Instigator / Pro
11
1524
rating
51
debates
75.49%
won
Topic
#4112

Homosexuality is not wrong

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
3
Better sources
4
2
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
2
2

After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...

Bella3sp
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
9
1300
rating
221
debates
44.8%
won
Description

𝐈 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐛𝐞 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐑𝐎 𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞: 𝐇𝐨𝐦𝐨𝐬𝐞𝐱𝐮𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐢𝐬 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐰𝐫𝐨𝐧𝐠

Both PRO and CON are provided with f̲i̲v̲e̲ rounds with the deadline of o̲n̲e̲ week per round to respond.

This argument should only include actual facts and logic. Failure to do so only results in your own loss. Feel free to involve your feelings if you so choose to ignore. If you choose to forfeit I will extend it if or until the last round. If it continues to be a forfeit it is most obvious I have won the debate. Thank you.

Audience, please do not send hate towards me or the other contender. You may submit questions and/or comments below. Other than that, choose wisely!

Round 1
Pro
#1
Thank you, @Best.Korea for accepting this debate! 

Beginning: 
This argument is debating if homosexuality is wrong; a controversial issue in society today. Though some may agree with my position, others may argue it as unnatural or wrong. I will be presenting my viewpoint that homosexuality is not wrong. Whereas CON must argue that homosexuality is wrong.

Definition of Homosexuality: 
First off if we are to come to any response to this argument we need a clear understanding of the definition of Homosexuality.

Homosexuality refers to a sexual attraction or romantic relationship between individuals of the same sex. It is an inherent aspect of one's identity and not a choice or behavior that can be changed or controlled.

Argument 1;  Homosexuality is Natural 
Firstly the definition of the word natural refers to as: 
”Existing in or cause by nature; not made or caused by humankind”

Homosexuality is not the result of a disorder or mental illness but instead natural to humans. ”Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras.” (APA, 2008) Furthermore, ”the new finding is consistent with multiple earlier studies of twins that indicated same-sex attraction is a heritable trait. The 2019 study is the latest in a hunt for gay genes that began in 1993, when Dean Hamer linked male homosexuality to a section of the X chromosome.” (The Conversation, 2019) While it is still up for debate whether Homosexuality is influenced partly by genes there is still heavy proof that ”gay genes” most likely exist. 


Argument 2; Homosexuality is not a disorder
Being that homosexuality is not a disorder there should not be a cause for viewing homosexuality as immoral and/or wrong. Based on an abundance of scientific evidence has proved that homosexuality is not a disorder. Multiple organizations have already concluded that homosexuality is not a disorder. According to the American Psychological Association, "same sex-sexual attractions, behavior, and orientations per say are normal and positive variants of human sexuality - in other words they do not indicate either mental or developmental disorders." Move over, "no lesbian, gay and bisexual orientations are disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both hetrosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. (APA 2008) 


I have nothing much else to conclude at the moment. I'm curious what CON will include in their argument. That being said, while this is little to provide, this will be my argument for the time being. Good luck





Con
#2
Thank you for starting an interesting debate.

The topic is: "Homosexuality is not wrong".

My position is: It is not true that "Homosexuality is not wrong".

Pro defines homosexuality as: "Homosexuality refers to a sexual attraction or romantic relationship between individuals of the same sex. It is an inherent aspect of one's identity and not a choice or behavior that can be changed or controlled."

Pro defined homosexuality as a sexual attraction between individuals of the same sex.

Homosexuality causes behavior that disrupts function of an individual.


Argument 1;  Homosexuality is Natural
Firstly the definition of the word natural refers to as:  ”Existing in or cause by nature; not made or caused by humankind”
This argument is irrelevant.

Something can be caused by nature and still be considered wrong.

Wrong is by definition: unsuitable, unjust, incorrect.

We can say that it is wrong that children die from flu, but it is natural by Pro's definition. Flu is not caused by humankind, but by nature. Same with many other diseases and sicknesses. We still consider it wrong and we fight against it.

Further, Pro does not explain to us what part of nature caused homosexuality. By Pro's definition, homosexuality cannot exist anywhere except in humans.


”Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras.”
This claim depends entirely on the definition of normal.

If we define "normal" as "what happens in most cases", then homosexuality is not normal. Most people are not homosexuals.

If we define "normal" as "good", then the claim of "its not wrong because its normal" is the same as saying "its not wrong because its good".
Its circular reasoning that doesnt tell us anything.

If we define "normal" as "what is accepted by certain culture", then we also have to consider cultures that really hated homosexuality and considered it wrong.

If we define "normal" as "what occurs in many cultures and eras", then "hating homosexuality and considering it wrong" is also normal since plenty of cultures hated homosexuality.

