Instigator / Pro
7
1500
rating
9
debates
33.33%
won
Topic

(Revival/Reboot) Minecraft Steve could most likely defeat the U.S military in a military campaign.

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
3
0
Sources points
2
2
Spelling and grammar points
1
1
Conduct points
1
1

With 1 vote and 3 points ahead, the winner is ...

ComputerNerd
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Publication date
Last update date
Category
Games
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Four points
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Rated
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10,000
Contender / Con
4
1690
rating
87
debates
73.56%
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Description
~ 1,575 / 5,000

Rules:
1. No argument may be made eliminating the possibility that Steve exists.
2. No argument may be made disregarding the resolution.
3. No Kritiks.
4. A violation of rules 1-3 will result in a conduct loss.
5. No forfeiting.
6. Definitions are to be accepted. However, if necessary, you are permitted to include new definitions.

Context:
Minecraft Steve is the default player from the popular game "Minecraft." Due to his prowess and physical strength, Steve would defeat the U.S military easily. The battle ground is the U.S.A. Steve has spawned in Alaska and is making his way to the U.S to take it over. The U.S has 1 week to prepare. For the sake of fairness, Steve has full access to the creative MENU (Anything he wants from Minecraft he can obtain, but he's still killable)but cannot use anything involving commands or mods.

Definitions:
MInecraft Steve: Steve (mononymous) is the main protagonist to the popular sandbox game, Minecraft.
U.S: The U.S. is a country of 50 states covering a vast swath of North America, with Alaska in the northwest and Hawaii extending the nation’s presence into the Pacific Ocean.
Military: relating to or characteristic of soldiers or armed forces.
more likely: more likely than not
defeat: win a victory over (someone) in a battle or other contest; overcome or beat.

Roles:
PRO: Minecraft Steve could most likely defeat the U.S military in a military campaign.
CON: The U.S Military could most likely defeat Minecraft Steve in a military campaign.

Topic proposed by Crocodile on July 14 2020, accepted by Intelligence_06.

Round 1
Pro
TOPIC: Minecraft Steve could most likely defeat the U.S Military in a military campaign. 
Position: PRO

BOP is equal.

Definitions:
MInecraft Steve: Steve (mononymous) is the main protagonist to the popular sandbox game, Minecraft. [1]
U.S: The U.S. is a country of 50 states covering a vast swath of North America, with Alaska in the northwest and Hawaii extending the nation’s presence into the Pacific Ocean. [2]
Military: relating to or characteristic of soldiers or armed forces. [3]
more likely: more likely than not
defeat: win a victory over (someone) in a battle or other contest; overcome or beat. [4]

Context:
Minecraft Steve is the default player from the popular game "Minecraft." Due to his prowess and physical strength, Steve would defeat the U.S military easily. The battle ground is the U.S.A. Steve has spawned in Alaska and is making his way to the U.S to take it over. The U.S has 1 week to prepare. For the sake of fairness, Steve has full access to the creative MENU (Anything he wants from Minecraft he can obtain, but he's still killable)but cannot use anything involving commands or mods.

A note on damage:
For the sake of this debate, Minecraft Steve can survive 3 shots with a gun. Therefore we can interpret that a gun does 3.5 hearts of damage. A Golden Apple heals 4 hearts per apple, and a Enchanted Golden apple makes you virtually immune to gunshots. As well as this, diamond armor with Protection IV + Enchanted Golden Apple should make you bulletproof. However, the U.S has more than bullets.

Arguments:
  • Unlimited Access to the Creative Menu
Steve can take anything he wants from there, therefore he has an unlimited supply of every conceivable resource: Potions of Healing, Golden Apples, and Blocks. A word on those, for this debate, we will assume that when Steve places a block, it obeys the laws of physics and can be broken. Note that this is fair, since there are no unbreakable blocks in Minecraft. Anyways with this power, Steve becomes unkillable, as he can always spawn in more resources.
  • The problem with bombs
I'm sure PRO is thinking he could bomb Steve with a bomb. However, if we take into account that Steve has unlimited ender pearls, elytras and potions, Steve could just run away from the bomb instantly.
  • Steve's Strength
To take a quote from Crocodile: 
But, we're not done yet. Steve's inventory enables him to hold 37 slots (left hand included). Multiplying everything together, you get an estimated lift strength of 11 million tons, or 22 billion pounds. He's 100 million times stronger than Anderson Silva.

