a Mexican Peso is nearly 5 times stronger than a Brazilian Real. This is actually a good thing, my source states"A weak currency may help a country’s exports gain market share when its goods are less expensive compared to goods priced in stronger currencies. The increase in sales may boost economic growth and jobs, while increasing profits for companies conducting business in foreign markets." But it doesn't end there, Brazil's population is just under 100 million people larger than the Mexican population, this will let Brazil scale it's economy to a much greater extent.
the leader of brazil is a fascist dick https://www.vox.com/2019/8/22/20828297/amazon-rainforest-fire-bolsonaro-brazil-populism there you go proof
Your source focuses a lot on forest fires, well in this source(He's reviewing a NYT article), it's obvious fires were worse in 2003 and in 2010, so his right wing populism can't be that bad for the environment. Also, in that same source it shows just how little deforestation has increased under Bolsanoro.
the leader of brazil is a fascist dick
No where in your source does it say the Brazilian leader is a fascist.
do they look at tax rates in Mexico Mexico's individual income tax rates range from 1.92% to 35%. Non-residents (those in Mexico on a work visa/permit) pay 15% to 30%. Mexico's corporate tax rate is a flat 30%.
Taxes in Mexico: Great Info for US Expats 2019 - International ...
https://internationalliving.com › countries › mexico › taxes brazil
Brazil Taxes
Last
Previous
Highest
Lowest
Unit
34.00
34.00
37.00
25.00
percent
27.50
27.50
27.50
27.50
percent
17.00
17.00
17.00
17.00
percent
39.80
39.80
42.80
31.00
percent
28.80
28.80
31.80
20.00
percent
11.00
11.00
11.00
11.00
percent
Individual Income Tax: Mexico's individual income tax rates for 2016 are progressive, from 1.92% to 35%.
Mexico Personal annual tax rates 2016(MXN)
Income (MXN)
%
1 - 5,953
1.92
5,954 - 50,525
6.4
50,526 - 88,793
10.88
88,794 - 103,218
16
103,219 - 123,580
17.92
123,581 - 249,243
21.36
249,244 – 392,842
23.52
392,843-750,000
30
750,001-1,000,000
32
1,000,001-3,000,000
34
3,000,001 and over
35 mexcios taxes are heavily prograsive the rich pay more the poor pay much less workers start out with more and pay less in taxes with wealthier paying more
it also doesn't look like you accounted for cost of living while my source did
the source did
I didn't do the math.
i did your math is off
That's not true, didn't you check my source it accounts for taxes
after taxes mexicans actually have more disposable income
please post, 6 days remaining
Huh, please @ me if you want to put your arguments in the comments, and source them please, I just found this after posting. will address in R3 if I remember, please put this in the debate, I'd love to respond.
About 193,000 results (0.74 seconds)
Search Results
Mexico/GNI per capita
17,740 PPP dollars (2017)
•Mexico
17,740 PPP dollars
(2017)
•Venezuela
-
•Brazil
15,160 PPP dollars
(2017)
Explore more
brazil is burning
bump for potential competitors
bump
I brought up disability because people feel they can't hold a job anymore so they go on disability. They wouldn't otherwise go on it(it definitely isn't enough to live comfortably on in many cases. The number of job applicants per position is important, and it's more of it needs to be a happy medium(it can't be too low or too high). If there are too many applicants, then it's an employers economy where they can pay starvation wages and offer horrible conditions because out of the 100 applicants for one job position, it's likely one will still accept it out of desperation or something. Since there are so many applicants per job position, employers can be super picky, moreso than say 70 years ago. So, people with simple depression and displaying such symptoms at work can be let go or fired in favor of one of the dozens more mentally-healthy candidates. So, depressed people or anyone with a simple disability apply for disability income. While they do that, they are no longer counted as unemployed. Do you see where I'm getting at now?
Either way, it may be best to wait and see what I bring up in that debate. It'll be much clearer when I lay out my case there since this is just a comments section.
I didn't argue for GDP and unemployment because I know they are flawed. I have no clue what disability benefits have to do with anything. The only explanation for that would be liberals expanding SS broadly to get more people dependent on them for income. Also, I used cost of living because that isn't a flawed statistic.
Average number of applicants for jobs? Which way are you saying that would be good, more or less applications?
I would suggest not using average income because of outliers. I don't believe that "debt slave" is a defined term. Therefore, I don't think you can state that we have the most of something if it doesn't exist.
