Instigator / Pro
8
1510
rating
64
debates
53.91%
won
Topic
#4651
Top ten rappers list battle
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
6
Better sources
4
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
2
1
After 2 votes and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...
RationalMadman
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- None
Contender / Con
13
1702
rating
567
debates
68.17%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
Pro
#1
10: Gmosk55
We hereby start this list with one of the filthiest rappers to ever exist. A horrorcore/nerd rap specialist and rhyme specialist is what Gmo is. He never plays around in his music, he always gets straight to the filth (filth is a personal slogan of his).
9: Locksmith
Next is a technical and conscious rapper. The way Locksmith puts words together is one of a kind among rappers. He is always serious, always lyrical and always means business.
Next is a technical and conscious rapper. The way Locksmith puts words together is one of a kind among rappers. He is always serious, always lyrical and always means business.
8: Eazy Mac
We now switch it up with a more playful rapper (but one with serious songs too). Who said always being conscious and serious is what makes rap great? All you need is rhymes, flows and lots of drugs to be a great rapper. An extremely talented rapper from the start, Eazy Mac got in a creative funk which he remedied with drugs and came back more unique than ever to the rap game. Eazy Mac proves that LSD, xanax and lean are nootropics.
We now switch it up with a more playful rapper (but one with serious songs too). Who said always being conscious and serious is what makes rap great? All you need is rhymes, flows and lots of drugs to be a great rapper. An extremely talented rapper from the start, Eazy Mac got in a creative funk which he remedied with drugs and came back more unique than ever to the rap game. Eazy Mac proves that LSD, xanax and lean are nootropics.
7: Mr. Traumatik
Mr. Traumatik is the master of conspiracy rap coming straight out of Wales to fuck shit up.
6: Asa
The talent on this man is insane.
The talent on this man is insane.
5: Tech N9ne
The grand master of flow and leader of Strange Music.
The grand master of flow and leader of Strange Music.
4: Merkules
Merkules balances almost every way a rapper can be high tier and puts them in one package.
Merkules balances almost every way a rapper can be high tier and puts them in one package.
3: Golden BSP
Golden BSP is an acquired taste. I rank him so high because of the uniqueness of his delivery more so than technical ability.
Golden BSP is an acquired taste. I rank him so high because of the uniqueness of his delivery more so than technical ability.
2: K Rino
K-Rino is lyrically supreme.
1: Eminem
Eminem is lyrically supreme but with more vocal range and more money.
Eminem - Alfred's Theme (Lyric Video) - YouTube
Con
#2
DISCLAIMER: I am aware that this list can make people pin me down to a limited number of humans who would have the niche picks in their top 10. However, not only to make that more difficult but as part of debate strategy my 'top 10' in this debate are not necessarily the exact order or 10 rappers that would be in my IRL Top 10. There are reasons to switch around my top 25 even and make any the Top 10 (though some are pretty much always ending up there).
The metrics of an overall rap artist and how to measure their skill level.
Range: How versatile the rapper is, whether in range of topics, vibes or tempo in rapping.
Delivery: The way they articulate, it has 2 elements: passion in the voice and clearness of what is said. Passion and clarity shouldn't be separated in the metrics, they are often trade-offs for one another even (though you can be dispassionate and very unclear and passionate and clear, it also is plausible to tradeoff for a faster passionate style or slower chilled style that has clarity).
Flow: This is not the same as delivery, it is mistaken for that. It is also not quite the same as rhyme scheme in lyrics. Flow is something that can only be described accurately as the following:
A rapper with top tier flow raps in a way that feels like smooth liquid sliding over the beat, lubricating the rhythm of what they're spitting by the way their syllables and usage of them slide along.
A rapper with bottom tier flow raps in a way that feels like harsh desert sand on your bare feet as someone prods at you to keep on moving AKA listening to it. Even if you enjoy it, it's spicy to the ears and maybe pleasurable to some but jagged and harsh regardless.