32 billion pounds per square inch. He can literally smash a car with those hands. One flick, and you're dead. In fact, in creative mode, he can break it instantly. He can kill you instantly

A average boxer punches between 500-1000 psi. That's nothing. Nothing compared to 32 billion pounds psi.

You're dead no matter the strength. He can punch through the planet.
As long as he controls himself, he should be able to destroy any tank, soldier or aerial form of transportation the U.S could send at him. If they make a blockade, he could punch through it easily. Mountain? One flick of his fingers, and it's GONE. Not to mention, he has very good stamina. 

Steve needs to eat every few minutes, but if he uses an elytra, he can travel hundreds of miles a minute, without breaking a sweat. 

Combat:
As we discussed, Steve is extremely powerful, but let's apply some combat uses. Here's a list of U.S Military Strategies. You are welcome to provide any one of these, and I will prove why it would prove ineffective.  

A firework is extremely dangerous:
On this link, you can find examples of people dying from a firework to the face. 

Did you know what Steve can shoot a firework from a crossbow in 0.5 seconds?

While flying?

Final Note:
Don't really have that much to say, think it's pretty obvious of Steve's power. So, I will respond to Intelligence's points in R2.
Con
Framework(?)
  • Steve has access to the creative menu
    • BUT Steve can't utilize command blocks, so this is ruled out
  • Steve will have normal health, as that of a survival game, and golden apple health boosts, or potions, still apply here.
    • All things Steve gets from his creative menu should be able to be consumed or damaged according to survival standards
From what I am understanding from the debate, these are true.

Method #1: M134 Minigun and other Fast projectiles

The M134 Minigun, which was developed by the US military in the 1960s and still existing today, can fire up to 6000 rounds a minute, or 100 bullets a second[1]. What does that mean? ONE SINGLE M134 minigun can kill Steve over 20 times in a second, if it is running at peak condition. I do not think Steve can drink potions enough to regenerate over 20 times a second, or to eat enough golden apples to prevent himself from dying.

Laws of Physics of the Real World should apply here

It is simple. Instead of Steve spawning in any specific seed, he spawns in Alaska, US. The world did not choose him, he chose this world. In this case, he should be the one that obeys the world's laws of physics and Alaska and the US should not need to change how physics work in order to make a "fair fight", not that it is possible or necessary. 

As a result, anything Steve grabs in his hand should be able to be knocked down and so that they cease to function, as long as they are in Steve's hand. We obviously know Steve has superhuman hand strength, and while we may not have the ability of making him loosen his fist of neutron star material, we can simply knock them off. If the shield he holds in his hands are broken, then projectile momentum could easily pierce through Steve, in which his armor does not cover his entire body, especially his face or nape, of which both are very critical points[2]. Not saying that gunners could and should be staged at all radial position easily, and Steve possibly could be dead with any one of them, let alone all of them trained soldiers.

Method #2: Making Steve lay down

As with my conversation with Crocodile more than a year ago, Steve simply do not have the moveset to get up from laying down stomachfirst. One simple bullet with well timing and position does the job since he cannot get up, and no matter what he does the most helpful he can do is just to eat regeneration material and do not dig down to his own demise.

Method #3: Atomic Bombs

OK, Does Steve have anything against radiation? The fact that strong radiation is not something Steve can prepare for in his original universe would mean he will slowly and painfully die. And yes, the US has nuclear warheads, they just decide to not use them, but they definitely can use it against Steve if it is their only goal.

These are just a few ways Steve can lose to the US military.