I've given reasons in the below debate I'm doing, and I'll be substantiating those claims once my opponent posts their opening:
https://www.debateart.com/debates/1325/the-us-is-dropping-to-the-bottom-half-of-desirable-developed-countries-to-live-in
In the mean time, you've both argued about the economy. I'm assuming you're referring to GDP and unemployment. Both are flawed statistics to go by. GDP can simply rise due to automation(it directly raised productivity, and thus GDP), so it has nothing to do with how well the average person is doing(i.e how much they make). As for Unemployment, there are a lot of areas which don't count towards official unemployment records. One in particular is disability. ~500K people were on Social Security Disability benefits in 1960. Today, over 10 million are - a 20 fold increase that also doesn't take into account the disability benefits on each state level(this is only federal), so even more people went on disablity through states too(which are mutuall exclusive with federal benefits as you can only collect one or the other). Meanwhile, population only increased by about double. Unless Americans are 10 times more likely to be disabled, something is going on here. Perhaps people feel more compelled to apply for Social Security Benefits(and go into other areas such as Students, prisoners, etc who aren't counted as officially unemployed) due to that they can't get a job.
A better metric to measure the economy, imo, is the average number of applicants per job position. Let's look at that instead of unemployment.
Furthermore, the average income of Americans is only so high because it has the most billionaires(aka OUTLIERS) per capita. Yet, it also has the most people per capita in the developed world who become debt slaves due to life-saving expenses like health care.
How is the nation that gives more foreign aid than any other nation garbage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors
How is the 13th freest nation as of 2018 garbage.
file:///C:/Users/trent/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/IE/MKRY2Y23/human-freedom-index-2018-revised.pdf
America is garbage? Why is there GDP per person MUCH larger than Canada, Germany and Japan.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US-CA-JP-DE
Fascism according to the world population review-Fascism is a type of government that is characterized by a one-party dictatorship. When a country is under the rule of a singular dictorship, it entails that there is a centralized government led by one person, and that leader is known as the dictator.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/fascist-countries/
America has a 2 party system, and unlike countries like Canada, Americans can choose the representatives of each party via primaries.
Trump doesn't have rule America, there is a congress that stops the president from doing dictatorial/fascistic things, and a constitution that keeps the president from doing dictatorial/fascistic things.
The country with the strongest economy in the world is garbage right now? Just because we don't tax the hell out of businesses and producers for the economy to make everything from healthcare to college free, doesn't mean our country is garbage.
I find your allusion to fascism in America laughable. Could you perhaps provide evidence that isn't an opinion piece?
You mention Mexicans voluntarily leaving...Still, there are hundreds of thousands of them caught trying to hop the border[1]. Their country is corrupt as hell and is run by drug cartels. That is why they are leaving and coming to a place that actually has jobs. Sure, it is more expensive to live in a First World country, but you can make more money here.
[1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/05/politics/southern-border-migrants/index.html Increase in illegal immigration.
We are 15th in the world for best cost of living. Italy is 27th. Mexico is 68th. They are much lower because jobs over there pay much less and there are less jobs in general. https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php
However, for those that still hate America despite reality, they will not be missed.
Actually, more Mexicans are voluntarily leaving the US and consider Mexico better than the US right now, and have been since about 2008[1][2][3]. Given I've had to gone into debt just to merely live(as do some 1/3 of Americans), I agree with them. Pretty certain no one in any other developed country has to make the decision of whether to die or become a debt slave to the overpriced healthcare system in other countries.
[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/
[2] https://www.delmarvapublicradio.net/post/more-mexicans-are-crossing-border-leave-us-here-s-one-family-s-story
[3] https://www.businessinsider.com/number-of-people-moving-from-us-to-mexico-2019-5
Furthermore, my Wife's family agrees. She's the daughter of Mexican immigrants(yes, she's a citizen), and I agree. My wife and I plan on going back to my ancestor's home country: Italy. The US is complete garbage right now. The irony of this is my ancestors moved in 1920 due to fears of rising Fascism in Italy, and now I'll be doing the reverse but for the same reason ~100 years later. Fortunately I was technically born with dual American and Italian citizenship due to Italian citizenship laws being quite liberal in that they grant citizenship to anyone who has Italian citizens as ancestors(I do of course). I just need to prove that is all, and they'll consider me as having been born with Italian citizenship, and with my wife being married to an Italian citizen, makes it easy for her to.
bump
Thanks! I enjoy seeing your country debates
good to here. liked your debate topic BTW.
maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy take you up on this, but I want to see if anyone accepts my current challenge
lol, true.
Yeah, American media hates him, which is to be expected. He is right-wing after all.
Heard good and bad things about him, haven't looked too deep into him though.
Well, Brazil has a nice new change in management. Bolsonaro is awesome!
I want to do one that’s Mars colony first vs Moon colony first
Well that could be because of geographical location. less people would be willing to journey up to America from Brazil because the panama canal is in your way. Brazil has problems, more than I thought actually, don't want to bring them up now in case someone that accepts the debate uses them. But yeah, neither nation is great really.
Obviously. Don't see millions of Brazilian immigrants trying to hop our border, now do you? ;)