Lyricism 1 (quality): Do they land quality puns, do they know how to rap so their sentences aren't constantly broken? Do they spit where you go OOF at the punchlines hitting because of what's said?
Lyricism 2 (rhyme scheme): How is the rhyme scheme developed? Is it intricate with internal rhyming (whether that makes the flow smooth or not is irrelevant to this metric), are they known to be talented at rhyming in particular or do they trade it off for either coherence and easier lyricism?
Lyricism 3 (quantity): This may seem silly and pointless but there is a significant different between a rapper who keeps repeating themselves and says very little overall in most raps. Do they actually assault your eardrums and brain with high quantity of bars per song, on average? This doesn't mark down rappers who often collab and just do a verse, instead in such cases it analyses how long their verses were and if they are known to consistently have on-repeat lyrics they pull out or consistently original out of left field type bars.
^ I am including quantity of tracks as well as a factor here but reducing it for someone who has collabed a lot to achieve that quantity, (However you will see that Vinnie Paz still ends up a 9 despite the reduction).
Ability to inspire others: This includes both audience and other rap artists. It is a factor of if the rapper died today (or is already dead) what ripple effect did they have throughout their career and how far and deep was it? Whether inspiring people to rap, to get up and do things, to be a better person. I realise there is a loophole with rappers who inspire you to take drugs, kill people and cheat on your spouse etc. Such rappers will be nuanced in how they're measured, ranked down by 1 or up by 1 at the end of the metric calculations for being negative or positive influencing but I still rank a bad influence above a neutral non-inspirer in this metric.
Consistently fire sound: This is not delivery alone, it's not based on that. Does the rapper consistently whether on collabs or solos, get fire production and sounds, know how to utilise their voice at apex levels?
Improvement over time (evolution factor): Speaks for itself. I am aware that rappers who started off already skilled will end up ranked lower at this. This is still a relevant metric. Some began great at lyricism but shit at delivery and sound so had things to improve anyway.
Based on all these, I use the end-score to rank rappers. I haven't gone through every single rapper. I have however come up with a top 10 that I believe can be genuinely defended in a debate. I realise the privilege I have seeing Pro's Top 10 first. To make it fair on Pro, I will only state my Top 10 rather than begin the attack on Pro's.
I will make it out of 10 rather than 100 and round. This keeps things simpler for the sake of debate. I will not state if it's round up or down.
=========
10. K-Rino
Range: 9/10
Delivery: 8/10 (could just be his accent but it's not clear what he's saying sometimes, otherwise top tier delivery, his voice used to be too shrill and high pitched for me to enjoy, he learned how to deliver lower pitched with more bass as he went along)
Flow: 10/10
Lyricism 1: 10/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 10/10
Ability to inspire others: 7/10
Consistently fire sound: 8/10
Evolution Factor: 10/10
Total: 91
3 tracks to showcase K-Rino's skill (sticking to YT to make it easier, feel free to search in Spotify/Apple Music):
The Struggle Made Me Great (if he had more tracks like this he'd have scored higher in inspiration, this is a rare type of track for him)
9. KXNG Crooked (pronounced 'king crooked' and used to be known as Crooked I)
Range: 8/10
Delivery: 10/10
Flow: 10/10
Lyricism 1: 9/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 9/10
Ability to inspire others: 8/10
Consistently fire sound: 10/10
Evolution Factor: 9/10
Total: 92
3 tracks to showcase KXNG Crooked's skill:
Heatwave (he is the guy on the left of the screen)
8.Devlin
Range: 8/10
Delivery: 10/10
Flow: 10/10
Lyricism 1: 9/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 10/10
Ability to inspire others: 8/10
Consistently fire sound: 9/10
