Instigator / Pro
4
1510
rating
63
debates
53.97%
won
Topic
#4620
Owning a slave is consistent with Christian teachings
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1
After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...
Best.Korea
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
7
1309
rating
270
debates
40.74%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
Pro
#1
In the Old Testament God provides clear guidelines for owning slaves. Jesus never attempts to abolish slavery and even says he supports the law of Moses.
Con
#2
Jesus says in The New Testament:
Luke 6:31
"Do to others as you would have them do to you."
P1) If Bible says "Do to others as you would have them do to you", then a person must wish for others to treat him like a slave if he wishes to treat others like slaves.
P2) Bible says "Do to others as you would have them do to you".
C) A person must wish for others to treat him like a slave if he wishes to treat others like slaves.
P1) If a person wants for others not to treat him like a slave, then he cannot treat others like slaves.
P2) Person wants for others not to treat him like a slave
C) He cannot treat others like slaves.
P1) If a person wants for others to treat him like a free man, then he cannot not treat others like free men according to Christianity.
P2) A person wants for others to treat him like a free man.
C) He cannot not treat others like free men according to Christianity.
Bible in the New Testament says not to seek revenge and not to return evil for evil. Therefore, there is no way to make others your slaves no matter what they do.
Round 2
Pro
#3
Slavery is supported by the law of Moses which Jesus claimed to support and did not directly abolish any part of. We must interpret Jesus's teachings as consistent with the laws of Moses whenever possible. That being said, a Christian should treat their slaves well but if slavery is a present reality of the culture you live in, it is not a sin to own slaves. There also have been slaves who preferred being slaves to being free. If you were a Christian who did unto others as you would have them do unto you, you would also do unto others as they would do unto themselves while putting yourself in the shoes of someone who wanted what they wanted as long as what they want isn't a sin.
Con
#4
Slavery is supported by the law of Moses which Jesus claimed to support and did not directly abolish any part of.
Jesus completed the law.
If the new updated law doesnt allow slavery, then slavery was only allowed before Christ, therefore before Christianity.
The new updated law doesnt allow slavery. Slavery was only allowed before Christ, therefore before Christianity.
If Christianity doesnt allow slavery, then slavery is not consistent with Christianity. Christianity doesnt allow slavery. Therefore, slavery is not consistent with Christianity.
This topic does not deal with The Old Testament. A lot of The Old Testament was abolished, such as circumcision, saturday law, revenge law..
If a lot of The Old Testament was abolished, then this topic does not deal with The Old Testament.
We must interpret Jesus's teachings as consistent with the laws of Moses whenever possible.
If "Do to others as you would have them do to you" is not consistent with making others slaves, then you cannot make others slaves.
"Do to others as you would have them do to you" is not consistent with making others slaves. You cannot make others slaves.
There also have been slaves who preferred being slaves to being free.
If slave by definition is someone who is forced into being a slave, then a person cannot willingly be a slave.
Slave by definition is someone who is forced into being a slave. A person cannot willingly be a slave.
If you were a Christian who did unto others as you would have them do unto you, you would also do unto others as they would do unto themselves
The conclusion doesnt logically follow.
"Do to others as you would have them do to you" has nothing to do with "do to others as they would do to themselves".
Bible says:
"Do to others as you would have them do to you."
If nobody can be a slave willingly, then you can only force others to be slaves if you wish for others to force you to be a slave.
Nobody can be a slave willingly. You can only force others to be slaves if you wish for others to force you to be a slave.
It is not possible to wish to be forced. You cannot force others to be slaves and stay consistent with Christianity.
If its not possible to wish to be forced, then it follows that you cannot force others to be slaves and stay consistent with Christianity.
while putting yourself in the shoes of someone who wanted what they wanted as long as what they want isn't a sin.
You cannot want to be a slave. If you are serving willingly, then you are not a slave.
Slave definition:
a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be their property; an enslaved person.
Round 3
Pro
#5
A lot of the Old Testament is still relevant to Christians such as the sabbath and the ten commandments. None of that was simply thrown away due to Jesus who was a Jew in support of the law of Moses, unless specifically stated by Jesus.
As someone who follows the golden rule you should also empathize with others. After all, just because someone is a Christian who prefers turkey doesn't mean they would only give a turkey sandwich to someone who prefers ham. Quite the contrary, in order to fully practice the golden rule you must be able to put yourself in the shoes of others and do unto them as you would do if you wanted the same thing for them as they want for themselves just as you want what you want for yourself.
You can highlight the word "forced" all you want and in most contexts you would be correct, but strictly speaking slavery is when someone owns someone else and doesn't pay them for labor. Historically people have chosen to be slaves (which is admittedly rare and usually because the other option is even worse).
For most of the history of Christianity, Christians have owned slaves and slavery has been present in society. In the vast majority of cases this was consistent with the reputation of force and maltreatment that slavery has and thus sinful. Hypothetically however, a slave's conditions can be extremely good to the point that their life is far better as a slave and they wouldn't have it any other way. That is what Jesus would call good Christian slavery. It is not slavery itself that Jesus ever claimed to have a problem with, but if anything the way slaves are treated and forced to work without pay without consent. If someone consents to being a slave and is treated well Jesus would have no problem with it.
As someone who follows the golden rule you should also empathize with others. After all, just because someone is a Christian who prefers turkey doesn't mean they would only give a turkey sandwich to someone who prefers ham. Quite the contrary, in order to fully practice the golden rule you must be able to put yourself in the shoes of others and do unto them as you would do if you wanted the same thing for them as they want for themselves just as you want what you want for yourself.
You can highlight the word "forced" all you want and in most contexts you would be correct, but strictly speaking slavery is when someone owns someone else and doesn't pay them for labor. Historically people have chosen to be slaves (which is admittedly rare and usually because the other option is even worse).
For most of the history of Christianity, Christians have owned slaves and slavery has been present in society. In the vast majority of cases this was consistent with the reputation of force and maltreatment that slavery has and thus sinful. Hypothetically however, a slave's conditions can be extremely good to the point that their life is far better as a slave and they wouldn't have it any other way. That is what Jesus would call good Christian slavery. It is not slavery itself that Jesus ever claimed to have a problem with, but if anything the way slaves are treated and forced to work without pay without consent. If someone consents to being a slave and is treated well Jesus would have no problem with it.
Con
#6
In conclusion, I proved that slavery cannot be something a person wants, since the definition of slavery demands that a person is forced.
Therefore, slavery cannot be consistent with Christianity's rule of "Do to others what you would have them do to you".
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Con circled this very well.
1. Jesus' teachings are clear, do unto others.. and that conflicts with slavery.
2. Christianity is the modification of the law of the Old Testament after Jesus. Like Islam after Muhammad. Referencing the old book and ignoring the new book is selective, and does not reconcile.
Sources were limited and inconsequential.
You should have mentioned me in this as I asked you to create this debate for me.
Book chapter and verse .