Instigator / Pro
7
1487
rating
31
debates
35.48%
won
Topic
#3557

maximum security prisoners should be used as slaves

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
6
Better sources
4
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
1
2

After 2 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

Novice_II
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
14
1890
rating
98
debates
93.37%
won
Description

Prisoners such as rapists, child rapists, murderers, serial killers, and people along those lines, should essentially be used as slaves by the people, for the people, to fix our roads, to work for us for free to pay back something to the communities they took so much from, instead of getting free breakfast in bed and a TV. Being a leech to the tax payers' money. If we decide to keep them alive, why not make them useful towards society through means of hard labour?

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

I could go through a lot of points given in this debate, but honestly, I think it all comes down to a single quote from Pro:

"I realise rehabilitation prisons work better for crime rates, visitation rates, and the economy".

This, essentially, functions as a concession that Con's CP is better than Pro's case. I could buy every argument Pro is making and all it would tell me is that the slavery-based system is better than status quo, not better than Con's case. Pro's only argument against said case is that there is an inherent barrier to action, i.e. the US (which was the focus of this debate) would not implement a rehabilitation-focused system of prisons. Setting aside the fact that the only support for this is a single poll that doesn't detail political will (or lack thereof) to implement such a system, and the fact that Pro largely just assumes that his case will pass in spite of the fact that slavery is and has been banned via constitutional amendment, cases in debate function based on fiat. Both sides, not just Pro, have the capacity to fiat that something will happen. This debate topic uses the word "should" and thus focuses on whether an action is the right course to take, as distinguished from a "could" resolution that would focus on the capacity to implement a given change. Pro can argue that impediments to Con's plan would yield consequences if he simply bypassed them entirely, but he can't argue that Con's case is impossible, especially given the lack of support for such an inherent barrier to such a proposal.

As such, I vote Con.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

First, there was a constant lack of distinction (mostly on the part of PRO) about the group of prisoner being brought up. The title specifies maximum security prisoners, but the statistics cited by PRO in R1 refer to all federal prison inmates. Other groups brought up include death row inmates, "[convicted] rapists and serial killers" and the general U.S. prison system as a whole (which would include state prisoners as well as federal). This makes it very difficult to evaluate the validity of various arguments and I personally wouldn't mind seeing a rematch where this was held more strictly. I will be be trying to judge arguments based on how they refer to maximum security inmates as that is the group named in the title of the debate.
The main point that PRO brings up is that the prison system runs at a massive deficit and this could be alleviated by slave labor. The most relevant counterargument in my opinion on the part of CON as this is a economically motivated argument was that of COST. Through a quote, CON brings up that there are costs associated with employing prison inmates in addition to the regular costs of just keeping them in prison, such as transportation and training. Pro mainly dismisses this argument saying that without statistics it doesn't prove anything.
There's a lot of moral arguments about various groups of prisoners and innocence and stuff, but these are almost impossible to parse if I try to apply them to maximum security prisoners specifically. I will save elaboration on that for if there's a second debate or I decide to take up con's position myself.

Overall I what I could make out of the arguments, I will give points to CON as his main point went undefeated. Statistics would have been ideal if this was an actual policy debate instead of a yea or nay debate, but I think the quote and other sources get the point across.

I won't award any points for sources because none of them actually referred to maxsec prisoners specifically.
Spelling and grammar were equal as far as I could tell, no egregious errors that I noted, a few sentences definitely could have been worded better, but the points got across.
Conduct: there was a lot of use of intentionally charged language in referring to severe crimes such as rape and murder. This is one of the things I hate about political debates. Everyone immediately jumps to using words like pedophile and instantly anyone who says a single word of defence for the other position is enabling pedophiles or is a pedophile or something. CON didn't bend though, and insisted that even terrible people deserve certain rights (there was a whole separate argument about the validity of the death penalty for the same people that I didn't address because it has no bearing on the slavery: yes/no argument in my opinion.) This might be an unconventional reason to award the points but for being a decent human and treating other humans like humans, conduct points to CON