So if "considering homosexuality as wrong" is normal by these definitions and if "normal" tells us what is right, then "considering homosexuality as wrong" is right.


Furthermore, ”the new finding is consistent with multiple earlier studies of twins that indicated same-sex attraction is a heritable trait.
Many bad things are heritable, like disorders, mental illnesses, weaknesses, diseases, bad behavior...


The 2019 study is the latest in a hunt for gay genes that began in 1993, when Dean Hamer linked male homosexuality to a section of the X chromosome.” (The Conversation, 2019) While it is still up for debate whether Homosexuality is influenced partly by genes there is still heavy proof that ”gay genes” most likely exist.
There are also genes that make us more violent. Violence is wrong. Disorders and mental illnesses can also be caused by genes. They are wrong.

Also, this topic does not deal with "most likely". The topic claims total certainty. The arguments that dont have total certainty are to be disregarded.


Being that homosexuality is not a disorder there should not be a cause for viewing homosexuality as immoral and/or wrong. Based on an abundance of scientific evidence has proved that homosexuality is not a disorder.
Disorder is by definition: "something that disrupts functions of an individual".

We know that homosexuals have "higher rates of HIV, diseases, suicides, mental illnesses, depression and violence" and "lower rates of reproduction", which tells us that homosexuality "disrupts functions of an individual".

Functions being defined as "successful reproduction" and "survival" and "life with least harm".

So yes, it is a disorder.


According to the American Psychological Association, "same sex-sexual attractions, behavior, and orientations per say are normal and positive variants of human sexuality - in other words they do not indicate either mental or developmental disorders." Move over, "no lesbian, gay and bisexual orientations are disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both hetrosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality.
This topic does not deal with specifically lesbians, so I will skip on lesbians.

The claim mentions "positive variants" but does not list what is positive about them.
Saying "It is not a disorder because its positive" does not tell us what is "positive" about it.
I can make the claim and say "homosexuality is a disorder because its negative".

Further, the claim of "psychopathology" doesnt make any sense. Psychopathology is a study of mental disorders.
Claiming that "something is not a mental disorder because it is not related to a study of mental disorders" does not tell us what standards were used to make distinction between a disorder and a non-disorder. It is circular reasoning.

By definition of disorder that I provided, we see that homosexuality disrupts "functions of an individual" and makes him more likely to harm himself or be harmed by others. This increase of harm directly caused by homosexuality proves the claim "homosexuality disrupts the functions of an individual" to be correct.

The claim "homosexuality is a disorder" is proven correct by the claim "homosexuality disrupts functions of an individual", where "disorder" is defined as "something that disrupts of functions of an individual".

The claim "Homosexuality is not wrong" is proven to be false with a claim "Homosexuality is a disorder" and with the claim "homosexuality increases harm".

I am looking forward to hear your opinion on this.
Round 2
Pro
#3
Interesting... 
Before I begin my rebuttal, I would like to point out CON has yet to provide any evidence for their argument that explains how homosexuality is wrong. Everything seems unsupported. 

That being said let's continue the debate now, shall we? 

Rebuttal: 
Pro defined homosexuality as a sexual attraction between individuals of the same sex.
Incorrect, you have even verified my actual definition yourself.

You state: "Pro defines homosexuality as: Homosexuality refers to a sexual attraction or romantic relationship between individuals of the same sex. It is an inherent aspect of one's identity and not a choice or behavior that can be changed or controlled.""

Homosexuality causes behavior that disrupts function of an individual
Seeing you added this early on without definition, I have chosen to ignore this. I have found your definition later on in your rebuttal and have already responded. 

This argument is irrelevant.
This argument is showing homosexuality is natural. 

Wrong is by definition: unsuitable, unjust, incorrect
Correct, (and I hate to be this person) however I would also like to add the extension: "to treat disrespectfully or dishonorably: violate". I am adding this because I will be using this later on in my rebuttal. 

We can say that it is wrong that children die from flu, but it is natural by Pro's definition. Flu is not caused by humankind, but by nature. Same with many other diseases and sicknesses. We still consider it wrong and we fight against it.
My entire point in that section is homosexuality is not something controllable. Such as if someone was mentally or physically disabled they shouldn't be considered wrong ("to treat disrespectfully or dishonorably: violate"). For example, someone should not be talked down to because they are physically disabled. 

On top of that, you are referring to homosexuality as a sickness and/or comparing the two. If you are comparing the two, homosexuality is not something you can try and prevent.  However the flu is something you can try and prevent. I don't think I need to explain the process of how you could try and protect yourself from the flu. 

Further, Pro does not explain to us what part of nature caused homosexuality. By Pro's definition, homosexuality cannot exist anywhere except in humans.
I will explain this later on in my argument as you scroll. Homosexuality is natural per influence of heritable traits. 