Rebuttals

Steve can take anything he wants from there, therefore he has an unlimited supply of every conceivable resource: Potions of Healing, Golden Apples, and Blocks. A word on those, for this debate, we will assume that when Steve places a block, it obeys the laws of physics and can be broken. Note that this is fair, since there are no unbreakable blocks in Minecraft. Anyways with this power, Steve becomes unkillable, as he can always spawn in more resources.
Steve can place only 1 block at a time. The US military, meanwhile, could penetrate his block from all sides since they have millions of people whereas Steve is 1 dude. No matter what Steve spawns, it only becomes a matter of seconds before the blocks become temporary impediments to his impending doom. Not only that, the US could use all their jets to carpetbomb steve every second, so the net blasting force would knock steve around to his death. Steve can eat golden apples and drink potions so fast, but the blasting force of a rocket missile is much more than a bullet, not even counting atom bombs that can kill Steve many times over for just a single ignition. In other words, with strong enough bombs, Steve dies in a single hit.

I'm sure PRO is thinking he could bomb Steve with a bomb. However, if we take into account that Steve has unlimited ender pearls, elytras and potions, Steve could just run away from the bomb instantly.
Carpetbombing exists, and Steve can enderpearl so far, not mentioning that since the landscape is known, the farther he pearls or flies, the more damage he takes due to the drop. The US can just bomb thoroughly in the area Steve is in, so no matter where he is, he can be killed. Keep in mind, the US has over 3000 nuclear warheads[3], and the radius of damage is that it is lethal anywhere within 4 miles or so[4]. The US can probably locate where Steve spawns, and then just smashes nuclear bombs in which the entire Alaska would be littered with nuclear waste even if Steve isn't killed instantly. Don't at me with the morals, the ethics, and the environmentals. If the US wants to kill Steve this bad, they can.

As long as he controls himself, he should be able to destroy any tank, soldier or aerial form of transportation the U.S could send at him. If they make a blockade, he could punch through it easily. Mountain? One flick of his fingers, and it's GONE. Not to mention, he has very good stamina. 
Steve can only destroy landscape blocks 1 cubic meter at a time. That is literally how he works. Also, pretty much the only strength of Steve is that he has superhuman hand strength. Literally, if we cut off his arms(which should be possible through the laws of physics), then there is nothing he can do. Steve also cannot look back nor defend his back, so literally, ambushes or even spying and assasination could cease Steve from doing anything. In fact, carpetbombing already does the job, even with normal bombs. Once his arms are gone, he is pretty much dead. 

Steve needs to eat every few minutes, but if he uses an elytra, he can travel hundreds of miles a minute, without breaking a sweat.
Sure, he can provide his own food, but Steve cannot use the Elytra for more than 10 minutes straight or more than 10km of flying displacement without stopping, as illustrated by this source.
Durability decreases by one point each second when gliding. A pair of elytra has 432 durability, allowing 7 minutes and 12 seconds of gliding time without enchantments, providing more than 10,000 blocks of transport distance.[5]

Did you know what Steve can shoot a firework from a crossbow in 0.5 seconds?
And did you know that the US military can shoot bullets 100 times a second? That is much faster than fireworks!

Conclusions
  • Fast bullets could kill steve faster than he could regenerate himself
  • If Steve lays down, he has no moveset to save him anymore
  • Atom Bombs and carpetbombing could instantly kill Steve
  • Steve can only break or place one cubit meter of material at once, but the US can do things simultaneously in an extremely large scale.
  • Steve can just fly so far without reparing or replacing his elytra.
  • According to Physics, Steve's arms can in fact be chopped off, leaving him entirely worthless.
  • Overall, the US can definitely win against Steve if they want.


Round 2
Pro
Notes:

  • PRO agrees with CON's framework.
  • If an item is not conceivable in the physical world, it shall be converted into a more realistic version of it. 
PRELUDE:
Actually a fairly nice argument to read. It feels nice to argue about something about which I am more intelligible. This is where my no-life tryhard hours on Minecraft come into play, as I am aware of game mechanics and some other things.

REBUTTALS:

  •  The Problem with Weapons
I admit I feel bad for bringing this up, but if Steve has unlimited access to the creative menu, he has access to INVISIBILITY. For this debate, we will assume that invisibility works as intended. 

Anyways, on to some counter arguments:

The M134 Minigun, which was developed by the US military in the 1960s and still existing today, can fire up to 6000 rounds a minute, or 100 bullets a second[1]. What does that mean? ONE SINGLE M134 minigun can kill Steve over 20 times in a second, if it is running at peak condition. I do not think Steve can drink potions enough to regenerate over 20 times a second, or to eat enough golden apples to prevent himself from dying.