Evolution Factor: 9/10
Total: 93
3 tracks to showcase Devlin's skill:
Triton ft. Ghetts (Devlin is the one who spits at the start and also later, his voice and accent are distinctive from Ghetts, should be easy to tell)
Count Your Blessings (again, his voice will be distinctive)
7. Locksmith
Range: 9/10
Delivery: 10/10
Flow: 9/10
Lyricism 1: 9/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 9/10
Ability to inspire others: 8/10
Consistently fire sound: 10/10
Evolution Factor: 9/10
Total: 93
3 tracks to showcase Locksmith's skill:
Flinch (Locksmith spits first, he's the half Iranian half black guy)
6. Tech N9ne
Range: 9/10
Delivery: 9/10
Flow: 10/10
Lyricism 1: 9/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 10/10
Ability to inspire others: 9/10
Consistently fire sound: 9/10
Evolution Factor: 9/10
Total: 94
3 tracks to showcase Tech N9ne's skill:
Get Your Attention (verse 1 and 3 are him)
5. Vinnie Paz
Range: 10/10
Delivery: 9/10
Flow: 10/10
Lyricism 1: 9/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 9/10
Ability to inspire others: 8/10
Consistently fire sound: 10/10
Evolution Factor: 9/10
Total: 94
3 tracks to showcase Vinnie Paz's skill:
4. Eminem
Range: 10/10
Delivery: 9/10
Flow: 10/10
Lyricism 1: 10/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 10/10
Ability to inspire others: 10/10
Consistently fire sound: 7/10
Evolution Factor: 8/10
Total: 94
3 tracks to showcase Eminem's skill:
3. Apathy
Range: 7/10
Delivery: 10/10
Flow: 10/10
Lyricism 1: 10/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 10/10
Ability to inspire others: 8/10
Consistently fire sound: 9/10
Evolution Factor: 10/10
Total: 95
2. Sa-Roc
Range: 9/10
Delivery: 10/10
Flow: 10/10
Lyricism 1: 10/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 10/10
Ability to inspire others: 9/10
Consistently fire sound: 10/10
Evolution Factor: 8/10 (she began too good, it's not her fault)
Total: 96 (I just think Webby is better, she basically is equal to him)
3 tracks to showcase Sa-Roc's skill:
1. Chris Webby
Range: 9/10
Delivery: 10/10
Flow: 10/10
Lyricism 1: 9/10
Lyricism 2: 10/10
Lyricism 3: 10/10
Ability to inspire others: 9/10
Consistently fire sound: 10/10
Evolution Factor: 10/10
Total: 96
3 tracks to showcase Chris Webby's skill:
Age of Empires (feat. KXNG Crooked) (Webby spits more in it, so it's better to showcase Webby than Crooked with this, phenomenal from both)
^ Webby's voice and accent are quite different to Crooked, you should easily be able to tell which is which when they spit.
Round 2
Pro
#3
Con requested that I post his 3 Apathy songs he forgot to post. Here they are
When you consider who makes better songs it is clear my top ten makes more sense than Con's. I will continue to directly demonstrate this but in this round I will focus on the top 5.
Tech N9ne
Eminem
Con
#4
Round 1 scores were OUT OF 90 NOT 100. minus 10 from all my round 1 scores. Apologies, I calculated by subtraction.
Eminem and Tech N9ne
Both seem to agree on these 2. I put Em 4th, Pro puts him first. Pro does so as he's 'richer' than some below him, whereas I did it due to specific criteria and scoring rounded to the nearest 10% for each.
Tech N9ne being 5th or 6th surely is moot, we don't need to debate that.
K-Rino's placing
Both agree he is in top 10, I put him 10th, Pro 2nd. Pro has not justified this other than spamming songs. My issues lie in his delivery and perhaps 'aura' as well as that he is not consistently on fire tracks whatsoever, even some of what Pro has given shows whack production and delivery from Rino. He has 9/10 range, not 10/10, which also hurt his score.
Golden... Fucking... BSP
How this guy is in Pro's top 30 let alone top 10 is beyond me. I would rank this guy (that assumes his gender, he dresses very genderqueer so I am sorry if I misgendered) as folllows:
Range: 3/10
Delivery: 1/10
Flow: 7/10
Lyricism 1: 6/10
Lyricism 2: 7/10
Lyricism 3: 4/10
Ability to inspire others: 0/10
Consistently fire sound: 5/10
Evolution Factor: 3/10
Total: 36/100
I have no clue why Pro is posting the song's he's posting for BSP, they're mostly utter trash in my opinion, if we are to analyse rapping skill itself.
