Instigator / Pro

America is evil


The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

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After 3 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

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Last updated date
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Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
Voting period
One week
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Multiple criterions
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Round 1
For the sake of making sure to follow any Debate guidelines, and to ensure some fairness in the case my opponent is forfeiting this one round, I will use the first round for acceptance. However, I note that in a statement like "America is evil", burden of proof is on the one who tries to prove the question, or our mutual enemy Pro.

Round 2
America is evil both in it's present day actions, it's actions in the past, and the ideology it is based on.
America in the context I am using is the institution itself and it's ideological foundation, not "the people" per se. America is a highly Capitalist country, to the extent that money controls the government and business regulates the government rather than the government regulating business or the economy. There are bankers, and robber barons (in the industrial age sense, not feudalistic robber barons) who control the government itself and manipulate which politicians are in office. That being said, virtually all politicians in the US are special interest puppets by trade, because profit is the incentive for everything in such a society. 
To fully understand this, you must understand what America truly is. America is the brain child of wealthy men who all wanted to be wealthier but were tightly restricted by the confines of feudalism and monarchy. Just as the robber barons (this time in a feudal sense) rebelled against the king to secure their own rights and power, so did the "founding robber barons" (this time in both senses simultaneously) as what they truly wanted at the end of the day was economic freedom and rights for white, wealthy and landed men such as themselves. Just as the Magna Carta was a step above the previous monarchic paradigm, Capitalism and the US constitution/bill of rights was a step above feudalism, which amounted to more than just more money for landed white men, but it is important to note that the ideological foundation of America is one of self interest for an aristocratic wealthy class. Ultimately, Americanism as an ideology is built on greed more so than freedom or a government "by the people, for the people" and the institution that is America operates as a corporation rather than a government.

SOURCES/RESOURCES (Just for the record this article starts out with a very good point but much of it I don't agree with when it comes to the extent to which blacks are still oppressed) (A presentation by Stefan Molyneux about the true nature of George Washington, be warned it's long but worth it if you want to see the extent of scumbaggery attributable to this "great" man.)


Making money mustn't mean malicious murder. America is a nation of opportunity, compassion, and hope; although America made mistakes like all countries did, America is where people can make up for their mistakes and crimes.

Our opponent argues that America is not just morally ambiguous, but evil. This means that Pro must prove such a sentiment that the American Nation is evil, or devoid of any good. Thusly, all that Con needs to do to win is prove America has some good, through there will be a crossing of borders as it will be proved that America actually is devoid of more bad and good. Pro calls America evil due to its "institution and ideological foundation." There isn't any elaboration of the first part, and anyhow, the sentence is so grammatically incorrect that there can't be a valid reading until Pro clarifies. Is Pro referring to every institution America, from NASA to the Coast Guard? NASA has done much good to the world, with their work enriching infant nutrition and providing amputees new limbs (1). By the premise of this question, this should be enough to win the debate, but to be safe we shall dispel every Pro myth and counter with our own evidence.

Ideological Foundation

Pro says that "America is the brain child of wealthy men who all wanted to be wealthier but were tightly restricted by the confines of feudalism and monarchy." Ignoring that the Feudal Age ended some two centuries ago before the American Revolution (2), the vast majority of American rebels either immigrated or had ancestors immigrate via poorer backgrounds, which is why indentured servants and the headright system existed (3). In New England commercial motives weren't even the predominating reason for immigration. Although the Founding Fathers were quite wealthy, it was not a crime to have money. If anything, the founding fathers of the nation paid huge economic prices to establish a new America, proving there to be a different motive than wealth for independence. John Greene, a respected historian more well known than any theorist Pro brings up, notes that taxes actually increased after the war for independence (4). Yale P.HD and former Stanford professor Justin du Rivage says that instead of revolting for economic reasons, "colonists revolted against an empire whose leaders made no secret of their commitment to taxes and trade regulations that promised to enrich a small elite while harming colonists’ well-being. Such policies would reduce their economy to the same impoverished condition as Ireland and India [...]" (5). Robert Morris even spent his fortune paying continental soldiers, to die off in a debtor's prison, which is reflective of a motive other than striking it rich. The founding father's rebelled with the support that doubled the numbers of loyalists for a different reason: "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" (6). This and not making Monticello profitable did Jefferson work on day and night. Washington did not cross an icy Delaware River to earn money if he could have been relaxing in his Virginia Estates, paying little taxes to the king. Pro is correct that the founding fathers were fighting to become more free; every free person in America was going to be more free in the new nation. America was founded so people can live, live so in freedom, and try to attain happiness in that life. Pro concedes the most defensible point against the Revolution, saying that the Constitution "amounted to more than just more money for landed white men", but the next point that "it is important to note that the ideological foundation of America is one of self interest for an aristocratic wealthy class" is less defensible. The Bill of Rights, a huge ideological foundation of America, had Amendments giving the poor right to a lawyer in trial, an unprecedented idea that beat the British-Massachusetts Bay Salem Witch Trials. The Declaration of Independence is a document of equality for opportunity, where there is an argument that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" (4). There is no room to dobout that the Government sought after here is democratic, not aristocratic. Driving the true essence of America home is easier because Pro limited this debate to ideology, meaning that the implementation isn't to be brought up. Americanism as an ideology was based on the right to live, live free, and live happy; it is contradictory of empirical historical data to claim greed was the motivator for American Independence.

Affirmative Defense

Yet suppose that America was founded on a concept of greed. Does this mean America is evil? The answer is still no, because Americanism has evolved. Whatever Americanism was founded on isn't what drives people to succeed in the world's richest and most powerful country. People do not come to America dreaming of exploiting the poor and perpetuating poverty; on the country, America is opportunity to end that poverty. Ronald Reagan spoke of an American Dream that I have made for when he said "We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are not heroes, they just don't know where to look. You can see heroes every day going in and out of factory gates. Others, a handful in number, produce enough food to feed all of us and then the world beyond. You meet heroes across a counter, and they're on both sides of that counter. There are entrepreneurs with faith in themselves and faith in an idea who create new jobs, new wealth and opportunity. They're individuals and families whose taxes support the government and whose voluntary gifts support church, charity, culture, art, and education. Their patriotism is quiet, but deep. Their values sustain our national life." (7) He spoke these words hundreds of years after the founding fathers, which not only helps in the initial case because it proves that the fathers had morally righteous motives, but also proves the fact that even if the fathers were elitist, Modern Day America and Americanism is not so. Modern day America takes pride in defeating slavery and the Nazis, and replacing it with hope, chance, and control. Is Jamie Lannister evil because he pushed a child in season 1 of Game of Thrones , or benevolent due to his redemption since then?


Our enemy tried to exclude the American people from Americanism. This is a folly that makes no sense in the context of the debate, because Pro brought up men like Washington and themes like Government first. Pro cannot decry some Americans and evil and demand others not be brought up. In any case, "America is evil" requires Americans to be brought up, because American People make America what it is. Americans, on the whole, have a great culture, are passionate about they friends and partners (8), and value both education and hard work mores than average (9). America is the world's leader in foreign aid (10), and glaringly, charity (11). Consider the Americans, individual and government who are spreading the American Way - the way of opportunity and good charity, for all the world.

Round 3
With a two round forfeit by con, we herby extend our points and declare Con didn't respond to our counterarguments. Vote Pro.