Instigator / Pro
14
1554
rating
15
debates
73.33%
won
Topic

Left wing policies, in general, are better for the economy.

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
6
0
Sources points
4
4
Spelling and grammar points
2
2
Conduct points
2
2

With 2 votes and 6 points ahead, the winner is ...

Nemiroff
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Politics
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Unrated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender / Con
8
1294
rating
75
debates
18.0%
won
Description
~ 446 / 5,000

It may seem counter intuitative at first with republicans being the business friendly party. However history shows truth, and being existing business friendly isnt the same as overall market friendly. Being chummy with businesses often stifles competition. A left wing equally regulated economy is far more free and fair then a right wing subsidized economy where hand picked businesses get unfair tax benefits while acting with maximum impunity.

Round 1
Pro
Premise 1. This is a bit anecdotal as presidents dont have total control over the economy, but it is a consistent pattern going back many presidents. And a pattern is very clear. Democratic presidents have seen greater stock market growth, and stronger other economic indicators



Premise 2. Blue states, with their high taxes and extra regulations have the biggest economies, generate most of the nations wealth, and house most of the major companies. Why havent the taxes and regulations driven companies out? Because taxes arent bad. They paid for the roads and security those companies appreciate. They also educate the public that will become their workers and consumers. Support for the public in the form of higher wages, sanitation, etc also allows for a steady, and healthy, consumer base. It has its advantages. You may disagree with my reasons, but the success of blue states vs red states is objective fact.

Con
It is my premise that Republicans in red states implement conservative economic policy or right wing , Democratic states implement Liberal economic policy or centrist . no state in the usa implements left wing economic policy which might be exemplified by https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jun/25/the-new-left-economics-how-a-network-of-thinkers-is-transforming-capitalism  https://www.vox.com/world/2017/3/13/14698812/bernie-trump-corbyn-left-wing-populism i think one of the few successfull left wing models would be norway In Norway, the surplus from the oil boom has been used to build a $1 trillion collectively-owned capital fund with the return on that capital going to finance general government spending, including the country’s large welfare state. This capital fund is even colorfully described by the Norwegian government as “the people’s money, owned by everyone, divided equally and for generations to come.” much of the Norwegian Economy is collectively owned, you cant say that about any American state
Round 2
Pro
My opponent claims democrats employ liberal but not left wing policies. That is like saying democrats are like the french, but not like europeans. Left is an entire spectrum with more than 1 ideas and models. Liberal is certainly on the left half of the spectrum. 

A counterexample was a european nation with a small homogenous population and petrol wealth. Not a great analogy to the united states. However within the american economy it is clear that left wing policies have worked out better then right wing policies, that point was not contested and i believe is something we actually agree on. 

Left is a relative notion, it relies on what is considered the center, and that can change in time as well as between nations.
Con
If you study European political ideology you see that liberalism is centrist, and sometimes even on the center right talk to any european and he will laugh if you say liberals are left wing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_Europe  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_of_Liberals_and_Democrats_for_Europe
Round 3
Pro
I don't understand the relevance of your point. Left and right are relative terms whose values change with time and between nation. Europe's political spectrum is not a defining default, but just one example. The American spectrum is no less valid, nor the spectrum from another part of the world. 

It was my mistake for not limiting this debate to the American spectrum as was my intent, which leaves me open to easy counterpoints, but that doesn't seem to be my opponent's intent. So far my point that left wing policies are economically superior in American history stands since no counterexamples or disagreements to negate my claim have been presented.
Con
put simply there is not left wing in the united states Democrats are centrist and no state or municipality in the united states implements leftist policy, party because of Constitutional limitations and partly because Americans are basically conservative, do you see one city of state as left wing as even say Singapore? https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/09/a-few-admiring-words-for-crypto-socialist-singapore/    https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2018/03/09/how-capitalist-is-singapore-really/The case of Singapore is more than just a funny gotcha to use against right-wingers. It actually raises an interesting question about what it is people care about when it comes to “capitalism” and “socialism.” Is capitalism primarily about markets or private ownership? Relatedly, is socialism primarily about ending markets or promoting collective ownership? Often these things are bundled together, but they are logically and practically separable. Singapore (and Norway, among others) shows that it is quite possible to collectively own the means of production while also using price systems to assist in the allocation of productive factors. This is what market socialists have been saying for a hundred years.
Round 4
Pro
As i explained, left and right are relative positions that are dependent on the different political climates of their local regions. Singapore may seem left wing in some senses, but its also a brutual autocracy where free speech is condemned, surveillance is massive, and quality of life crimes are punished with physical punishments like caning. In many ways it is extremely backward, and the opposite of liberal or progressive. 


Just to repeat, this has nothing to do with my argument, any of my points, or anything this topic was meant to discuss 😥
Con
cuba and joesef stalin were left wing economic policy wonks, mASSachusetts would be considered only slightly left of CENTER MY POINT IS THIS you may be right about blue state liberal economics being better, it way well be, many blue states out perform most red states by margin, MY other point is the deciding point

these policies may well be more effective, however they are in no way shape of form left wing https://www.britannica.com/topic/left  Left, In politics, the portion of the political spectrum associated in general with egalitarianism and popular or state control of the major institutions of political and economic life. The term dates from the 1790s, when in the French revolutionary parliament the socialist representatives sat to the presiding officer’s left. Leftists tend to be hostile to the interests of traditional elites, including the wealthy and members of the aristocracy, and to favour the interests of the working class (see proletariat). They tend to regard social welfare as the most important goal of government. Socialism is the standard leftist ideology in most countries of the world; communism is a more radical leftist ideology.
This article was most recently revised and updated by Jeannette L. Nolen, Assistant Editor.