Furthermore, it is possible for homosexuality (through sexual activity) to exist within animals but is usually referred to as "bisexual". Which is why it is not included in my definition. 

If we define "normal" as "what happens in most cases", then homosexuality is not normal. Most people are not homosexuals.
This is inaccurate as not only have you not provided evidence that most are heterosexuals but you are assuming. Being you said, "this topic does not deal with most likely".

That being said, even if you did have evidence, many people are afraid of coming out, forced to ignore and/or ignore their feelings or are just unrecognized to even have a close precise amount of how many people are homosexuals. That would only be a round about estimate of how many homosexuals are alive. 

If we define "normal" as "what occurs in many cultures and eras", then "hating homosexuality and considering it wrong" is also normal since plenty of cultures hated homosexuality. 
Simply just stating that homosexuality has been documented in multiple cultures and eras and is part of human diversity.  Not if it is accepted by them or not. 

Many bad things are heritable, like disorders, mental illnesses, weaknesses, diseases, bad behavior...
(Something bad connotes inferior or poor quality whereas wrong is a concept that connotes immorality and sin. Keep this in mind when using "bad" instead of "wrong")

Of course, that is a given. But many good things are heritable as well. Autism is considered special among some and even a new part of the "evolution" of humankind. Additionally, my main purpose of including this prompt is because most believe that homosexuality is a choice rather than a heritable trait.

There are also genes that make us more violent. Violence is wrong. Disorders and mental illnesses can also be caused by genes. They are wrong.
Are you concluding and/or suggesting that homosexuality makes homosexuals violent? Seeing that there is no proof backing this, I don't see how you're coming to this conclusion.

If anything, it would be prejudice or discrimination against those who are homosexuals that create violence. As stated from Beyond Blue,  "However, experiences with discrimination and stigmatisation can lead to a higher likelihood of emotional distress, depression and anxiety." (Beyond Blue, 2022) 

Functions being defined as "successful reproduction" and "survival" and "life with least harm".

So yes, it is a disorder.
I would like to address all of these! 

Successful reproduction: 
One of the most common successful reproductions with homosexuals: In Vitro Fertilization 

IVF definition: 
IVF stands for In Vitro Fertilization which is a medical procedure whereby an egg is fertilized by sperm in a test tube or elsewhere outside the body

IVF is proven useful along with a successful way to repopulate the earth along with having successful reproduction. Being homosexual does not mean you can't repopulate the earth along with having successful reproduction.

Survival: 
I'm unsure what function your talking about that being homosexual will affect your survival. Elaborate. 

Life with least harm: 
Once again, I will need you to elaborate. I would like to know your definition of "life was the least harm". 

Your definition of function in other words: homosexuality disrupts least harm of an individual. (least harm)"

If you are referring to "life least harm" by saying homosexuality itself causes you pain has no evidence. Furthermore if you are to state they would have least pain than anyone else would as well be false. If you are referring to this, I would love to see evidence (if any)! 

If you are referring to "life with least harm" by saying homosexuality causes  harm because people have injustice against them, and they (homosexuals) are causing harm, then that is also incorrect. Homosexuality itself isn't causing the harm. It would be people opinions on homosexual people. 

If you're referring to "list with least harm" in any different way please elaborate. 

We know that homosexuals have "higher rates of HIV, diseases, suicides, mental illnesses, depression and violence" and "lower rates of reproduction", which tells us that homosexuality "disrupts functions of an individual".
HIV
Not all gay men have sexual relationships. As my definition states "Homosexuality refers to a sexual attraction or romantic relationship". Your suggesting every relationship is sexual, however not everyone has sexual relationships.

Nevertheless, your argument is somewhat flawed. According to verywell health, "For example, men who identify as "gay" or "bisexual" aren't necessarily sexually active, while those who identify as "straight" might have sex with multiple men." (verywell health, 2022). This means even straight (hetrosexual) people can as well have "higher rates" of HIV. 

Diseases
Are you trying to conclude if someone is homosexual they can get a disease such as heart disease more likely? This seems like a broad conclusion. Elaborate. 

Suicides, Mental illnesses, Violence and Depression
Most suicides, mental illnesses, violence occurrences, and depression are caused because of hetrosexuals injustice towards homosexuals. This is caused by human-kind. 

And with my extension of the definition of "wrong" : treat disrespectfully or dishonorably: violate. Then to call homosexuals wrong by those who treat them wrong is what should clearly be called "wrong". 

My reason for writing these all down is to prove my point that, to say the cause is homosexuals only is false. 

