God of the Bible is not omnipotent
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After 5 votes and with 13 points ahead, the winner is...
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I will sit by and see you destroying yourself.
It is hard to come up with a precise definition, but this definition is good, and I won’t be abusing it. The concept of an all knowing, all powerful and omnipresent God is not true, and not a biblical concept.1. God is not all knowingGenesis 11:4 -9 – Tower of Babel;: God “comes down” to see what the people are up to.
- Genesis 6:6 – And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. An omniscient LORD would have no reason to repent for he would have known in advance how his creations would turn out.
- Genesis 18:20-21 – “Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.””2. god is not all powerful.In Genesis 32, some random Jew gets challenged by God to a fist fight, and as bad as jews are at fighting the random Jew (Jacob) still managed to pretty much whip God’s ass.3. God is not omnipresent, In the Garden of Eden he has no clue where adam and eve are and have to call out to them, only to find them hiding and he got pissed that they were covered and he could not see their genitals. Genesis 3:8-13
This is written by my opponent herself, guys. Source:
I extend. If my opponent forfeits again, I will go on full power even though my opponent didn't say a thing.
Expect my opponent's answer. Been it for 2 rounds already.
The word omnipotence is important to get right for this debate. This way we know what we are actually debating. To determine what definition of omnipotent means we need to try and go as close to the original meaning of the word as possible, since the bible is a very old book.
Here is the definition I pulled form https://www.lexico.com/definition/omnipotent
Omnipotent- "Having great power and influence.
‘an omnipotent sovereign'
The word's first uses, have the word being used to describe kings who have great power over their dominion or it is often used to describe the powers of warlords. The bible refers to god as the most high several times and as the God of all Gods. This certainly qualifies as omnipotent for this debate, and I should win based on that alone, but I will proceed.
We can see here it does not neccessarily mean being able to do anything, it merely means great power.
Jacob wrestles with God
The story of Jacob wrestling with God can be found here https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+32%3A22-32&version=NIV
Jacob heas metaphorically been wrestling with God his whole life. He grabbed onto his brother's heel when his brother went to exit the womb, so he could try to become first born. Jacob pretended to be his brother Esau when his father died to steal his blessing, and when we come to the point in the story where Jacob wrestles with God, he is still fighting god trying to force his hand by coming "home" early.
God can have a flare for the dramatic sometimes, so he comes down to Earth in human form and wrestls with Jacob for an entire night. Probably over the course of 8 hours. This real wrestling match was to let Jacob physically feel what he has been doing in a metaphorical sense his entire life. When morning came, god decided to end the charade, by merely touching Jacob's leg and giving him a permanent disability making it difficult for him to walk his entire life.
We also have God commanding Jacob to change his name to Israel. Israel would father the nation of Israel. This wrestling match was also symbolic of the future the Jews would have wrestling with God as well. The Jews would continually challenge or abandon their faith in god when convenient. One time in the desert for example, God was literally raining food down on them every day. This food was called manna, and it is described as very delicious and filling, but because the Jews despite being personally blessed with miracles such as this would still doubt God, and were in fact punished for hoarding God's manna against his commands.
Many examples of the faithlessness of the Jews are repeated through the old and new testament of the bible. The story of Jacob does not disprove god's omnipotence. We have god toying with Jacob and then merely touching his hip to disable him for life/
My opponent has blatantly plagiarized his entire argument from me, please award me conduct points on top of my other points
My opponents other arguments address God's lack of omniscience and omnipresence, but neither quality has anything at all to do with omnipotence and should be disregarded as irrelevant. Thanks for reading this debate and please vote con
PlagiarismMy opponent has blatantly plagiarized his entire argument from me, please award me conduct points on top of my other points
Objection: My opponent has forfeited one last round before, so that makes the decision of deducting my conduct points not absolutely justified.
Here is the definition I pulled form https://www.lexico.com/definition/omnipotentOmnipotent- "Having great power and influence.‘an omnipotent sovereign'
That is not the definition of omnipotent. I understand that I didn't define it, but your sources disprove your definition since it is a BRANCH of the original definition. The original definition of Omnipotence, according to your site, is:
(of a deity) having unlimited power.‘God is described as omnipotent and benevolent’
I have other sites:
Omnipotence is the quality of having unlimited power.
OmnipotenceA is the power to do anything. This power, if a being had it, would include the capacity to do all logically possible acts, such as create and destroy material objects, do math problems, and so on. This power would also include the capacity to do logically impossible acts such as create a square circle, or a married bachelor, cause 2 + 2 = 5, avoid unavoidable occurrences, and so on.
OmnipotenceLP is the power to do anything that is logically possible. This power, if a being had it, would include the capacity to do any act that does not generate a logically contradictory state of affairs. So this being could create a world that has free rational beings in it, but it could not create a world that both has free, rational beings in it and that is a void world with nothing in it.
This source also favors my argument. If you want to win, first answer this paragraph.
- Suppose God can do everything that is possible, including the ones that humans cannot comprehend, then give me an image of a square circle, a sample of a stone too heavy to be lifted by God, and a genius that can't think, etc. I think I figured that you will respond in terms such as, "God can do these things, you just can't comprehend it". Well, what about letting God give me unparalleled amounts of intelligence so I can comprehend the proof of a triangle with 16 sides? If God can't, he can't. I thought about this for about 100 times and I still can't picture what a 16-sided triangle is, so God either isn't omnipotent, or he doesn't like to answer me. If it is the former, then I win. If it is the latter, which is based on the assumption that God is still omnipotent, then you can't prove it either because you don't have a picture of a square circle, and you can only have faith and unreliable evidence(which is the bible) that God is omnipotent.
- This is also that Omnipotence(LP) is not fully omnipotent, so in Omnipotence LP god cannot create a square that has 8 angles, which means Omnipotence LP is not fully omnipotent.
Also, you have failed to respond to some of your own quotes.
This would mean that your entire argument is basically false since it contradicts with the global understanding of the term and even the site of definition from your choice.
Also, Give me justifications for why God decided to do(or not do) these things.
- Eliminate all evil on the planet
- Make humans write the bible instead of writing it itself
- Use Jesus as messenger instead of penetrating the words into everyone's brain, evolving generations after generations
- Require people to seek God and obey its customs instead of training these habits into instincts and making every single person believe that he is the true God automatically instead of manually
- Letting atheism exist
You can't prove those. These are things that even a god in Omnipotent LP can do.
That is, if God is omnipotentA, then we can have no hope of forming any idea of him, finding grounds for believing in him, understanding anything about him, or forming any kind of relationship with him.
If God in terms of Omnipotent A exists, then we won't see him as a being. We will see him as law and order itself.
I rest my case, vote PRO!