Instigator / Con
0
1319
rating
260
debates
41.35%
won
Topic
#5275

We should have more gays and pedophiles in the world

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
0
1

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
2
Time for argument
Two hours
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
1
1706
rating
560
debates
68.13%
won
Description

No information

Round 1
Con
#1
Since I am Con, I will just give one counter argument:

Pedophiles are bad, and gays are often pedophiles.

Pro, go ahead and explain to us why there should be more of gays and pedophiles in the world, and not some other decent family persons instead who are normal and straight.
Pro
#2
Pedophiles are bad

Pedophilic disorder is characterized by recurring, intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behavior involving children (usually 13 years old or younger).

  • Pedophiles may be attracted to young boys, young girls, or both, and they may be attracted only to children or to children and adults.
  • Doctors diagnose pedophilia when people feel greatly distressed or become less able to function well because of their attraction to children or when they have acted on their urges.
  • Treatment involves long-term psychotherapy and medications that alter the sex drive and reduce testosterone levels.

It is quite important to know that you do not need to have ever acted on any of the attractions or urges to be included in 'pedophile' category. The behavior based on attraction is indeed under it but is not a definitive part of categorising it.

This means all minor-attracted people who are into very young especially, are automatically pedophiles. Practically every single pedophile who hasn't acted on their urges is intentionally closeted. They have absolutely no outlet and this is presumably because of 2 factors:

  1. There is virtually no sexual attraction in existence as taboo as this. 
  2. Psychiatrists will often betray you, plus they are expensive making the entire investment pointless. This is because the clause of them betraying you if you're a threat to others is extremely vague on the particular urge such as attraction that you may well never act on.
The Risk Posed to Sex Offenders in Prison
The sad fact is that the stories are true. Incarcerated sex offenders sometimes have a rough time in prison. It can be challenging learning how to survive prison as a sex offender.

At higher security levels (e.g., high- and medium-security federal prisons), sex offenders tend to be harassed, attacked, and brutalized. This is part of an institutional culture if not supported by the prison administration, then accepted as inevitable. This creates real problems for incarcerated sex offenders who often must “check-in” to the Special Housing Unit (i.e., solitary confinement) for their protection.

If sex offenders don’t check-in at rougher yards, they are sometimes “beat off” a yard. This is where a group of fellow prisoners knock the sex offender to the ground (often in the chow hall or in front of the lieutenant’s office) and stomp them in prison guards’ view. When this happens, the guards know it’s time for the sex offender to be placed in the hole for their protection (i.e., Protective Custody) and possibly transferred elsewhere.

To protect inmate sex offender populations, the Federal Bureau of Prisons has tasked nine prisons to specifically house sex offenders. These SOMP facilities have a higher percentage of sex offenders. Some suggest upwards of 40 to 60 percent of the inmate population is incarcerated for a sexual offense. These SOMP facilities tend to be much easier prisons, where inmates incarcerated for like offenses can survive and even thrive.

When considering how to survive prison as a sex offender, start by seeking SOMP placement. This virtually eliminates the age-old question of what happens to sex offenders in prison.

Even if they don't go to prison, the visceral reaction to them for their urges alone will even often play out among therapists/psychistrists themselves.

Exceptions to Confidentiality
States have broad responsibilities to their citizens. Legislatures along with ethics and legal scholars have grappled with determining the right balance between promises of confidentiality to clients and the need to protect the jurisdiction’s citizens from harm. All licensing jurisdictions in the United States have laws that place limits on the confidentiality of information relevant to protecting some vulnerable individuals from harm (Werth, Welfel, & Benjamin, 2009). Examples include mandatory reporting requirements for the suspected abuse and neglect of minors and mandatory reporting requirements for the suspected abuse and neglect (and in some jurisdictions, exploitation and self-neglect) of either the elderly or when more broadly defined, vulnerable adults.

These exceptions to confidentiality represent efforts to strike a balance between preserving confidentiality within the psychotherapy relationship and the need to protect vulnerable individuals from harm. The focus on the prevention of harm is an essential element; most mental health professionals are not required to report past criminal activity as it does not represent a threat of future harm to members of the public.

The notion that pedophiles are bad stems from the fact that those that act on the urges harmed children, preteens or teenagers (though if teenagers are 'developed' it is called a hebophile which is a different psychiatric status, less deviated from the norm let's say, than a pedophile).

This leads me into agreeing with Con slightly. Pedophiles are malignant and need to be stopped needing to act on their urges. The problem is that they have no way out.