As to even backup my point even further, "Most LGBT youth consider suicide in response to bullying, discrimination, homophobia, depression, anxiety, substance abuse, violence, gender nonconformity, low self-esteem and societal and family rejection." (Western Michigan University, 2023) 

This topic does not deal with specifically lesbians, so I will skip on lesbians.
This topic includes both gays and lesbians. Not one or the other will be specifically focused on as both are homosexual. Going back to my definition of homosexual. 

The claim mentions "positive variants" but does not list what is positive about them.
Saying "It is not a disorder because its positive" does not tell us what is "positive" about it.
I can make the claim and say "homosexuality is a disorder because its negative".
Positive meaning: consisting in or characterized by the presence or possession of features or qualities rather than their absence.

Features meaning: a distinctive attribute or aspect of something.

This doesn't mean they are a good or bad thing, just a distinctive attribute people have while others do not. Such as someone having brown hair while the other has black hair. 

Psychopathology is a study of mental disorders.
Correct. The APA has verified it as not a mental disorder. 

Running out of characters however I will answer the last three claims and rebuttals: 

Incorrect with all my previous argument(s) in my rebuttal. 

References: 

(I apologize for not listing any of my references last round)

I have already stated my argument and have nothing else to add.
I am interested and as well anticipating your opinion on this.




Con
#4
Thank you for this debate.


It seems that Pro has conceded many of my points, even proved some of my points for me.


The topic is: "Homosexuality is not wrong".

My position is: It is not true that "Homosexuality is not wrong".

Wrong is by definition: unsuitable, unjust, incorrect.


Pro says this about the definition: "Correct, (and I hate to be this person) however I would also like to add the extension: "to treat disrespectfully or dishonorably: violate". I am adding this because I will be using this later on in my rebuttal."

So Pro says that the added definition of wrong is: "to treat disrespectfully or dishonorably: violate".

However, the words "to treat" in Pro's definition are a word play. Can homosexuality treat someone disrespectfully or dishonorably? Can homosexuality violate someone?

Lets check.

If I can prove that homosexuality of a person causes that person to be treated disrespectfully or dishonorably or to be violated, I believe the definition will be satisfied.



Such as if someone was mentally or physically disabled they shouldn't be considered wrong ("to treat disrespectfully or dishonorably: violate"). For example, someone should not be talked down to because they are physically disabled.
I never claimed that person should be considered wrong. Their disorder, however, should be. Disorders are something that "if removed, an individual's life is improved".


homosexuality is not something you can try and prevent. However the flu is something you can try and prevent.
This debate is not about if certain disorder can be cured or prevented or removed currently.

A definition of disorder( or sickness ) is not that "we can prevent it" or "we can remove it" or "we can cure it".

The definition of disorder is very simple: something that disrupts the function of an individual.


If anything, it would be prejudice or discrimination against those who are homosexuals that create violence. As stated from Beyond Blue,  "However, experiences with discrimination and stigmatisation can lead to a higher likelihood of emotional distress, depression and anxiety."
"Discrimination creates violence" does not mean that "Homosexuality doesnt create violence". Homosexual person experiences more violence than straight person does. Curing the homosexuality of a person would greatly reduce the amount of violence that such person experiences. Curing homosexuality would make a person feel safer. Homosexuality in a person creates violence. It makes others attack the person that has homosexuality. Removing homosexuality from a person would remove violence that happens as a result of homosexuality.

In Pro's own words: "Most LGBT youth consider suicide in response to bullying, discrimination, homophobia, depression, anxiety, substance abuse, violence, gender nonconformity, low self-esteem and societal and family rejection.".

If we know that a person will suffer unless we remove homosexuality, then we are to consider homosexuality wrong and remove it.

In the future, it will be possible through gene editing to remove homosexuality.

Once homosexuality is removed, homosexuals will be straight. They will no longer face violence that they would face if their homosexuality was not removed.


This is inaccurate as not only have you not provided evidence that most are heterosexuals
I dont need to present evidence to disprove your claim if you didnt present evidence to support it.


Simply just stating that homosexuality has been documented in multiple cultures and eras and is part of human diversity.  Not if it is accepted by them or not.
Same applies to many other disorders and crimes. This is not unique to homosexuality.


most believe that homosexuality is a choice rather than a heritable trait
It was already explained that "heritable" does not equal to "not wrong".


Autism is considered special
I am not sure what are you trying to prove here.


Then to call homosexuals wrong by those who treat them wrong is what should clearly be called "wrong".
"People treating homosexuals wrong" does not mean that "homosexuality isnt wrong". We have seen that if we cured homosexuality, we would remove the violence that happens when homosexuality is not removed.


homosexuality is not something controllable
It might be. You mentioned gay genes. We could remove those genes. That being said, I believe a homosexual can choose to supress his attraction, which would reduce "the amount of violence he experiences as a result of being homosexual".