OK, Does Steve have anything against radiation? The fact that strong radiation is not something Steve can prepare for in his original universe would mean he will slowly and painfully die. And yes, the US has nuclear warheads, they just decide to not use them, but they definitely can use it against Steve if it is their only goal.

Carpetbombing exists, and Steve can enderpearl so far, not mentioning that since the landscape is known, the farther he pearls or flies, the more damage he takes due to the drop. The US can just bomb thoroughly in the area Steve is in, so no matter where he is, he can be killed. Keep in mind, the US has over 3000 nuclear warheads[3], and the radius of damage is that it is lethal anywhere within 4 miles or so[4]. The US can probably locate where Steve spawns, and then just smashes nuclear bombs in which the entire Alaska would be littered with nuclear waste even if Steve isn't killed instantly. Don't at me with the morals, the ethics, and the environmentals. If the US wants to kill Steve this bad, they can.

1. Any military needs some time to prepare. As Alaska is 5876 kilometers away from the mainland [1] If we assume that the military will use paratroopers from a plane for maximum speed, it should still be several hours until they get there. However, after a few minutes, Steve is geared. He proceeds to pack a shulker box[2]
full of Potions of Invisibility (8:00) [3]. He then proceeds to use Depth Strider 3 [4] and Dolphin's Grace [5] (We will assume Dolphins give the effect only to Steve, otherwise Dolphin shows would go haywire.) to travel at mock speed through the ocean towards the U.S in a undetermined route, all in a few minutes. The military would show up in Alaska with all those weapons, and not know he was really in California, shaking off the water and getting ready to destroy the country.

2. If the U.S uses an atomic bomb on Alaska, they would be tormented by International forces for the rest of it's time. According to this memorial to the bombing of Hiroshima:

The initial number of deaths was estimated to be around 120,000 people. This is an explicit violation of the right to life, especially when these targets were predominantly civilian. Atomic weaponry cannot be used again as it would violate the new convention and declaration that relates to human rights, especially the ones that were adopted after the end of WWII. Using atomic bombs is now a violation of Article 3 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states, “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the security of person.” (p 3, 1948). Additionally, the atomic bomb violates Article 6.1 of the International Covenant on Political and Civil Rights: “Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life” (p 4, 1966).
Therefore, the U.S would miss Steve entirely, and proceed to break 2 human rights. Not exactly optimal, and the military knows this. So, they would not risk an atomic bomb without knowing where he was, and as we mentioned in the previous point, they can't find him. 

3. Did I mention they can't find him? Even if they figured out he wasn't in Alaska, he's not necessarily limited to the U.S to go to. I never stated that Steve had to rush in bows blazing. He could hide in Europe for weeks, until they lost interest, then he'd start an assault, confusing the military. Even when they figure out where he is, he can use the Elytra and Ender pearls + Invisibility to run away. Also, a note: 

Unbreaking III increases elytra's flight time to about four seconds per durability point, a total of 28 minutes and 44 seconds. Elytra – Minecraft Wiki (fandom.com)
Steve's Battle Tactics:

- Crystals(End Crystals explode with a damage of 40 hearts, easily killing a regiment of soldiers)
- Bows (Long-range and, with enchantments, deadly)
- Mobs (Placing Zombies, Ravagers, and other hostile mobs to attack them)
- Sword (Sharpness + Strength should make killing soldiers a tap.)
- TNT (Exploding Military Bases)

A Proposed Battle Plan:
1. Get Materials
2. Use Invisibility and Enchantments to sail through the ocean uninterrupted
3. Hide in Africa
4. Wait 3-4 weeks
5. When the military has lost it's guard, attack. Explode military bases (having scouted the U.S looking for them) and fly to another state. 
6. Repeat 5 until most bases are destroyed
7. Attack the White House
8. Declare Victory

Conclusion
  • Weapons are useless as Steve can hide
  •  The use of a Atomic Bomb would prove too risky for the U.S
  •    Steve has a very logical battle plan
  •       Steve could most likely defeat the U.S military in a military campaign.
Thanks Intelligence,
Con
1. Argument against atomic bombs

This is basically an argument of "The US can't win because it does not want to". We are talking about on balance, whether the US Military CAN beat Steve or not, not whether if the US military WOULD. The US military obviously wouldn't destroy Steve with nuclear warheads, even though it is definitely possible through the carpetbombing of atom bombs.

