Instigator / Pro
7
1810
rating
49
debates
100.0%
won
Topic
#2397

Present proof that Adolf Hitler was a "racist"

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
0
Better sources
2
0
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...

Barney
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
2
Time for argument
One day
Max argument characters
6,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
2
1483
rating
327
debates
40.21%
won
Description

This was inspired by the denial of Trump being racist:
https://www.debateart.com/debates/2376-present-proof-that-donald-j-trump-is-a-racist

By such a standard, likewise Hitler would be incapable of racism.

DEFINITIONS
Merriam-Webster defines the following:
Race is “any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry”
Racism is “a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race” also: “behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief”
Racialism is synonymous with racism, merely abridging it to “a theory that race determines human traits and capacities”
Racist is another form of the word racism, allowing for adjective use but may still be presented as a noun.

You call it denial. I call it not proving anything . So even steven.

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@Mall

That you are either denying the holocaust, or denying that it is evidence to suggest racism, is very informative about you.

I yet stand not convinced of any purported evidence. Maybe next time, same place, same channel, I'll stay tuned.

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@Mall

It's in the debate tab. I further make it really easy by putting preplies under the same headings as the things you addressed.

It's a no brainer. How can you argue a point when you don't see where the rebuttal is?

Who taught you guys to make an argument even when you don't know where to make it at?

That conventional mind, it's the darnest thing.

Side note: The disclaimer in each debate I'm in covers what win/lose is really all about.
A separation between that and an echo chamber.

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@Mall

Alright, then you’ll keep losing debates like this the same way. If you’re good with that, then hey, I won’t stop you.

Remember guys, you make have to continue with the questions until understanding is reached. If you don't reach it, you'll have to stay in the question mode. That's just the way that is.

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

What is your opinion of Trump's eugenics speech in Minnesota?

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@whiteflame

By the way, thank you for voting.

I of course love the final line of your vote:
> And finally... "Mr. Hitler"... really?

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@Mall

Questioning basic suppositions we make in debate is fine, but there’s a format for doing that and it’s not just putting out a series of questions. Questions alone do nothing for you in a debate. You need to take your view that your opponent is making fundamentally flawed assumptions and use it to challenge their mindset directly, rather than just pose questions. It’s called a Kritik, and it’s a lot more involved than what you’ve been trying to do. If you’re really this focused on challenging your opponent’s assumptions rather than responding directly to their arguments, I urge you to read up on the tactic. Here’s a pretty basic rundown: https://mbhsdebate.wixsite.com/debate/kritik

For those of you saying what's with all the questions, it goes back to what I offer in every debate challenge.

In order to argue, I have to ask for an explanation, clarity and focus. I have to know what the other is talking about. See I don't assume anything, try to get an implication out of something, etc.

I don't know why folks expect me to interact blindly as I'm to be not sure of what is being said.
Just the way of common sense.

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

You might enjoy reading this one. It is basically a continuation to a previous one to which you were commenting. While setting a very clear and simple standard for racism (between the common English definitions, and the Ryan Reynolds speech), it also highlights some paths to avoid going down.

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@Mall

Seriously, dude, if you're going to learn anything from these two debates learn this: questions aren't arguments. You don't give yourself offense by introducing doubt, and no matter how well phrased a question is, it's not going to accomplish anything more than minor mitigation. It's a debate. Present arguments.

Mall: why are we still here? Just to survive?

Thanks guys. Trying to not comment much, but this comment section is too good to not read!

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@Mharman

Actually no. We are not talking about reductio ad Hitlerum, because we are talking about Hitler himself, not something Hitler has done to imply that others that has done this is racist.

reducto ad Hitlerum

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@BearMan

And, though I don't want to get into it too deeply so as not to influence the debaters, the view that being Jewish is a race was a central part of Hitler's efforts. You can argue that being anti-semetic isn't inherently racist, but Hitler's own efforts to classify Jews in this manner simply sets him (and, unfortunately, many others) apart from what should be basic knowledge.

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@BearMan

Also, keep in mind our distinctions in race are very arbitrary.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/racism

"Other forms of bigotry, intolerance, and xenophobia, such as anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, are often considered to be rooted in racism.

The word racist can be used as a noun meaning a racist person or as an adjective meaning “of or promoting racism,” as in racist ideology or racist comments.

What is race?

To fully define racism, we have to define race. Throughout history, the word race has commonly been used to refer to a classification of humans based on various physical characteristics, especially skin color, facial form, and eye shape. But sorting people into such races is truly arbitrary—they’re not based on meaningful scientific differences (like, for example, those used to determine legitimate scientific classifications such as species and genus)."

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@MisterChris

I see what you're saying. Racism is a loosely defined term.

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@BearMan

What something is "technically defined as" in social science has nothing to do with how it is USED.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
https://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CERD.aspx

According to Oxford: "Oxford’s English dictionaries are widely regarded as the world’s most authoritative sources on current English."

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/racism

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@whiteflame

I mean, again a religion is not a race. Hitler didn't really care about the race of the Jewish people, he just wanted them to be rid of because of his sick agenda.

Its not out of the question that he worshiped the Aryan "race" more than any other races, and seeked to destroy all the others.

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@BearMan

Alright, but the question of whether his views on Jews also make him racist is also relevant.

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@whiteflame

I never said that Hitler wasn't racist. The debate is fine as is.

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@BearMan

I agree that being Jewish isn’t a race. That being said, there are Jewish groups that are racially distinct from others. Ashkenazi and Sephardi are two such subsets, and they are racial groups. So it’s important to distinguish them from Judaism as a whole, but the debate is still relevant.

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@MisterChris

Where? All the sources I found agreed with my definition. (For context: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=racism&t=opera&ia=definition)

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@BearMan

Ok. Oxford says the opposite:
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."

Wikipedia finds:
"While the concepts of race and ethnicity are considered to be separate in contemporary social science, the two terms have a long history of equivalence in popular usage and older social science literature. "Ethnicity" is often used in a sense close to one traditionally attributed to "race": the division of human groups based on qualities assumed to be essential or innate to the group (e.g. shared ancestry or shared behavior). Therefore, racism and racial discrimination are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of whether these differences are described as racial. According to a United Nations convention on racial discrimination, there is no distinction between the terms "racial" and "ethnic" discrimination."

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@MisterChris

Have to disagree:"a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

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@BearMan

but he still stimulates white supremacy though.

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@BearMan

Racism encompasses hatred of ethnic groups

Being Jewish isn't a race

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@Intelligence_06

We'll see.

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@MisterChris

Using my school's way of speaking: I can present proof that Adolf Hitler is racist.

Pro just needs to present evidence and justify them. Again, I think those are plenty.

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@Intelligence_06

I think

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@Intelligence_06

PRO is arguing that Hitler was NOT racist as a joke.

I think I agree with Pro. I don't know how Con can even win.

I'll humor you. I'm not here to disprove or prove anything except proving whether your statements hold up .