Homosexuality itself isn't causing the harm. It would be people opinions on homosexual people.
Is a false claim. Removing homosexuality from a person would reduce the amount of harm the person experiences in life.


Most suicides, mental illnesses, violence occurrences, and depression are caused because of hetrosexuals injustice towards homosexuals.
Is a false claim. If we remove homosexuality, then we will also remove "the injustice that person experiences due to being homosexual".


Correct. The APA has verified it as not a mental disorder.
Sorry, I didnt realize you were appealing to authority. I will appeal to Korean authorities. They consider homosexuality as "very bad".


men who identify as "gay" or "bisexual" aren't necessarily sexually active
The HIV rates disagree.

50% of homosexual males are positive to one or more STDs.


Conclusion:

I consider this a fun debate so far, and I feel like I have proven my position of "Homosexuality is wrong" due to the fact that homosexuality puts a person who has it through lots of suffering.
Round 3
Pro
#5
I once again appreciate you for engaging in this debate.

I am glad you took the opportunity to "prove some points" for yourself. Clever indeed! Though you have also proved some considerable points for myself. 

Before I start, once again I would like to point out that con has failed to provide any evidence towards any of these claims or rebuttals. Also it seems they have moved on and backed down from some of their claims like "successful reproduction, etc.." I wouldn't blame them. 

That said, let's continue this debate.

REBUTTAL:
I never claimed that person should be considered wrong. Their disorder, however, should be. Disorders are something that "if removed, an individual's life is improved".
Firstly, I would like to make clear that it was an example not that you claimed anything.

"Their disorder .. " is unsupported if you are talking about homosexuality as a disorder. And I have already stated evidence.You have also not responded to my rebuttal 

Since you have no evidence regarding how homosexuality is a disorder then this comment is disregarded. If you change your answer to it being a genetic disorder out of pressure, I as well have something for that.

This debate is not about if certain disorder can be cured or prevented or removed currently.
Your entire argument so far and so forth as I read is about removing, preventing or curing homosexuality.

The definition of disorder is very simple: something that disrupts the function of an individual.
I understand the meaning.
However last round you tried tried to stress homosexuality is a disorder however did not rebuttal against my rebuttal showing how your claims are wrong.

Though you seem to have already dropped that argument.

Homosexual person experiences more violence than straight person does.
To clarify, the reason I don't respond to some of the "if we remove homosexuality, .." is because it is already answered in this section. 

Once again you have no evidence to support your claim. And being untrue because being straight does not mean you don't experience more violence in your everyday life. I can see the logic you're trying to come from though. 

I would also like to mention, if someone who was born homosexual and decided to hide their feelings pretending to be straight would they go through violence? No, violence would not occur because heterosexuals would be thinking that individual is hetrosexual. The only way violence could occur is if they knew you were homosexual.

I think this already closes your entire rebuttal and claim. Being that someone who is homosexual is pretending they would no undergo stigma that at this point I really don't need to further this rebuttal. Unless you can finally show some proof rebuttaling this.

I can even further this as my main overall comment of removing homosexuality. By saying that it is possible to remove homosexuality you are referring to remove it as a "gay gene" however that is not proven that there is clearly a gay gene.

Not only but this brings up a new claim for me. "Homosexuality is not wrong its the stigmga they receive"

Curing the homosexuality of a person would greatly reduce the amount of violence that such person experiences.
I have responded to this already. 

However ill bring something up that might hopefully hit the spot just right to prove my point. 

Curing homosexuality? Would that be the same as "curing Korean"? As many Koreans  have violence occur in their life. I would presume we would want to "cure them" to greatly reduce the amount of violence, correct?

In the future, it will be possible through gene editing to remove homosexuality.
"In the future", being this can't happen currently, I am not sure why this is being mentioned.

More so, your also bring up the word "gene editing" suggesting there is a "gay gene". Being there is no proof that there is currently a "gay gene" and this topic doesn't deal with "most likely" I would assume this should be discarded.

I dont need to present evidence to disprove your claim if you didnt present evidence to support it.
I never started with the claim that most are heterosexuals. You brought it up, meaning you need evidence.

Same applies to many other disorders and crimes. This is not unique to homosexuality.
Your somewhat correct being I stated "human diversity", crime and disorders do not relate to human diversity meaning it does not apply.

"Diversity is the range of human differences, including but not limited to race, ethnicity, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, age, social class, physical ability or attributes, religious or ethical values system, national origin, and political beliefs." (UtahState University,

I am not sure what are you trying to prove here.
As in the beggining of my sentence states: "But many good things are heritable as well."

It was already explained that "heritable" does not equal to "not wrong".
Once again "But many good things are heritable as well."

