Instigator / Pro
4
1488
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Topic

God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Sprit are Separate Beings

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
0
9
Sources points
2
6
Spelling and grammar points
1
3
Conduct points
1
3

With 3 votes and 17 points ahead, the winner is ...

Fruit_Inspector
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Religion
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
9,000
Contender / Con
21
1643
rating
17
debates
76.47%
won
Description
~ 725 / 5,000

Pro argues the idea of the trinity is not in line with the Christian Bible, while con argues it is in line.

Rules:
1) You may use outside sources (such as commentaries, analyses etc.) to form your argument and find bible references ONLY. They are not to be cited or included as part of satisfying the BOP.
2) Because the idea of the trinity is a Christian belief, then this debate will only allow both testaments of the Christian bible, specifically the Authorized AKA King James version since it is easily accessible and regarded widely as one of the most correctly translated.
3) The burden of proof lies equally on both sides.

I look forward to this my first debate, and hearing what my opponent thinks on this matter.

Round 1
Pro
Forfeited
Con
I believe that a trinitarian God is the only conclusion one can reasonably have when trying to discern the nature of God from the Bible. This is drawn from the plain teaching as I will show here. There are three main points that make up the doctrine of the Trinity:

1. Christianity is Monotheistic
Deuteronomy 6:4 states, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" which was echoed by Jesus in Mark 12:29.

The song that Moses taught Israel states, "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me" (Deut. 32:39). We know that it was God Himself who gave these words based on Deuteronomy 31:15-19, and He is the one that the song is referring to.

I will include one more example from Paul, "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God" (1 Cor. 8:4-6). Paul is making it clear that though idols - or false gods - are perceived as gods and called gods, they are actually nothing because there is only one true God.

2. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are Three Distinct Persons
Based on the debate topic, it appears that there is no question that some distinction exists between these three. Where we will then disagree is whether these are three separate beings or three distinct persons in one being. "Person" is a word used to show that the distinction between the three members does not mean they are separate individuals but members of the same being - God. I will address this disagreement more later.

3. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all Equally and Fully God
The Bible makes reference to all three persons as God.

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:2). The Father is clearly referred to as God and is distinguished from Jesus the Son.

"For in [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:9). Here, Jesus is not only referred to as God, but He is also shown to be fully God. It should also be noted that the King James Version uses the term "Godhead" which is a trinitarian term.

"But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God" (Acts 5:3-4). Notice that Peter accuses Ananias of lying to the Holy Spirit, and then proceeds to equate this with lying to God.

The Problem with Denying the Trinity
Here is a syllogism that shows the logical conclusion of the doctrine of the Trinity:

  • The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all distinctly identified as God in the Bible
  • The Bible claims there is only one God (monotheism)
  • Therefore, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God

Since my opponent does not seem to be arguing for modalism in which there is absolutely no distinction at all between the Father, Son, and Spirit, that essentially leaves three options:

  • One can agree that the Bible teaches monotheism, but then it must be shown that two of the three persons (Father, Son, and Spirit) are not actually God. Monotheism does not allow for more than one being who is God.
  • One can agree that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all God, but then it must be shown that the Bible does not actually teach monotheism.
  • Lastly, one could reject both monotheism and the deity of Father, Son, and Spirit. But that just seems silly.
Round 2
Pro
Forfeited
Con
I do hope my opponent returns for the last two rounds. Even if the previous forfeitures result in a victory for me, I think this would still be an interesting discussion. Namely, I would like to hear which position is being purported to be true - either polytheism, or a denial of the deity of two members of the Godhead. For clarity, I will restate the core points of my argument:

  • The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all distinctly identified as God in the Bible
  • The Bible claims there is only one God (monotheism)
  • Therefore, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God
Round 3
Pro
Forfeited
Con
There is still one round left to hear a case in favor of the resolution...
Round 4
Pro
Forfeited
Con
This is certainly a bold strategy Bobo. Let's see what the voters decide.