Instigator / Pro
0
1309
rating
270
debates
40.74%
won
Topic
#4820
Bible contradicts itself when it talks about God being good
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Winner
0
1
After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...
Mall
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Two weeks
- Max argument characters
- 5,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
1
1476
rating
336
debates
40.77%
won
Description
Definitions
God - All powerful and all knowing being
I must base my arguments on scripture alone.
Round 1
Pro
#1
Thank you Mall for accepting this debate.
We are discussing specifically the scripture.
In the scripture, it says that God is good.
I am going to challenge that claim using scripture itself.
I am going to use standards which scripture uses to determine whats good, and then use the examples of God's actions in the scripture that dont fit in the definition of good provided by the scripture.
1. Standards for what is "good"
Bible psalm 145 9
"The Lord is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works."
Notice the part that I am going to focus on: "Good to all". That is the standard of the Bible, written in the Bible itself. God of the Bible must be beneficial to all. He cannot be more bad than good to someone. Also notice that everything which God does is tender mercy. Therefore, every God's action must display mercy. Every God's action towards everyone has to be merciful. That is what Bible defines as good.
2. God is not good to all
Bible Matthew 26:24
"But woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born."
We see that great eternal suffering will be experienced by Judas. It would be good for Judas, as admitted by Bible itself, if God never created him. God could destroy Judas immediatelly instead of torturing him. God knew that if he creates Judas, it will be very bad for Judas. God was not good to Judas when he decided to create him to torture him.
Conclusion
From this, God is not good to all, nor merciful to all.
Can you give answer to this? I kept it short, since I want to discuss this one point specifically.
Con
#2
"Bible psalm 145 9
"The Lord is good to all"
This is funny. The topic is not about "good to all people". Is God good period?
Scripture says taste and see that the Lord is good. Period. There's a period after good.
Do you see what I mean?
You can read that in the same book. Psalms 34.
It just tells you what He is.
You're going into about how He is treats all people. But what is He?
No wonder the original topic was along the lines of "completely good" but in that case, that topic could of been "Is the Lord God good to all people?"
I don't quite get what it is about Matthew 26:24 that relates to this.
Do you have scripture that says God is not good or evil?
Round 2
Pro
#3
Lets go with this.
Merciful to all = good.
God of the Bible = Not merciful to all.
God of the Bible = Not good
It would be better for Judas if God never created Judas. Where is mercy in Judas's eternal torment?
Con
#4
What you're going with is twisting the topic. The topic is not the definition of God's goodness which is apparently according to you. Everything has to be based on scripture.
You're supposed to have scripture that says God is not good.
The scripture says taste and see that the Lord is good.
You're not sticking to your own rules out of desperation.
Where is the scripture that says God is not good?
I got more scripture.
1 Chronicles 16:34
"Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever!"
He is good. I'm not twisting that. Leaving that how it is. It doesn't say he is good to all people. Just says he is good. That is the topic. Is he good? I found scripture that say so. You would have to find an exact scripture that says he is not to appear like a contraction.
In regards to Judas , I don't have bible that says anything about mercy eternally.
This is off topic but I'll entertain for edification. Judas because of God's love, compassion, mercy allowed him to live each day before he decided to do what he did. So he brought it on himself.
Lamentations 3
"22 Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
23 They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness."
In that regard mercy was given to Judas. Now it's your thought process to say God isn't good based on what you think about the end of Judas.
But the debate requires you to get scripture alone . So your thought process, what you think the Lord God being good means to you as far as the scripture is concerned is no good. No pun intended. No good as a lie. Scripture says let God be true and every man a liar. His words are pure, do not add unto them lest reprove you and be found a liar .
If you don't have the scripture saying God is not good, please admit you have nothing.
Round 3
Pro
#5
I came here to debate specifically Judas case. Where is mercy in Judas eternal suffering, being better if he was never created by God?
Round 4
Pro
#7
God is not good if he is not merciful.
Sending Judas to hell where he will be tortured forever, as opposed to simply destroying him, is not merciful, therefore not good.
Con
#8
Let's read it.
Give me scripture that says what you just said.
See because remember, everything you give is supposed to be based on scripture alone.
Give book chapter and verse where it says "God is not good if he is not merciful."
You got to be able to read that or else you're just making this up according to your own philosophy.
Scripture says beware of philosophy.
Call book chapter and verse where we can read "God is not good".
I've been asking for this round after round.
You continue to give me your words. You're going to be found in violation of Proverbs 30.
Call book chapter and verse where we can read "God is not good".
Give me scripture that says what you just said.
See because remember, everything you give is supposed to be based on scripture alone.
Give book chapter and verse where it says "God is not good if he is not merciful."
You got to be able to read that or else you're just making this up according to your own philosophy.
Scripture says beware of philosophy.
Call book chapter and verse where we can read "God is not good".
I've been asking for this round after round.
You continue to give me your words. You're going to be found in violation of Proverbs 30.
Call book chapter and verse where we can read "God is not good".
Round 5
Pro
#9
Good in the Bible is defined as being merciful, forgiving.
Where is mercy and forgiveness in eternal torment of Judas, as opposed to simply destroying Judas?
Bible says: "love your enemies, so that you may be perfect, like your father in heaven".
Where is love in eternal torment?
It would be better to destroy evil people than to torture them for all eternity. There is nothing good in eternal torture.
God knew that those people would be evil, still created them, gave them conditions which allowed them to create evil, and then punished them for being evil.
This makes God the creator of evil.
Con
#10
Boy we went through this quick.
When you have a biblical based discussion or debate, have the scriptures ready.
Be prepared to give book chapter and verse.
Obviously you don't have any. If we do this again, just say you don't have any bible when you don't so that you can speak as the oracles of God.
When you have a biblical based discussion or debate, have the scriptures ready.
Be prepared to give book chapter and verse.
Obviously you don't have any. If we do this again, just say you don't have any bible when you don't so that you can speak as the oracles of God.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
BoP failure, which is well caught by con.
Pro’s case for Judas, fails to show that he is tortured according to the Bible; merely that someone regrets him being born. Even if we take him for granted, showing hell in the Bible is still needed to show the contradiction in character of God.
there are no contradictions in the bible
I feel like b.k. needs to pace themself better.
I'm willing to debate this with anyone but you have to have scripture to back up everything you put out.
Are you willing to debate this one?