There are no 'pedophiles anonymous' support groups, not even in prisons. There are no forums online outside of the horrifically unreliable dark web where you just have at best I would presume, a bunch of pedos trying to fight the urge speaking of how they are struggling to (otherwise why are they on the dark web in the first place). It really isn't a pretty picture for a minor-attracted person that just wants to truly have a way out. Some legally attainable way to quieten the urges. Also, this 'lowering of testosterone' doesn't do much for female pedophiles at all but that's another argument that I don't need to go into right now.

You see, my contention is as follows:

If there were many more pedophiles, scientists, whether psychiatry-oriented, libido-lowering oriented or any other variety, would have a larger sample size to research on and it would likely be less taboo to out yourself as one.

The very reason it's so taboo to out yourself as one is that the visceral reaction has absolutely nothing acting against it. There are enough alcoholics, drug addicts and sex addicts for example, gaming addicts too, to justify support groups being pushed to be made and for people to invest in business models that help them cope, whether therapy, drugs or general group-meeting provision where they pay a small fee to partake in it.

Instead, with pedophilia the very fact so many are closeted and the few who are outed are indeed so few itself leads to a deeper alienation. Being in hell alone is a lot worse than being in hell with 4 others suffering with you, just alone by the fact there's no one to scream with or share the agony with nor people to go 'damn I get you, try this technique' etc.

You need to understand, I am not saying there are too few pedophiles alive globally for scientists to research on and get reliable, verifiable results. I am saying so few would ever dare offer themselves up for any such experiment because so few exist in the first place or at least we all think so, it's a vicious cycle.

Similarly to how bisexuals and pansexuals can get away with passing as straight, I am sure that out of 9 people passing as adult-only attracted, 6 have some hebophilia and 2-ish have some pedophilia. Some that they bury away in a deep dark place they never let their mind wander or at least don't admit to a soul. This statistic is made up by me because I am referring to closeted pedophiles who are also attracted to adults. They are completely able to pass as 'normal' and under the radar and never out themselves. It's specifically this group that would eventually due to quiet whispers and higher frequency of 'to be honest I kinda have those urges too I am just lucky enough to be into adults' would occur at a higher frequency snowballing the entire society and psychiatric world to have a larger sample size of pedophiles to research on.

Honestly, I can be fully homophobic and just agree with Con on the other part and say okay let's say being gay is something to avoid and treat, if that were the case, apply all my logic to pedophilia to homosexuality as there's still a lot of taboo and 'bis passing as straight' applicable there.

Round 2
Con
#3
So my opponent thinks less children will be molested if there are more pedophiles in the world.

So if there is just 1 more pedophile who will act on his urges or might act, does same logic still work? Nope.

1 more pedo will not reduce molestation rates.

And my opponent being Pro means he must defend every case of the topic, so not just some ideal increase which he defended so far, but increase by 1 or even an increase where overwhelming majority are pedophiles.

But still, I dont find many people who would be Pro and put as much effort in this.

Well played.
Pro
#4
So if there is just 1 more pedophile who will act on his urges or might act, does same logic still work? Nope.
The topic has plural, implying multiple.

One can argue that 1 more pedophile may make no difference, you are right. I can also argue the 1 extra molested case of trauma leads to a brilliant freak of nature evolving from it. After all, many brilliant and successful people were clients of Jeffrey Epstein.

Gay people 1 more, 2 more you can say it won't make a difference, I can say it will be a freak case that changes the world in many ways, some/many positive. We have no idea if the next Einstein, Tesla, Mozart...

These are letters Mozart sent:
A letter dated 5 November 1777[3] to Mozart's cousin Maria Anna Thekla Mozart is an example of Mozart's use of scatology. The German original[4] is in rhymed verse.
Well, I wish you good night, but first,
Shit in your bed and make it burst.
Sleep soundly, my love
Into your mouth your arse you'll shove.[5]
Mozart's canon "Leck mich im ArschK. 231 (K6 382c) includes the lyrics:
Leck mich im A[rsch] g'schwindi, g'schwindi!
This would be translated into English as "lick me in the arse, quickly, quickly!"



And my opponent being Pro means he must defend every case of the topic, so not just some ideal increase which he defended so far, but increase by 1 or even an increase where overwhelming majority are pedophiles.
No it doesn't. I literally said the reason they're struggling to out-the-closet and treat pedophiles is primarily due to the fact they're such a severe minority (at least in appearance) such that many stay under the radar and those outed are too small a sample size to draw reliable data from (after all you only have the ones impulsive and criminal-minded enough to both act on their urges and get caught in that sample, combined with those too immune to typical fear to kill themselves before enduring how prison treats pedophiles, making them skewed).