Webby, Sa-Roc and Apathy
I don't know why these aren't in Pro's top 10, especially Apathy. To rank BSP and Eazy Mac above any of my top 10 is sheer insanity, in my opinion.
KXNG Crooked
I mean... I get arguments that he's more a top 20 or top 30 rapper rather than top 10. The first I posted from him show how he likes to at times relax and spit lazier but still sick af in flow and such.
Vinnie Paz
He's just phenomenal on so many levels. What he has a problem with is he sticks to variations of being this 'thug gangster' in too much of his raps but his range lets him escape that in ways Apathy doesn't and that's Apathy's one hugest flaw. The fact Apathy ended up 3 on my scaling despite that gaping flaw of a 7/10 range shows if heincreased his range, I really think Apathy would be on part with and/or superior to Webby and Sa-Roc.
Sa-Roc's lack of evolution is not just a troll statistic. She did begin brilliant and this limited her evolution but she chose to also stick to a specific 'style' or sort of subgenre(s) within rap that while it has very decent range to it, she will never dish out boppers or such and can't do chilled out rap either.
That's where Webby is just fucking different. I genuinely think there will never be a rapper like Chris Webby again. It's his range. It's the fact you can be an idiot and like him or genius and like him. I don't think low IQ people can fully enjoy Sa-Roc the same as Webby. Sa-Roc dedicates to constantly high brow rap and this means she has a niche, which is ultimately a 'flaw' that holds her back from being a 90/90 rapper as well as the fact that therefore she can't hit 10/10 range.
Locksmith
I think Pro and I have very different reasons that we appreciate Locksmith. To me, he's a gimmick but so damn good at being it. He does that pseudo-intellectual saying-nothing-but-sounding-sick rap so well that he literally has 'concious raps' that say absolutely fuck all about society or what to fix in it but sound so deep. He is a poser but probably the single best poser in the entire industry. That's why I respect him. Locksmith fakes it better than anybody else. I'm a casual fan of him but I can't deny his skill, I will never be a Locksmith Stan, I see through his gimmick.
Merkules
He's always sad and depressed. He has literally 1 niche. Sometimes he goes more intimidating and furious, at other times more emo, this paralysing range as well as the monotone delivery and often 'meh' sounding tracks prevent him from top-10 status to me. Can the guy rap? Yes, lyrically he's up there no doubt. However, in everything other than the sheer lyricism and flow, he begins to falter. Even his evolution factor is an 8 to me, not a 10, he stuck to one niche and began brilliant at it. He went from doing drunk, emo covers of tracks to doing sad, emo originals with an intimidating aura rather than 'gimpy emo' instead... Not really much evolution but some, yes, I can also tell his flow has become apex over time rather than just good.
Asa and Mr Traumatik
Both of these, despite very different styles, are gaping 'no way to be top 10'. Asa has the production level of what I thinkhe actually is; an amateur dude in his basement with makeshift soudnproofing or when his parents are out. He's not really good at delivery at all, his flow is broken and all of that. He has talent at lyrics. I'm not ridiculing Asa, I think all of us on this site unless we had professional experience, sound kind of like Asa when we try. There's a difference between a top 10 rapper and a good rapper, Asa aint it. Not yet, at least. Shouldn't even be in the damn conversation.
Neither should Mr Traumatik. That guy's flow is so rough and jagged, idk what bars from him astound Pro but they're a minority for sure.
