Instigator / Pro
0
1500
rating
2
debates
25.0%
won
Topic
#4944

Abortion is the murder of an innocent human life

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
0
4

After 4 votes and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...

Barney
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
500
Voting period
One month
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
4
1810
rating
49
debates
100.0%
won
Description

The moment that a human sperm cell (the male gamete) fuses with a human egg cell (the female gamete) in what is known as “fertilization”, a single-cell, human diploid zygote, containing all of the genetic information necessary to proceed seamlessly (if uninterrupted by accident, disease, genetic defect, or external intervention) in the human developmental process (i.e. zygote, embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, child, adolescent, adult) is produced. Let us consider the following to help clarify some of that terminology:

“Gamete”
• Gametes, commonly referred to as an organism's reproductive cells or sex cells, are haploid cells (which means that they contain one set of chromosomes). In most humans, a gamete contains 23 chromosomes, or rather, half of a human’s genetic information (typically, each human has 46 chromosomes).

"Single-cell, human diploid zygote"
• The cell is the basic structural and functional unit of life forms. Only things that are living (or were living at one point or another) are composed of cells.
• A human is a member of the species "Homo sapiens". The fertilization of a human egg cell by a human sperm cell cannot produce anything other than a human cell.
• A diploid cell is a cell that contains two complete sets of chromosomes (23 chromosomes from the human male gamete and 23 chromosomes from the human female gamete). All of the cell types in our body, are diploid, except for gametes, which are haploid.
• A zygote is an organism within the animal kingdom, which is in the first stage of its developmental process. A zygote's genome (all of the genetic information of an organism) is a combination of the DNA in its parent’s gametes, and therefore, a zygote is a genetically distinct organism from its parents.

Round 1
Pro
#1
Forfeited
Con
#2
Murder is a legal term, not applicable to non-persons.

If the very existence of living human cells counts as a person, then amputating and preserving human hands before dissolving the rest in acid isn't murder (absurd).

Besides, trespassing is a crime; and evicting trespassers is not. Even vampires require invitations before stealing your life.

Plus in the USA we banned slavery with the 13th amendment. Therefore all defense against being enslaved is justified to the highest level, ergo not murder.
Round 2
Pro
#3
Sorry about missing that first round, its been hectic.

Murder is a legal term, not applicable to non-persons.
Personhood is subjective. Laws should not be based on subjectivity.

If the very existence of living human cells counts as a person
Not all "living human cells" contain all of the genetic information necessary to proceed seamlessly (if uninterrupted by accident, disease, genetic defect, or external intervention) in the human developmental process.





Con
#4
Legal:
Laws are subjective, and ought to be for the very reason that justifiable homicide and murder differ. To kill another in self defense is not murder.

That a homeless person is kicked out of the house they are trespassing, is not murder, even if the homeless person dies in the cold.


Living Human Cells:
The hand given external resources could grow a full person. The fetus likewise requires external resources to grow.

If said resources are stolen from unwilling living people, it's a crime.
Round 3
Pro
#5
Laws are subjective, and ought to be for the very reason that justifiable homicide and murder differ. To kill another in self defense is not murder.
Correct. Laws are subjective, but they should be based on objectivity.

The hand given external resources could grow a full person.
A human hand cannot grow into a person, regardless of the resources it is given.

The fetus likewise requires external resources to grow.
Correct.



Con
#6
Legal:
"Should be" even if true, does not change things to make murder an applicable term for non-people.
Plus if fetuses count as people, they are fully responsible for their crimes (therefore not innocent).
This is a basic Catch-22.


Living Human Cells:
A human hand given external resources of cloning, can indeed be grown into genetically distinct person.


Key Dropped points:
  • It's criminal to force the unwilling to carry a fetus
  • Eviction regardless of consequence ≠ murder
  • Self-defense ≠ murder

Round 4
Pro
#7
"Should be" even if true, does not change things to make murder an applicable term for non-people.
You continue to use "person" and "people". Again, personhood is subjective. What is objective, is the creation of a new human life through fertilization.

A human hand given external resources of cloning, can indeed be grown into genetically distinct person.
The definition of Human cloning is the creation of a genetically identical copy of a human.


Con
#8
Legal:
Murder = unlawful killing
Abortion = legal
Ergo, abortion ≠ murder


Living Human Cells:
Cloning = copying
Both the zygote  and the hand must be copied several trillion times to become a viable organism.
That destruction of the hand ≠ murder, shows that it's the mind which is important; not the very fact of life.
The zygote may likewise be preserved for copying later, no lose occurs from delay.


Key Dropped points:
Extend, and add that unwanted fetuses ≠  innocent.
Round 5
Pro
#9
Murder = unlawful killing
Abortion = legal
This is accurate for U.S. law, however the U.S. is not the moral arbiter of truth; Many countries have laws that say the opposite. A more accurate summary of murder is "murder = unjust killing", which inherently recognizes that some countries have unjust laws. 

A hand doesn't contain the genetic info necessary to proceed seamlessly (if uninterrupted by accident, disease, genetic defect, or external intervention) in the human developmental process.

Con
#10
Legal:
murder = unjust killing
Late to challenge R1 definitions, and meritless without any refutation to abortion being justified (and eviction rather than killing).


Living Human Cells:
No human zygote has been successfully developed sans external resources (AKA, intervention). This leaves the zygote and the preserved hand more alike than not.
Further, no loss has been demonstrated from delaying said development to some future time when there is a willing host.


Key Dropped points:
Extend all.