Instigator / Pro
18
1518
rating
7
debates
57.14%
won
Topic

No one needs an AR-15

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
3
33
Sources points
8
22
Spelling and grammar points
6
11
Conduct points
1
11

With 11 votes and 59 points ahead, the winner is ...

dustryder
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Politics
Time for argument
Three days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender / Con
77
1535
rating
5
debates
70.0%
won
Description
~ 1,204 / 5,000

This is the full description of the debate! It is highly important that you read this. If you do not read this, you might regret it later if you accept this debate.

PRO = No one needs an AR-15.
CON = At least one person needs an AR-15.

The Burden of Proof is on con, of course pro can provide arguments as pro sees fit.

Pro is not arguing that no one should be allowed to have an AR-15, simply that no one needs an AR-15.

Definitions:
No one = No person
Person = A human being
Need = a physiological or psychological requirement for the well-being of an organism
AR-15 = ArmaLite Rifle 15

Rules:
1. The above definitions are not to be disputed, unless agreed upon pre-debate in comments
2. Pro will waive first round, and con will waive R4.
3. Pro cannot provide rebuttals during R2, because con cannot provide rebuttals during R1.
4. Pro cannot provide new arguments in R4, and con cannot provide new arguments during R3.
5. Be respectful
6. No forfeits
7. For all relevant terms, individuals should use commonplace understandings that fit within the rational context of this resolution and debate
8. Violation of these rules should result in full points being awarded to the rulebreaker's opponent

Round 1
Pro
Waived, as per rules of this debate
Con
Definition: well-being,
the state of being comfortable, healthy, or happy.

1. Murderous motivation

There are many speculations as to the motivations of mass shooters. One in particular is the fame and infamy aspect.

I think that yeah, some of these perps are motivated by fame. We don’t have a number. We really don’t. We have to be honest. We don’t have a number. But I think definitely that some of them do it for the fame. For the attention. And you know, lots of people go through life never getting any attention at all. People aren’t paying attention to them in any way. And they feel they’re a nobody. They’re a nothing. And then they see this event happen – some heinous event – and another person, sort of like them, they think, suddenly is being talked about all over the world. And that has a twisted appeal for some people. [1]
This profiling of mass shooters who are motivated by fame indicates several things. They are obviously not happy, because they are likely not receiving any attention. Nor are they comfortable for the same reason. The conclusion can only be that receiving attention is likely to improve their psychological well-being. In this case, this attention is the fame and infamy received from committing a mass shooting.

.
2. The AR-15 and mass shootings

The AR-15 has been the primary firearm of choice in several mass shootings. This includes the Sandy Hook, San Bernardino, Las Vegas, Sutherland Springs, Stoneman Douglas High School, and Port Arthur shootings. If indeed it is true that the act of committing mass shootings promotes their personal psychological well-being and that the scale of those mass shootings could've only occurred with that particular gun that they possessed at the time, it can only be concluded that the AR-15 used at the time has been needed and the events have shown that the AR-15 will continue to be needed in the future by aspiring mass shooters.

Round 2
Pro
Thanks, dustryder, for debating!

Let's start off with reviewing your definition of well-being

Definition: well-being,
the state of being comfortable, healthy, or happy.
I agree with your definition (not initially, but I found it to be correct after research).

And now, to your points.

1. Murderous motivation

There are many speculations as to the motivations of mass shooters. One in particular is the fame and infamy aspect.
First of all, as you said, this is speculation. Secondly, there is no evidence given supporting this speculation. Here is a quote from your source:

I think that yeah, some of these perps are motivated by fame. We don’t have a number. We really don’t. We have to be honest. We don’t have a number. But I think definitely that some of them do it for the fame. For the attention. And you know, lots of people go through life never getting any attention at all. People aren’t paying attention to them in any way. And they feel they’re a nobody. They’re a nothing. And then they see this event happen – some heinous event – and another person, sort of like them, they think, suddenly is being talked about all over the world. And that has a twisted appeal for some people.
I take great note that, while the source is reliable, this is clearly an opinion. The speaker makes this very clear by saying "I think." He goes on to say, "We don't have a number," which means the number could, in theory, be 0. You have failed to prove that anyone does this for fame.

