For or Against Abortion
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 4 votes and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...
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- 2
- Time for argument
- Two weeks
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- One week
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A tough read. Con did not help themselves in any way as there was no precision, and there were contradictions. Pro did well highlighting where Con was incorrect. I did not see Con really attack Pro's arguments.
Solby, R1
Makes argument on people's ability to not have sex,
Thus for most people,
'Choice to be pregnant.
Phenenas, R1
Makes argument that early on, fetus lacks both pain or consciousness/self.
Their argument on suffering,
Makes me think of what if an individual killed another person who was sleeping,
But of course that's not what Phenenas is saying, I think.
Phenenas makes argument that 'forcing pregnancies to be carried would 'cause suffering, where none might have existed before,
(Their argument of early fetus lacking pain/consciousness/self)
They also make argument that life threatening abortions might not be preformed, that would put the mother's life at high risk.
Phenenas argument that sex is harmless because of their first argument on what they claim a fetus lacks, 'Only works if their first argument is convincing.
Phenenas includes sources for their claims.
Solby, R2
Makes argument on how abortion shows a complete disregard for the fetus as a life,
'But they still need to address Phenenas's claims in 'some fashion,
Whether making argument that fetus 'does have something to it, whether individualism/pain/consciousness/self/soul/sacred value so on.
Or that we ought value the fetus for some other reason,
Which they try with sexual education,
The flaw of which are the existence of STDs and pregnancy, 'even if one can have an abortion, not really 'pleasant.
But I don't know yet if Phenenas makes this argument on sex education point.
Solby makes argument that children can be adopted, if there is danger of them growing up unwanted by their parents.
Solby makes argument and sources, of dangers involved in abortion.
Phenenas, R2
Makes argument that Solby's claim that pregnancies might occur at higher frequency, not backed by statistics,
Using a 'tiny 1 as a source, but it 'is a source,
And backs their claim.
(Observation by me, that sources can be wrong or misleading, not that Phenenas's is or is not)
Phenenas argument that is is wrong to guilt women into not having an abortion,
This argument 'Only applies if their first claim is correct,
Of the early fetus having no pain/consciousness/soul.
However Solby did not strongly address this argument of Phenenas's.
Phenenas makes argument that it would be cruel to bring so many into existence and put them in foster care, which can be a hard existence.
This argument 'Only applies if their first claim is correct,
Of the early fetus having no pain/consciousness/soul.
However Solby did not strongly address this argument of Phenenas's.
Phenenas makes argument that Solby's source on the dangers of pregnancy/abortion,
Are not backed by some other researchers,
Uses sources.
(Observation by me, that sources can be wrong or misleading, not that Solby's is or is not)
. . . . . . . . . .
Overall, Solby does not manage to make a strong case for why we must consider the fetus sacred,
Rather their argument 'assumes the sacredness of it,
Which is 'fair, assuming that others hold the same assumption.
However Phenenas disagrees with this assumption, makes argument for why 'not to consider it so sacred, and uses sources to back their arguments.
For me this is the biggest point in the debate,
One not addressed by Solby,
I would say near all of Phenenas's other arguments require the truth of this argument,
Which isn't a bad thing,
But it's why my vote of argument goes to Phenenas,
Sources to Phenenas, as they used the prolifically, as well as making argument towards discrediting a number of Solby's sources.
Spelling and Grammar, equal in both sides.
Conduct, both were polite, respectful, showed an interest in each other's arguments, thoughts towards the subject.
. . .
Bit Shameless Plugs to Myself Below,
Consider voting on a debate?
https://www.debateart.com/debates/4497-ought-be-a-legal-right-to-dueling
Some forum topics on the subject of abortion,
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7557-supreme-court-votes-to-overturn-roe-v-wade-draft-shows?page=1
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8045-every-pro-lifer-always-without-fail-gets-it-wrong-on-abortion?page=6
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8797-schelling-points-around-personhood?page=1
An old debate of mine,
https://web.archive.org/web/20210621051416/https://www.debate.org/debates/Abortion/782/
Seems like pro was just helping con with his homework… looking at just one of the points, con refutes himself with the dangers of childbirth, and then without any evidence calls himself wrong. Pro explains that con was originally correct, citing historical death rates.
Con's arguments shift over the course of the debate, and Pro responds to all of their main points. Con doesn't bother to respond to the consciousness argument, which is enough for me to give the win to Pro. Also, Pro provides way more support for their points via sources.
Plz no hate to anyone in this debate cuz this is just how we feel.