"People treating homosexuals wrong" does not mean that "homosexuality isnt wrong". We have seen that if we cured homosexuality, we would remove the violence that happens when homosexuality is not removed.
Who are we? You haven't provided any scientific evidence.

I have also already responded to this claim. 

It might be. You mentioned gay genes. We could remove those genes. That being said, I believe a homosexual can choose to supress his attraction,
Actually you gave me a laugh for a moment. Using my evidence that you discarded and now you're using it as your own? Ironic. Maybe not actually, guess I should've expected it this way.  

I mentioned it, however you totally voided it (rightfully). You can't discard my evidence and then claim it as evidence for yourself.

On top of that you state "it might not be", this topic does not deal with "most likely" or "might".

I will be using the definition of suppress as: prevent the development, action, or expression of (a feeling, impulse, idea, etc.); restrain.

The definition of attraction: Attraction describes interest, desire, or affinity that's emotional, romantic, sexual, physical, or aesthetic in nature.

You could suppress something all you like but it will remain there. For instance, homosexuals could restrain themselves from kissing another man or women in the street. However the feeling of doing it will remain.

Furthermore according to O'Reilly,  "You may be able to reduce how much you focus on or think about the object of your desire, but you cannot fully suppress your body’s natural desires." (2019

which would reduce "the amount of violence he experiences as a result of being homosexual".
I have already responded to this. 

Is a false claim.
This is not a false claim, and I have backed it up with evidence. I have already gave this evidence to backup my point further: "Most LGBT youth consider suicide in response to bullying, discrimination, homophobia, depression, anxiety, substance abuse, violence, gender nonconformity, low self-esteem and societal and family rejection." (Western Michigan University, 2023)"

if we remove homosexuality, then we will also remove "the injustice that person experiences due to being homosexual".
I have already responded to this.

Sorry,  I didnt realize you were appealing to authority I will appeal to Korean authorities. They consider homosexuality as "very bad".
I am not just simply "appealing to authority" being that they have verified it with many tests. If you are going to be sarcastic at least provide evidence from Korean authorities how it is "bad" with scientific evidence. Otherwise I don't see your argument.

Not to mention, the APA is the study phsyoglical disorders while the Korean authorities are just the authorities. The only thing they really speak of is their own personal opinion. There's a difference when I use evidence from actual studys verus if you were to mention Korean authorities.

50% of homosexual males are positive to one or more STDs.
Once again this is an estimated guess. They have not run tests on every homosexual person alive.

Additionally, "A gay person’s chance of infection is no different from a straight person’s." (Planned Parenthood, 2010).

Even more, Self-reported STI rates were significantly higher among heterosexual-WSMW (58.1%), bisexual-WSM (51.1%), and bisexual-WSMW (64.1%) compared to heterosexual-WSM (46.6%). Gay-WSMW had the lowest rates of self-reported STI (32.0%).

References: 



Conclusion: 
I further extend all my claims. Homosexuality is not wrong. And disprove the position with con's argument: "Homosexuality is wrong due to the fact that homosexuality puts a person who has it through lots of suffering".


I wouldn't call this close to the peak of my exhilaration for a debate but it's been alright.

Back to you, con

Con
#6
I will skip this round.
Round 4
Pro
#7
Nothing to really say because they have skipped. 

Extend
Con
#8
Thank you for an interesting debate.


The topic is: "Homosexuality is not wrong".

My position is: It is not true that "Homosexuality is not wrong".

Wrong is by definition: unsuitable, unjust, incorrect.


This is not a debate about if homosexuality can be cured or not, but if my opponent is right about gay genes, then the cure could be there soon.

To support the claim "Homosexuality is wrong", I use the evidence of "homosexuality causes violence":

"Most LGBT youth consider suicide in response to bullying, discrimination, homophobia, depression, anxiety, substance abuse, violence, gender nonconformity, low self-esteem and societal and family rejection."

"many people are afraid of coming out, forced to ignore and/or ignore their feelings or are just unrecognized"

"However, experiences with discrimination and stigmatisation can lead to a higher likelihood of emotional distress, depression and anxiety."

"Most suicides, mental illnesses, violence occurrences, and depression are caused because of hetrosexuals injustice towards homosexuals."

"I would also like to mention, if someone who was born homosexual and decided to hide their feelings pretending to be straight would they go through violence? No, violence would not occur because heterosexuals would be thinking that individual is hetrosexual. The only way violence could occur is if they knew you were homosexual."

"You could suppress something all you like but it will remain there. For instance, homosexuals could restrain themselves from kissing another man or women in the street. However the feeling of doing it will remain.
Furthermore according to O'Reilly,  "You may be able to reduce how much you focus on or think about the object of your desire, but you cannot fully suppress your body’s natural desires." "

These above are claims made by my opponent. Since he thinks they are true, I will use them for my case.

