Instigator / Con
0
1500
rating
4
debates
25.0%
won
Topic
#4557
Should abortion be legal? (in varying circumstances)
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Winner
0
3
After 3 votes and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...
Bella3sp
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 4
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 13,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Pro
3
1524
rating
53
debates
75.47%
won
Description
Should abortion be legal in: any circumstances, most circumstances, few circumstances, or NO circumstances? I personally side with the last option, and I'm honestly here to see the other side, as most of my family share my view on the subject. Debate time!
Round 1
Con
#1
Just going to keep it relatively simple here first.
When a woman is impregnated, (Accidently or otherwise) the sperm from the male connects with one of the female's Ovum. From that point onward a child starts to grow, a HUMAN child, with as much right to life as it's mother if not more due to its young age. Their life does not just magically start when they exit their mothers, they were alive since their conception, (when they began to grow) we do not have any more a right to kill that very ALIVE fetus than to kill an alive newborn.
The mother, no matter how they received that baby, (rape included unfortunately) has no right to strip that child of its ability to live. even if the mother does not have the funds to raise the child, they could still put them into an orphanage, (or make other decisions with professional help).
I would like to see your side of the argument before I do more, (so I have something to go off of rather than my own points, which are very obviously biased to one side)
Pro
#2
20 minutes, let's gooo...
Thanks Azeal,
Point
Burden
This is shared between both users.
Pro must prove why we should make abortions legal.
Con must prove why we should make abortions illegal.
Framework
If something is going against the law already as is and affecting people negatively, it should not be a law. Same goes for abortions, we should not make a law that bans abortions when it contradicts the already existing law and affecting many.
Definition(s):
What is abortion?
An abortion is a medical procedure to end a pregnancy.
1: a person held in forced servitude2: a person who is completely subservient to a dominating influence
What does the United States say about slavery?
The 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
When you force a woman into delivering a child, that is slavery. You are forcing them (the woman) to be completely subservient under the dominating influence of the government t deliver the child. That is slavery. Not only forcing them to do something, forcing them to do things with there body.
If this is a law in the United States, it should not be contradicted.
2. Underlying conditions of the mother
Sometimes, doctors are comfirm that the child and you might die if you proceed with a pregnancy. And in some cases pregant woman might need an abrotion to protect themselves from dying.
We should not force someone to give up their lives for another.
Let me give evne more examples:
- On Request — Abortion for any reason is legal, though gestational limits still apply.
- Save Life — Abortion is legal when necessary to save the life of the woman.
- Physical Health — Abortion is legal when pregnancy risks significant (but non-fatal) injury to the woman.
- Mental Health — Abortion is legal when pregnancy puts the woman's mental/emotional health at risk.
- Rape — Abortion is legal when the pregnancy is the result of rape.
- Incest — Abortion is legal when the pregnancy is the result of incest.
- Cognitively Disabled — Abortion is legal when the woman is mentally or cognitively disabled.
- Fetal Impairment — Abortion is legal when the fetus is known to have significant mental disabilities or physical malformations. As these can range from non-life-threatening conditions such as Down Syndrome to 100% fatal conditions such as anencephaly, more granular guidelines are often necessary.
- Socioeconomic — Abortion is legal when the woman is financially unable to support the child
3. Long-term effects of forced pregnancy
Mental health is starting to rack up more and more around the world. Forcing an unwanted pregnancy on someone is extremely daamaging to someones mental health. This one is a bit long, but consider:
"Daily experience with this reality through our medical practice has made us aware of the tragedy suffered by women who are compelled to face sometimes insurmountable barriers in order to voluntarily terminate a pregnancy, including, at times, the forced continuation of the pregnancy. ..
Stemming from our commitment to promoting women’s healthcare according to the
highest quality standards of care, and based on evidence, we assert that unwanted pregnancy and its forced continuation affect women’s mental health. ..
There is ample evidence to support the argument that the continuation of an unwanted pregnancy increases the risk of mental health problems; thus, from this standpoint, any woman who is forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term faces a health risk that she should not have to face under current legislation in Colombia1 and has the right to terminate her pregnancy".
Your telling me, an embroyo that doesn't feel pain is trumping over someone who does?
4. 'Supporting' rape
When you ban abortions, you give the opportunity for rapists to have the idea, its okay. When you ban the very thing, that they forcibly produce on someone, your giving them the impression its okay.
Now you might not understand the concept, but 'your' giving the woman who was raped more jail time than the one who caused it in the first place? At this point your just telling the woman, if you get raped "oh well".
Now, here's the thing when I say supporting. Think of it this way:
"Men, we have no real consequence but a few years in jail and a ticket out if you choose rehab! As for you, woman, we will punish you for the very thing that was inflicted by you on the man. And you know what? If you try to kill it in your stomach, you will be sent to jail! In fact, longer than the man! Evne if that man has possibly ruined your life with that child. Yknow, your job, your free time, your life in general, gone! But guess what? Your fine!"
5. An embroyo should not have as much rights as an adult
Why does something that has no pain, has no mind, no real actions, trump over someone who does? Someone who is also affected?