As a sidenote, fame and infamy do not necessarily cause comfort, happiness, or healthiness.

This profiling of mass shooters who are motivated by fame indicates several things. They are obviously not happy, because they are likely not receiving any attention. Nor are they comfortable for the same reason. The conclusion can only be that receiving attention is likely to improve their psychological well-being. In this case, this attention is the fame and infamy received from committing a mass shooting.
Assuming there are mass shooters that are in it for fame/infamy in order to get attention (which there might not), mass shooting does not need to be the way in which the shooter obtains attention. Their need is attention, where it comes from does not define the need.
.
2. The AR-15 and mass shootings

The AR-15 has been the primary firearm of choice in several mass shootings. This includes the Sandy Hook, San Bernardino, Las Vegas, Sutherland Springs, Stoneman Douglas High School, and Port Arthur shootings. If indeed it is true that the act of committing mass shootings promotes their personal psychological well-being and that the scale of those mass shootings could've only occurred with that particular gun that they possessed at the time, it can only be concluded that the AR-15 used at the time has been needed and the events have shown that the AR-15 will continue to be needed in the future by aspiring mass shooters.
While I do not dispute the fact that the AR-15 was very often used in mass shootings, it can not be concluded that the AR-15 is needed. Other guns would actually be more efficient. The AR-15 is not fully automatic, nor does it cause massive explosions. Grenade launchers, bombs, and fully automatic weapons would be far more efficient in killing large numbers of people quickly. The AR-15 was not, is not, and never will be a need.

Con

1. Murderous motivation


First of all, as you said, this is speculation. Secondly, there is no evidence given supporting this speculation.


I take great note that, while the source is reliable, this is clearly an opinion. The speaker makes this very clear by saying "I think." He goes on to say, "We don't have a number," which means the number could, in theory, be 0. You have failed to prove that anyone does this for fame.
Please see further evidence below

"In this context, some rampage shooters succumb to “delusions of grandeur” and seek fame and glory through killing."[1]
"Researchers have also found that shooters are attracted to media’s ability to easily facilitate fame."[2]


As a sidenote, fame and infamy do not necessarily cause comfort, happiness, or healthiness.
The receiving of fame and infamy is the completion of a goal. Completing goals is linked to the releasing of dopamine which is a hormone released by the brain to induce happiness. [3][4] Hence it is quite clear that receiving fame and infamy in this context will literally cause happiness.



Assuming there are mass shooters that are in it for fame/infamy in order to get attention (which there might not), mass shooting does not need to be the way in which the shooter obtains attention. Their need is attention, where it comes from does not define the need.
If the needs of a mass shooter could be trivially met by receiving attention from any source, I propose that they would not have gone the route in which their future is extinguished and their hands are stained with a reprehensible act of humanity. It is logically sound that given two solutions that both produce the desired outcomes, that the outcome with the least impactful side-effects be the one chosen for. Additionally, the previous testimony is quite clear that it is the global infamy that garners the appeal, a requirement that only large shooting events can readily fill.


2. The AR-15 and mass shootings

While I do not dispute the fact that the AR-15 was very often used in mass shootings, it can not be concluded that the AR-15 is needed. Other guns would actually be more efficient. The AR-15 is not fully automatic, nor does it cause massive explosions. Grenade launchers, bombs, and fully automatic weapons would be far more efficient in killing large numbers of people quickly. The AR-15 was not, is not, and never will be a need.
The examples I have given before have demonstrated a need simply because in some of those cases, either the AR-15 was the only gun used, or the only gun available to inflict a mass number of causalities. These are explicit examples of at least one person only able to use an AR-15 to maximise desired outcome in any given scenario. While Pro makes the argument that other armaments could've been more useful or equivalent in use for the given situations, it is clear that such armaments were not used in these given scenarios and only the gun used and available at the time (the AR-15) would've sufficed, hence indicating need.


Round 3
Pro
Forfeited
Con
Extend
Round 4
Pro
Forfeited
Con
Waive