The claim "homosexuality causes violence" is true.
We see that if a person has homosexuality and tells other people that he has homosexuality, he will suffer greatly and experience violence. They will beat him up or insult him. He will consider suicide. If he doesnt tell them anything, he has to keep it inside of him and suffer and experience emotional violence.
The person who has homosexuality suffers as a result of having homosexuality.

Heterosexual person doesnt face so many problems in life and heterosexual person experiences much less violence than a homosexual person. Homosexuals are, just like pedophiles, defined by difficulty to control their urges. This makes them expose themselves and end up being beaten or insulted or killed. People dont want homosexuality in their country to be promoted as something acceptable. Most of homosexuals consider suicide, and wish they were straight so they wouldnt have to kill themselves.
If they were heterosexuals and not homosexuals, they would have much less problems and would experience much less violence.

The claim "Homosexuality doesnt cause violence" is false. If there was no homosexuality, there would be less violence, less suicides, less substance abuse, and less bad things in general. Homosexuality provokes and causes people to attack the person who has homosexuality, leading to an increase in violence.

The claim "Discrimination and stigmatisation of homosexuals causes violence" is false. Homosexuality causes the violence. The reason for violence towards a person is his homosexuality. If homosexuality was removed, that violence would disappear.


"Homosexuality is wrong" is a correct claim. Homosexuality makes a person who has it to suffer. If something makes a person suffer so much for no valid reason, it is wrong. If a person didnt have homosexuality, his suffering would greatly be reduced.
If we ever find a cure for homosexuality, our obligation would be to cure homosexuality and save people from violence that happens as a result of having homosexuality.


I will use the final round for final conclusion about the debate.

Round 5
Pro
#9
Thanks Best.Korea,

OBSERVATIONS: 
  • My first arguments in round one continue to stand. Extend.
  • Con has backed off on previous arguments initially made by him.
REBUTTAL:
This is not a debate about if homosexuality can be cured or not, but if my opponent is right about gay genes, then the cure could be there soon
Correct. Though if you're going to continue to state this in the majority of your arguments obviously this debate is starting to become that for you.

However, this topic doesn't deal with "if" meaning this would be discarded either way.

I also answer this further down in my rebuttal, but ill restate it, "If it makes possible to find a cure for homosexuality it should never be used unless wanted. I don't think they would ever make such a thing, but if it does happen nobody should be forced into taking this "cure."

We see that if a person has homosexuality and tells other people that he has homosexuality, he will suffer greatly and experience violence. They will beat him up or insult him. He will consider suicide. If he doesnt tell them anything, he has to keep it inside of him and suffer and experience emotional violence. 
I have already responded to this (further down).

I guess I have to address every single one of these huh?

  • "They will beat him up or insult him". You're once again assuming in this situation. Not everyone will harm another for being gay.
  • "He will consider suicide". Not necessarily, not everyone cares about others opinions. Also even hetrosexuals consider suicide "this is not unique to homosexuality".
  • "Experience emotional violence." I don't think emotional violence is not a real thing. Also some people are completely fine with keeping their sexual orientations a secret.
Heterosexual person doesnt face so many problems in life and heterosexual person experiences much less violence than a homosexual person. 
To clarify, every time I say "I have already responded to this" is because it is answered here

Hopefully I won't spoil the rest of your argument before I even get to it but this round should make clear of your entire rebuttal. 
At this point I might steal your way to victory.

1. If nobody knows you are homosexual violence can not occur because the stigma will not exist.

2. Your claiming all people who are homosexual people will face more problems in their lifetime more than a homosexual person. I'll address this in multiple different ways.

Lets address these "problems and violence": 
  • How someone views a problem varys from person to person. For example, some find homework a problem while some don't.
  • Your assuming how much a homosexual person versus a hetrosexual person has problems. This would be impossible. It is impossible to make a precise and accurate amount on if homosexuals or hetrosexual's have more problems. Even with all of this, if you really do think about it, logically, could there be one person (who is homosexual) who experiences less problems than a hetrosexual person?
  • Violence is impossible to be precise as well.  And the same question applies, "if you really do think about it, logically, could there be one person who experiences less violence than a hetrosexual person?"
I think this closes your argument for the most part.

The claim "Homosexuality doesnt cause violence" is incorrect
I have already responded to this.

Homosexuals are, just like pedophiles, defined by difficulty to control their urges.
I hope con knows how this went against his argument made in round two. Con said, "That being said, I believe a homosexual can choose to suppress his attraction, which would reduce the amount of violence he experiences as a result of being homosexual". Now con is stating that they have difficulty. Yes, con could say that he didn't state that "difficulty" meant they can't but I am sure we all know how this somewhat backtracks. 

