Instigator / Con

1587

rating

182

debates

55.77%

won

Topic

#3923

Modern TKD is a joke

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 3 votes and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Sir.Lancelot

Tags

Sports

Parameters

Publication date: 12.01.2022 02:47PM
Last updated date: 01.08.2023 04:27PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One month
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Pro

mr.guynow

1486

rating

debates

0.0%

won

Description

Tae Kwon Do is a martial art that was created by a Korean general named Choi Hong Hi. Over time, the name and historical associations would make the sport more popular, especially in places like the US. With many dojos appearing in the country claiming to teach Tae Kwon Do, the style would repeatedly become adapted and changed over time and in other words, nerfed.

Terms and Definitions-

TKD: Tae Kwon Do is a Korean form of martial arts involving punching and kicking techniques, with emphasis on head-height kicks, spinning jump kicks, and fast kicking techniques.

Modern: Involving recent techniques, methods, or ideas.

Martial Arts: All of the various systems of training for combat that have been arranged or systematized.

Self-defense: The use of force to protect oneself from an attempted injury by another.

Combat: Hand-to-hand combat is a physical confrontation between two or more persons at short range that does not involve the use of weapons.

Competent: Having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully.

Efficient: Achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense.

Useless: Not fulfilling or not expected to achieve the intended purpose or desired outcome.

Rules-

1. No forfeits. If you participate, you are expected to be fully committed to engaging in all of the three rounds. Forfeits are an auto-loss.

2. Burden of proof is shared. The burden of proof is a suggestion, but NOT a requirement.

Round 1

Sir.Lancelot

12.01.2022 04:17PM

Con

Welcome, mr.guynow.

Intro:
I shall demonstrate how modern TKD is inadequate in several ways by proving that it fails a system of combat.

Burden of Proof
Terms and definitions are all laid out in the full description.
Since modern TKD involves current systems, I should win if I prove that as a whole, it is useless and in-efficient.
Should Pro make the stronger case that modern TKD is useful for combat, then he wins.

Contention 1.: TKD is embarrassing as a standalone art.

In order for TKD to work, it requires you to cross-train in other styles. But if your experience is a solo art like TKD, you will find that it serves no purpose in most bar brawls or street fights. While most combat fighters argue that you should have some diversity in order to be a competent fighter, you will find that some combat styles actually do operate rather efficiently solo against random people.

Contrast TKD with Boxing for instance. A solid 6 months to a year of boxing training will help you defend yourself a lot more effectively in a fight than five years of TKD. And styles like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, while complex to master, will ensure you that you can avoid most fights with minimal effort.

Why Taekwondo Gets Destroyed. - YouTube

Contention 2.: TKD is full of scammers.

With fraudulent companies like ATA, marketing their styles of self-defense as necessary forms of combat to young children and teens, it has made it easier for them to profit from the naivety of parents by taking their money.

When their brand is handing out belts like candy, it essentially comes as no surprise that McDojo’s are rising in popularity. It isn’t uncommon for TKD instructors to claim that their style of combat is civil while claiming that MMA is barbaric as a way to maintain the delusion that what they are teaching is practical.

Contention 3.: The Offense is low-tier quality.

If you watch videos of Olympic TKD, the most obvious thing is the absence of punching.

You can’t learn how to punch from TKD. (Skip to 3:39)

TAEKWONDO PUNCHING TUTORIAL - YouTube

They don’t teach you how to jab, cross, or hook. If you attempt any of the strikes performed in the video in a bar brawl, you’re more likely to sprain your wrist than you are to hurt the other opponent.

The strikes that work are mainly the head-kicks, but they are only effective at long-range and unless you’re a genius in manufacturing a set of circumstances to strike at the temple, it is too difficult.

Contention 4.: They prioritize forms over skill.

Too much time is wasted on learning dance routines and choreographed stunt moves for an action movie and not enough time spent on learning if the techniques actually work. To advance in the sport and gain a new belt, you simply need to be able to perform all of the moves the form requires you to learn.

mr.guynow

12.03.2022 04:17PM

Pro

Forfeited

Round 2

Sir.Lancelot

12.03.2022 04:27PM

Con

mr.guynow has forfeited the first round by not responding in time, thus conceding the debate as well.

This concludes the end of the conversation. Please vote accordingly.

mr.guynow

12.05.2022 04:27PM

Pro

Forfeited

Round 3

Sir.Lancelot

12.07.2022 04:27PM

Con

Forfeited

mr.guynow

12.09.2022 04:27PM

Pro

Forfeited

Public-Choice

12.09.2022 09:06PM

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@Sir.Lancelot

Well my do jeng only had basic rules, not the super complicated ones. And it also had rules that mimicked real life and trained us to practice sparring in everyday circumstances. If your do jeng does that, then TKD is definitely not a waste of time.

K_Michael

12.07.2022 07:28PM

I took tae kwon do classes as a kid. I luckily never had to use those skills in a real fight and most of the ability and flexibility has deteriorated by now, so I can't really evaluate how helpful they were. In general there were some basics that were good to learn, i.e., if you close your fist around your thumb you'll break it, hit soft places with hard strikes and hard places with soft strikes (smacking someone in the head to stun them rather than a bareknuckle punch, not a softer version of the same strike)
I don't regret the time I took in that class and maybe I will take a martial arts class again some day, but I have no particular preference for tae kwon do.

Sir.Lancelot

12.05.2022 07:49PM

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@Public-Choice

Yeah. Having sparring certainly makes a difference, especially in establishing the dojo as a legitimate one.

However, the amount of rules and restrictions in modern TKD sparring really limit what you’re able to do. The sparring is great for tournaments and scoring points, but useless in street or cage fighting.

Public-Choice

12.05.2022 06:32PM

It is useless if your do jeng (jang?) doesn't offer sparring practice or classes. That is where people REALLY learn to apply what they've learned. Watching two black belts spar is a beautiful art. Especially when the Tae Kwon Do instructors create scenarios that are like real life to practice with.