Such as a cow, they have a mind, intelligence, but since when did we give them rights to not kill them? Think about it if a tiger killed a human, wouldn't we kill that tiger? Because another human is feeling harm.
Rebuttals:
Practically con's argument is: A woman should not be able to strip away someones life regardless of any circumstances.
This is the main/only argument with all con-like sides.
I ask pro the following:
- The military kills people if "needed", yet that is a life isn't it? Innocent people were killed and yet we celebrate the army today. Now you may say, we must protect ourselves, but aren't innocent people dying still? Woman do the same; to (in lots of circumstances) protect themselves.
- Are you saying we should treat woman as slaves? I think that's worse than stripping a life that has by no means has intelligence and no brain?
- If a woman with intelligence and a brain cannot have an option or choice, why should this child who doesn't even know how to make a choice get a choice, or obtain a choice?
- What if the mother is dying and needs to get rid of the child, for her own safety? (Which is said in my contentions)
All of these are to prove there is a difference when weighing a embroyo and an adult.
One thing I would like to specifically respond to:
we do not have any more a right to kill that very ALIVE fetus than to kill an alive newborn.
Most abortions if not, all abortions are not done of fetus. They are done before a fetus, when they have no brain or intelligence.
You guys also make it seem like giving up a child for adoption is easy..
Sources:
Round 3
Con
#5
I will be forfeiting this debate most likely. im moving and i have very little time. i am on 2 debates right now and decided to focus on one. i dont beleive i can win this one so bye. and thanks for coming!
Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Concession. Hopefully con will have time for a rematch when they're done moving.
Oh, my bad. I agree, but I understand the opinion.
Yeah, I was referring to the other party in the first sentence, and to your arguments in the second sentence.
Thanks, but my arguments were for the legalization of abortions? My argument was not for the ban of all abortions.
yeah im gonna be honest i genuinely dont understand how someone without either lack of empathy or lack of deep thought into this matter could actually support the ban of all abortions. the arguments presented here are very nice but it shocks me that this is not common sense
It was a bit of satire aimed at the resolution itself. We're talking about something so safe, that it's safer to do than to not.
The only harm experienced by the vast majority of abortions, are the feelings of religious people without any connection to the woman involved.
You're definitely winning this, provided people aren't trolls.
Elaborate. I'm not sure who this is direct to?
Should basic health care be legal in varying circumstances?
Well, looks like I'm winning this regardless of my introduction of slavery!
Short period of time.. Yes. Forcing to hold the baby for months and then forcing a pregnancy, regardless of outcomes. If the mother could die in the process. Which is a possibility with all circumstances, but even more so when doctors ahead of time know. So, when I say slavery I factored all my contentions into it.
Wins her freedom? LOL. The law is gives freedom to ALL humans upon birth, human rights. It's not given to woman when they give birth. If you were to say that, it gives me the impression you mean woman don't get freedom UNTILL they give birth. But back to what you meant.. Woman's (human) rights shouldn't be taken away the moment you have an unwanted child. Which is, like said, slavery!
Slavery is more often than not lifelong.
IF anything, it would be involuntary servitude, which is a short period of time.
She wins her freedom upon the birth of the unwanted pregnancy.
So, were going to ignore the last part? Alright.
Not just pregnancy, forced pregnancy.
We keep using your definitions everytime we have a disagreement, but sure.
"entire subjection to the will and commands of another" : is that not what forced pregnancy is? "My entire subjection to the wills and commands (having forced pregnancy) of the country/state."
"What happens when a girl/woman is forced to do something against their will, like give birth, makes them society's personal incubator. That's it."
Im sorry I laughed. That's still slavery, if you want to use those words: "makes them society's forced personal incubator" which is still slavery!
It's not slavery.
slavery (n.)
1550s, "severe toil, hard work, drudgery;" from slave (v.) + -ery. The meaning "state of servitude, condition of a slave, entire subjection to the will and commands of another" is from 1570s; the sense of "the keeping or holding of slaves" is from 1728.
There is no comparison to pregnancy.
What happens when a girl/woman is forced to do something against their will, like give birth, makes them society's personal incubator. That's it.
Alright, but forcing someone to have pregnancy is slavery. And that is (a) part of the discussion with this medical procedure.
Also, I skimmed only a bit from this debate:
https://www.debateart.com/debates/4531-abortion-is-not-murder
It covered it almost the same as me. I barely saw it mentioned expect for on the other side. Is that ignorant as well?
"When a woman is impregnated, (Accidently or otherwise) the sperm from the male connects with one of the female's Ovum. From that point onward a child starts to grow, a HUMAN child, with as much right to life as it's mother if not more due to its young age."
WRONG!
A zygote =/= [a] child.
Being HUMAN in origin =/= [a] "human being"
Introducing the institution of slavery into this debate covering a medical procedure is just ignorant.
Very close! I honestly thought I was going to win by default.
That was close..
12 hours time for argument is incredibly short. It needs to be 2 days at least.