Eazy Mac
You know what's funny? I actually like Eazy Mac's raps at times (especially when BSP isn't rapping with him). I have him on a playlist or 2 and he's alright. He's a good rapper, like he has rapping talent and as much as I think he's a gimmick and not all that impressive as a person, I can dig him. I just have to wonder though... Why wasn't he higher on Pro's list? Like if you're gonna roll with Eazy Mac in your top 10, what the FUCK are you doing putting him below BSP, Traumatik and Asa? None of those, including, Mac, belong in a top 10 rapper end-list but only Eazy Mac at least deserves to be in the preliminary discussion.
I will admit it, this ridiculous shallow rapper has true talent at rap and has indeed refined it in a way that can impress. He should not be in a top 10 though. Just no. He only raps about drugs and literally dedicates to rapping nonsense but... Well... So do some in the top 10 at times. I can see how this guy can somewhat end up there to some using a different ranking system, he even has a lot of evolution factor to his rapping, he began pretty lame.
G-Mo Skee (not 55 wth lol)
Okay so the thing with this guy is he has too much niche to his stuff and he just was cursed with a really bad voice, on par with BSP. I think BSP could actually deliver semi-decently if he stopped the autotune and tried a different style. However, sometimes you have a voice that just can't sound truly pleasant. BSP and G-Mo Skee have this same problem. The real issue is that because G-Mo Skee dedicates to horrorcore nasty, angry rap, he has to shriek his voice to deliver the vibe/aura... Which doesn't work when your voice is high without sounding so irritating as hell.
Another issue is that he really doesn't have seamless flow, he pauses and has rigid structure. His best rap ever was actually one hedid with Paz imo:
I reckon Paz helped him refine his flow in it (as in helped G-Mo edit his bars, nothing wrong with it, G-Mo admits Vinnie taught himthings, I noticed after this collab that G-Mo began to flow better at least than he used to):
I like G Mo Skee as a rapper, he's talented indisputably but he is not a top 10. No way. Many flaws to his range and work (he's a 2/10 range guy).
Devlin
This dude is on another fucking level to anybody in the UK scene, first of all. Ghetts, Chip and P Money hold candles to him in their own ways but Devlin is truly, genuinely, on another level. Some will say I'm racist as I'm saying he's better than all the black rappers but he is just better, period. Idc what anyone says, he's a different breed, you can't explain it. There are rappers good like him in UK but who don't flex it how he does. Chip and Ghetts are definitely 2 of them. Chip and Ghetts go lazier at times, there's no denying it. They are not bringing their a-game every rap. Devlin is just so fucking brilliant that he doesn't even need a 10/10 range to his work to end up in the top 10. He really is refreshing too, he's evolved decently.
I can't tell you how good he is in words, I am telling you Devlin is good as my top 4, just in a different way.
Now let's show you 3 more masterpieces per rapper except the ones Pro showed for me:
KXNG Crooked (from same State as Lock)
Lie To Me ~ He is Crooked I, it was his old artist name
Devlin
Castella Freestyle (no chorus/hook but prewritten)
Locksmith has 6 overall tracks given (same state as Crooked)
Vinnie Paz
Apathy (from same State as CW)
Sa-Roc
Chris Webby (Same state as Ap)
Round 3
Pro
#5
Eminem
How can you argue that someone is better than Eminem? At most they can be equal because you would have to be perfect to be better. Eminem has the most vocal/stylistic range of any rapper and if you look at his discography he has consistently been able to switch up his style while remaining 7-9/10 since his mid twenties.
How can you argue that someone is better than Eminem? At most they can be equal because you would have to be perfect to be better. Eminem has the most vocal/stylistic range of any rapper and if you look at his discography he has consistently been able to switch up his style while remaining 7-9/10 since his mid twenties.
The following songs are to show how different he can be from himself but still good.
K-Rino
He is so lyrically insanely good compared to other rappers that you are just over-valuing production quality (which has to do with who you know and how rich you are more than talent as an MC unless you produce your own music which isn't "rapping" in itself) unless you have him in your top 5.
Golden BSP
I admit there is no objective basis for my placement of him. Your dislike of him is equally subjective though and that is the beauty of it. Unlike K-Rino or Eminem who objectively deserve a high place Golden BSP is someone you have to "feel" to appreciate their music. You have to just like him and if you don't like him you tend to hate him which makes it even better because I can troll you by choosing him.