Hopefully you're just stating they are similar in this way rather than both of them being the same thing. Being that you stated "like" I assume you are stating how they are similar.

But I can disagree with this concept your using. It doesn't have to be difficult to control their urges because many don't have to control their urges. But even with that, not everyone has difficulty controlling their urges. Some could simply just ignore it.

This makes them expose themselves and end up being beaten or insulted or killed.
Even if they do have difficulty resisting their urges, it doesn't mean that they don't have secret relationships.

That said, with my third round I made clear if nobody knew they were homosexual they wouldn't get insulted, beat up, or killed because they are homosexual.

People dont want homosexuality in their country to be promoted as something acceptable.
What's your point? I don't think it matters what those people want.. Maybe the homosexuals don't want them.

Most of homosexuals consider suicide, and wish they were straight so they wouldnt have to kill themselves.
"Most" is an estimate. Not all are homosexuals are suicidal. I can see your basing this off the quote I made "Most LGBT youth ..", this quote states that most youth consider suicide, not all homosexuals together.

Further, they didn't ever have to be straight to still stay alive and not commit suicide. The correct term would be "they wish they weren't judged so they didn't feel the need to kill themselves" - this would more so support the claim, "Homosexuality is not wrong, its the stigma homosexuals receive".

If they were heterosexuals and not homosexuals, they would have much less problems and would experience much less violence.
I have already responded to this.

If we ever find a cure for homosexuality, our obligation would be to cure homosexuality and save people from violence that happens as a result of having homosexuality.
This topic doesn't deal with "if" meaning we should discard this.

Even if I did let you have this, it wouldn't matter based on my other responses.

The claim "Homosexuality doesnt cause violence" is false. If there was no homosexuality, there would be less violence, less suicides, less substance abuse, and less bad things in general. Homosexuality provokes and causes people to attack the person who has homosexuality, leading to an increase in violence.
This will be answered more clearly later in my rebuttal. 

The claim "Homosexuality doesnt cause violence" is false. If there was no homosexuality, there would be less violence, less suicides, less substance abuse, and less bad things in general. Homosexuality provokes and causes people to attack the person who has homosexuality, leading to an increase in violence.
This will be answered more clearly later in my rebuttal.

The claim "Discrimination and stigmatisation of homosexuals causes violence" is false. Homosexuality causes the violence. The reason for violence towards a person is his homosexuality. If homosexuality was removed, that violence would disappear.

This part will also make cease of your claim even further 

Maybe you should look over these words. The claim would actually be correct.

Any violent act has a reason for its violence whether it is because they dislike some.thing of a person, disagree, or anything of sorts. This is not something that happens with just homosexuals. It is a person's mindset (opinions, beliefs, etc) that creates the violence. 

I think it's obvious the multiple different things that create violence because of the person's mindset towards them, so I won't list them. 

If others who are hetrosexual, can respect and not violate others who are homosexual means that its not because of homosexuality, its because of peoples opinions etc.

If this doesn't make sense let me clarify it even more.

Not everyone will violate a homosexual for being homosexual. What does this mean? If not everyone will violate a homosexual and can be respectful towards them, it is the person violating causes the violence.

Not only, false accusation or claim that someone is homosexual (even though they aren't) can damage their reputation or become harmful for them.

"Homosexuality is wrong" is a correct claim. Homosexuality makes a person who has it to suffer. If something makes a person suffer so much for no valid reason, it is wrong. If a person didnt have homosexuality, his suffering would greatly be reduced.
If we ever find a cure for homosexuality, our obligation would be to cure homosexuality and save people from violence that happens as a result of having homosexuality.
I have already responded to this claim. "If prejudice makes a person suffer for no valid reason, it should be considered wrong."

If it makes possible to find a cure for homosexuality it should never be used unless wanted. I don't think they would ever make such a thing, but if it does happen nobody should (and mostly have) be forced into taking this "cure".

I will use the final round for final conclusion about the debate.
Alright, sounds good.

CONCLUSION: 
The claim "Homosexuality is not wrong" is most clearly supported by evidence and it is shown of prejudice and discrimination against homosexuals. Homosexuality is natural, not a disorder, and should be respected regardless of personal beliefs or theories. Any other claims that fall under "Homosexuality is wrong" is unsupported and based on estimates.

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SOURCES: 

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Quite unfortunate it's the last round. Out of words once again.
Even with it being the last round, I'm glad we got to do this debate. This being my first actual debate with somebody on this website it was quite interesting to look at another perspective. I look forward to the conclusion and I thank you for this debate.

Vote Pro






Con
#10
Thank you for the debate. It was fun.