Even then, Pro has yet to disprove why atomic bombs don't work. They probably do, seeing that invisibility do not in fact stop a player from taking damage[1]. Pro has proven that the US would choose to not use atomic bombs, but if we are talking full-conflict, we are comparing the full forces, as if the goal for Steve is just to destroy the US army, and the goal of the US army is to kill Steve. In this ideal case, Atomic bombs can be deployed to kill Steve. The blast radius, which can easily reach 4km, can most definitely demolish Steve even if he is invisible if his health bar is survival. Even then, the radioactivity of those bombs, which are purposely weaponized, would harm Steve too since Uranium Radiation is not something that exists in Minecraft(In fact, Milk can be contaminated by radioactive material[2]). The Chernobyl disaster, for example, has about 200,000 km2 of land contaminated by radioactivity[3].

How big is Alaska? About 1,400,000 sq. Km[4]. That means, ideally, 7 effective drops of strong nuclear warheads could contaminate the entire state of Alaska. The US has thousands of them, and the US can definitely contaminate all the land before Steve even arrives since they have given a week to prepare(The disaster of Chernobyl, for example, had traces of radioactivity even after 30 years[3]). Effectively, Steve would drop dead as he spawns in Alaska seeing there is no proof to nuclear radioactivity, and the US can consistently drop bombs constantly, facilitating his doom which should be right when he started his campaign.

I repeat, we are talking about whether the US military can defeat Steve, not whether if they wanted to. They can use the nuclear warheads if they want, it is their choice that is possibly effective, and they don't do this for the sole reason that they don't yet want to.

In the end, realistically, killing a superhuman being should not and never be the sole goal for the US army, as there are more things to do, for example, fighting for freedom and resources. However, this debate assumes that killing Steve is, in fact, the goal, and the US would be trying to do that instead of keeping a free, clean and good reputation in the world.

2. What counts as defeating the US Military?

The goal for defeating Steve is simple: You kill him, poof, gone.

However, what counts as defeating the US Military? Destroying all military bases? Make Biden(or whoever will be in Charge sitting in the White House) Surrender?

First off, the US has military bases all around the world[5], so it is basically impossible for Steve to destroy all of them or let them surrender, seeing that the US can easily call for backups. Not only that, the US has allies. For example, the NATO, the EU, etc, all have adequate military and they can easily help, even if Steve hid in Europe or something(which shouldn't even happen probably in the first place with the radiation and the blasting).

Despite that, Pro has never even shown how Steve can defeat the US Military, just a negative case of how and why the US Military won't defeat Steve. So far, Pro failed to fulfill his Burden of Proof. Say, how would Steve destroy military bases or stations? Doesn't destroying some bases mean explosions that could in itself damage him or even kill him? And how would Steve make the US surrender just by himself? Those questions are never answered. Pro fails so far.

Rebuttal: Invisibility

Simply, the US can deploy nuclear warheads and contaminate the land to the point that life cannot exist without being genetically mutated lethally. Steve would be weakened and die himself by spawn.

Sources


Round 3
Pro
Observation:
- CON focuses his entire argument on nuking Alaska prior and during the spawning of Steve. 
- CON notes that the BOP is to prove that Steve could defeat the U.S military
- PRO agrees to this
- PRO notes that defeating the U.S military is to destroy the White House and eliminate key government personnel.

Prelude:
CON has spent his entire argument focusing on nuclear weapons. However, CON forgets that the U.S is not aware of where Steve will be spawning. This, along with some anti-radiation capabilities in Minecraft, and CON's entire argument is up in shambles. 