I admit there is no objective basis for my placement of him. Your dislike of him is equally subjective though and that is the beauty of it. Unlike K-Rino or Eminem who objectively deserve a high place Golden BSP is someone you have to "feel" to appreciate their music. You have to just like him and if you don't like him you tend to hate him which makes it even better because I can troll you by choosing him.
Con
#6
THIS IS FIRE IN THE BOOTH 3 BY DEVLINI
I messed up the URL, apologies
I messed up the URL, apologies
Pro has offered you absolutely 0 metrics or justification for the ordering he has. His justification for Eminem being apex is that he is rich and skilled at rap, yet the number 2 artist is not rich at all.
I have no idea what Pro's list is based upon.
I made a mistake, Webby is actually an 87/90 not 86 and all were added 10 to as I assumed it was out of 100. Beyond that, I think my list is pretty solid. There's pretty much no arena or scenario where Pro's 10 beat my 10.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Hands down the winner, because of the qualification for each rating. It was a very impressive presentation of a subjective topic, presented with an understandable rubric.
I am not sure I agree with either list nor would I opine why. Too much subjectivity. Props to both for a great dialogue about it, however, Con is correct, Pro gave no justification for the rankings.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Conduct to pro for putting some of cons material into his own round by request.
Arguments go to con by a wide margin. Pro has the implicit metric of if already a fan, whereas con had several in a likely attempt to broaden our music taste.
I’m predictable, I love Eminem; but that appeal to what I already know for no reasons I don’t already have, are not valid for voting on a debate.
Regarding argumentation… asking how someone can argue something, is a fine bit of rhetoric, and yet it actually drops the point when someone just did.
It's been a long, and I mean a long time since i've seen some of these people mentioned.
It's on my list to vote after the other rap battles.
Thanks for the vote.
Please vote if possible. I messed up my metrics as it's actually out of 90, not 100 and Webby is 87 not 86 but in general it's fine what I've done.
https://youtu.be/IuwI8jd0J78
Listen to this. This is what BSP tries to be, but 10x better.
https://youtu.be/pok8H_KF1FA
Skip to 1:50
She largely produces her own beats btw. She was a soundcloud grinder that made it big. Doja Cat is the right kind of gimmicky rapper, she knows how to do it and be it. BSP is nowhere near her even as a skilled gimmick rapper.
Doja Cat is a superior rapper to BSP, Traumatik and Asa.
You don't get how to rank.
You seriously undervalue delivery and quality of lyricism.
Asa is inaudible for over 65% of his rapping.
As we arent friends anymore and you seem to troll me every chat, Idk what to tell you or how serious to take any of this.
You are not the guy I enjoyed before. I was expecting a serious debate and clash, this was a steamroll.
I knew you would hate it lol
BSP in your top 3 is enough to ban you from the whole Internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTgmcTFGMcY
THIS IS FIRE IN THE BOOTH 3 BY DEVLIN
i messed up the URL, apologies
Actually since I didn't represent them with an explanation, it's better to give you the three tracks I'd use in case you want to 'argue against' the 3 chosen which is not really the focus but whatever.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKzzZKbkowk
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRnXBYiyzXQ
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL805nLCL20
please post them if you are willing to.
Fuck I forgot to show 3 Apathy tracks. Will do in next round.
that took a lot more effort to do than I thought it would.
The first rule is that you can suck my cock after it is dowsed with a fibonacci spiral of hot sauce. The second rule is that you must give your honest to God list, lest your soul be damned. The third rule is that you must only overlap if you can say that Jesus would come to earth and agree that you aren't overlapping just to fuck me. As long as you aren't trying to fuck me in Jesus Christ's holy name you may overlap. Or may your filthy soul be damned amen.
What are the rules about overlap?
Rino and Em are definitely in mine and depending what I decide later, Tech, Merk and Lock may be there too.