Instigator / Pro
4
1627
rating
37
debates
66.22%
won
Topic
#2572

GAUNTLET (R2) RESOLVED: Public School Students should be Required to Wear Uniforms in the US

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Ayyantu
Judges
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
117 debates / 397 votes
No vote
MisterChris's avatar
MisterChris
45 debates / 106 votes
Voted
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
15,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Judges
Contender / Con
7
1487
rating
4
debates
62.5%
won
Description

BOP is shared.
Please No Solipsism.
Please No Kritiks.

I look forward to a lively debate.

I'm sure I'm forgetting to put something in this description

#50

Honestly I was pretty unimpressed by the RFD as well... Until I noticed the Google doc. After I noticed and skimmed through the doc I felt a lot better about it and look forward to seeing the one for my debate with the contender.

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@Ayyantu

Out of curiosity, in general what do you dislike about the vote in your favor?

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@Ayyantu

did you mis-tag me and my "poor RFD"? I didn't vote at all. I was giving my personal opinion. If you'd like, you can invite Ragnar instead next time as a voter.

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@Sum1hugme

No problem!

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@MisterChris

Thank you for your thoughtful vote

Bad ops

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@Ayyantu

Seriously, dude, you won. MisterChris is going to be voting on future debates in this tournament. Why are you actively trying to antagonize him when he voted for you?

why do I even bother?

the gall of this dude.

Terrible RFD. But whatever.

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@Ayyantu

Well, congrats to Ayyantu. Looks like you'll be moving on up the tower. Looks like you'll be facing down Discipulus_Didicit next round.

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@Sum1hugme
@Ayyantu

That was a tough RFD to render. This was very close. I apologize if I mixed up PRO and CON by the end there... my brain is fried

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@seldiora

Good to see someone's picking up the strategies. Impact calculus should be pretty common across debates, so yeah, pretty great that Ayyantu's doing it.

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@seldiora

I had the rebuttals in my mind but ya know, can't always post in 3 days

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@Sum1hugme
@Ayyantu

personal thoughts: sum1 showed there was at least some correlation, but didn't truly link it to cause and effect, especially with Con's strong academic research said to be superior throughout the debate. The impacts are also very vague as Con notes in an almost Whiteflame-like way. Sum1 needs to show significant and strong reasoning for school uniform enforcement, especially compared to "can or can choose not to, your choice". Sum1 could've made the point that letting people choose is counter-intuitive as choosing the uniform could lead to even more bullying as you infer your are poor, or a goody two shoes who wants to wear the uniform. But he didn't. Round 4 could've been crucial to turn this debate around, but sadly sum1 didn't use it. So with only the three rounds in place, Con demonstrated that US's freedom of expression is clearly violated and not truly contested. Sum1 could've mentioned how wristbands, necklace, earrings, etc. could still allow students to express themselves. He failed to do so. There are a lot of really good pro arguments but sum1 did not thoroughly express them all. Con put a lot of doubt in the ones that sum1 made.

Extra feedback: If you cannot find impact, Pro, try evaluating more on the trustworthiness of the studies, especially since it's Kenya vs an overarching view. Stand your ground with extra logic if you cannot find the studies that show the reasons why uniforms enforce discipline. Link it to how work expects a professional standard which is upheld by the uniforms, and can enforce a better environment. Link it to how it allows students to be more organized with their closet and fully embody the idea of schools' teaching environment. In addition, variations of the uniform can solve a lot of the problems with expression that con point out.

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@Sum1hugme

Midway through, vote coming soon

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@MisterChris

just reminding you. there's only six hours left

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@MisterChris

It's a big back and forth, wonder if you came to the same conclusion I did

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@That1User

Just skimming, looks like it could go either way... I'll have to look at this more in depth.

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@MisterChris

Wonder where this vote is going to land

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@Sum1hugme
@Ayyantu

I will be voting over the weekend.

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@MisterChris

Think it's you since you're here now

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@Discipulus_Didicit

Nah, Seldiora decided one person should vote per debate to reduce the chances of tie.

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@MisterChris

uhhh... both of you?

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@Discipulus_Didicit

lol oop

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@oromagi
@seldiora

which one of us was supposed to vote on this one again?

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@oromagi
@MisterChris

Vote, nerds.

My main question is who would pay for millions of uniforms in various sizes,(probably multiple for each student so they didn't wear the same thing everyday). The US government already has a budget problem, and people don't want to pay more taxes

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@seldiora

lol, did i cut it close enough for ya?

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@Sum1hugme

don't die on me now!

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@seldiora

I haven’t given his points a thorough read yet, but he does look strong. Doppelgänger, eh? Have to see about that.

the more I read Ayyantu's debates the more I feel she is a doppelganger of Whiteflame.

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@Intelligence_06

Patience

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@Intelligence_06

I'm trying to go fast.

Hurry up. If you don't get to finish I will probably forfeit most of the rounds on my turn.

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@Ayyantu

Only one I could find:

https://www.debate.org/debates/School-uniforms-should-be-required/1/

Where is this Roy debate?

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@seldiora

Not sure if you’re looking at a different debate than I am, but the one I found with Roy did not have unassailable arguments. I’ve seen very few debates where the arguments were so good that finding the chinks in the armor was incredibly difficult, and these points really aren’t that strong. Not even really up to Roy’s standards.

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@seldiora

Not sure how RoyLatham’s argument is so airtight (haven’t looked at it in a while), but even if it is, these are two different debaters. I don’t think we should assume that Sum1’s arguments will resemble his, and even if they do, that Ayyantu can’t effectively handle them.

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@whiteflame

I've read over Roy's argument for pro and I feel Con should be near impossible to win. Of course, Raisor could do it, but again, not even Orogami stands a chance against Raisor in any topic that's not entertainment.

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@Sum1hugme
@Ayyantu

I’m sure you’ll manage just fine. It’s a well trod topic with a lot of room for diverse arguments on both sides, depending on where you put the focus.

Thanks guys for taking off all the pressure of crafting a good argument

I am confused why people are saying this is so strongly pro-sided, there must be some common argument about this topic that I am not aware of. Guess I will have to read the debate to see.

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@whiteflame
@seldiora

Yeah I chose this topic expressly because it's a super fair topic that can have reasonable arguments on both sides

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@seldiora

...honestly, I don’t know what you’re talking about. This is very winnable for Con. I’d personally prefer to debate Con, though I think Pro’s arguments are a little easier.

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@seldiora

It's the hardness that makes it great. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

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@seldiora

Unless the other side is extremely TUF.

Lol... Why you want me to lose?

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@Sum1hugme

hahaha.... nicely chosen. It is impossible for Ayyantu to win this one.