NUCLEAR PROTECTION:

An atomic bomb releases both neutron and gamma radiation, both very dangerous to any form of living life. CON utilizes this:
How big is Alaska? About 1,400,000 sq. Km[4]. That means, ideally, 7 effective drops of strong nuclear warheads could contaminate the entire state of Alaska. The US has thousands of them, and the US can definitely contaminate all the land before Steve even arrives since they have given a week to prepare(
Ok, so your plan is to drop 7 bombs on Alaska and then just wait for Steve to die. For the sake of this debate, let us assume Radiation is like the Withering effect. 

Materials that block neutron radiation:
  • Hydrogen and hydrogen-based materials (i.e. water) (Source)
---------------------------------
Gamma rays have so much penetrating power that several inches of a dense material like lead, or even a few feet of concrete may be required to stop them (Source)
It is possible to block radiation. So, let's imagine Steve spawns in. He quickly equips a Water Bucket, Obsidian, and a Diamond Pickaxe in a few seconds. He proceeds to box himself up in obsidian, place down water, drink Water Breathing, and eat lots of Golden Apples. It would be simple for him to survive this way. And, after eating an Enchanted Golden Apple, he breaks out, pearls, goes back in the box, and pearls away. With enough pearls and Enchanted Golden Apples, he would get to an area untouched by radiation. AND, a Potion of Healing would heal most heart problems, surface scars, and any other medical problems. Like a master, Steve has escaped from Alaska with only minor scratches. 

Steve would drop dead as he spawns in Alaska seeing there is no proof to nuclear radioactivity, and the US can consistently drop bombs constantly, facilitating his doom which should be right when he started his campaign.
Radiation is not one hit kill. It is a severe medical condition that affects you over a long time (Source). So, he should be able to perform the above task without too much struggle. 

So, I have disproved the notion that Steve could be defeated with atomic bombs, as Steve could use radiation proof materials to block it temporarily and healing items to delay the effects, long enough to escape the radiation. 

Defeating the U.S military:

For this debate, let us assume that defeat of the U.S is to attack/destroy the White House, removing most government personnel and leading to total chaos in the country, pretty good definition of defeated. 

So, after escaping the radiation, Steve would move towards Washington with pearls and Elytras. Then, using a TNT dispenser in the air, dynamite would rain down from the skies. Then, using the battle tactics mentioned:
Steve's Battle Tactics:

Crystals(End Crystals explode with a damage of 40 hearts, easily killing a regiment of soldiers)
- Bows (Long-range and, with enchantments, deadly)
- Mobs (Placing Zombies, Ravagers, and other hostile mobs to attack them)
Sword (Sharpness + Strength should make killing soldiers a tap.)
TNT (Exploding Military Bases)
The entire building would be destroyed. Along with invisibility, this should be increasingly simple. 

Conclusion
  • Radiation is inadequate to defeating Steve
  •  Steve could easily destroy the White House
  •   Steve could most likely defeat the U.S military in a military campaign.
Sorry for a short argument, will be busy for the next week, had to rush this. 

Thanks Intelligence for the debate!

Vote PRO!
Con
Rebuttals

1. My plan isn't just to drop 7 Bombs. The US has more than 3000 nuclear warheads that could be used to... defeat a single superhuman entity. I will admit that it is my inexperience and lack of knowledge concluding that radiation is lethal immediately(it probably isn't), but remember that I said:
and the US can consistently drop bombs constantly, facilitating his doom which should be right when he started his campaign.
Keep in mind that the US do have the powers to do that, and constant droppings with each one possibly that could end Steve right away, dealing more damage than he could ever heal at one instant, would make the chances of Steve even leaving Alaska very slim, given the blast radius of any one of them.

This argument of mine went unrefuted and my opponent merely recognized this as a part of "radiation attack of 7 warheads" argument or not at all. I am just bringing up this argument that exists from last round.

Yeah, sure, even if radiation is not what kills him, the sheer strength of a blast of many nuclear warheads might as well can do the job, at a cost that that US can afford to pay, if they really want to defeat Steve that bad in an idealized world.

In this case, since Pro utterly ignored one of my support arguments, this thus removes the guarantee that he will fly to Washington DC at all, let alone even out of Alaska at all.

So far, this is the only argument standing as of now as all others have been dropped but I firmly believe that this argument itself stands. If you are being convinced by this argument, vote for CON!