Instigator / Pro
7
1309
rating
272
debates
40.63%
won
Topic
#5384
In most cases, child marriages should be legal (For WyIted)
Status
Voting
The participant that receives the most points from the voters is declared a winner.
Voting will end in:
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DD
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HH
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Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- None
Contender / Con
3
1507
rating
12
debates
70.83%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
Pro
#1
Definition
Child marriage - a marriage between an adult and a child or a marriage between a child and a child.
All of my opponent's arguments are wrong.
All of my arguments are correct.
In most cases, child marriages should be legal because:
1. Children have sexual urges
Sexual urges dont start at age 18. In fact, they sometimes start as young as 7 or 8. Some children masturbate as young as 4.
In USA, 30% of children had sex before age 16.
50% of children watched porn before age 13.
30% of children had sex before age 16.
Thats over 90 million people in USA in total, but almost none ended in prison.
And thats just whats reported by surveys.
The main point is that children arent going to stop having partners just because its banned.
Ban just makes it impossible to regulate, as relationships become unknown.
Whats unknown cant be regulated.
People claim that children shouldnt have sex because they cant consent and it doesnt benefit them.
That means children cant have sex with other children, which increases pressure and judgment upon children.
But 30% of children have sex, either with adult, either with other children. 50% of children watched porn before age 13.
2. Children have problems in controlling sexual urges
Children struggle to control their sexual urges. There is simply no way from preventing children from acting on their urges. Children have urges. Children need a safe outlet for their urges.
3. Marriage is the best way to control urges
Having multiple sexual partners is harmful. However, children will act on their urges. Marrying to a person and committing to that person is the best for those children who have problems with urges. If children dont marry, then they will have more sexual partners.
If children do marry, then they will have less sexual partners. They will bond with one partner.
Marriage will allow them to have stable relationship before they reach adulthood.
It will help them avoid making risky choices later on in life due to loneliness or restlessness.
In marriage, they would have sex with just one person, which is the safest type of sex. Even if marriage ends in divorce, it still limited the amount of sexual partners while it lasted. Child marriages usually last for many years or for a lifetime. Child marriage makes a person commit to just one person while marriage lasts.
4. If there is no child marriage, there is harm
Legalization would help protect children from exploitation by ensuring they have legal protection under the law, and that relationships are regulated by the law. Without marriage, children will still have sexual urges and will still act on them. They will do so with much more partners. They will change lots of partners and increase risk of STI and STD. Having lots of partners throughout life increases depression and suicide rates. Marriage would make it so that child has only one partner and is committed to one partner, and not separated from the partner by others. Stigma causes harm to children. If there is stigma, stigma causes harm to everyone in adult-child relationships. If child marriages are banned, then there is stigma on adult-child relationships. Legalizing child marriage would help to reduce the number of people who resort to sex work in order to earn money. People who resort to sex work are often those with failed relationships early in life. Child marriage helps protect relationships.
5. Banning child marriages increases prison population and torture in prisons
Torture is a very serious problem in prison. Prisons are, in most cases, forms of torture. Prisoners are often treated poorly, abused and violated.
Not arresting adult who has sex with a child means that adult will have sex with a child and adult wont be tortured in prison.
Arresting adult who has sex with a child means that adult will have sex with a child and adult will be tortured in prison.
Having sex with child and being tortured is more harmful than having sex with a child and not being tortured.
Arresting adult who has sex with a child is more harmful than not arresting an adult who has sex with a child.
Decreasing prison population would improve lives. It would also improve economy, with less people in prison there is more available workforce for buisnesses.
6. Allowing child marriage increases child's happiness
Removing stigma would help children who are in sexual relationships. It would allow them to marry the person that makes them happy. Children in foster care would also have opportunity to marry and be saved from foster care. Child marriages save children from poverty. They make it possible for children from poor families to marry and live in a wealthier, better family. This helps those children, as well as their families who no longer have to provide for the child by themselves.
7. Society should listen to child's voice
Most of children who are in relationship with an adult dont want for that adult to go to prison. Sending that adult to prison would destroy child's happiness. It is better to let them marry. Society cannot decide what child does with own body. Child's body belongs to the child, not to society. Children have autonomy. By law of autonomy, you cannot use someone else's body without consent. Allowing young people to make decisions about own bodies without fear of judgement creates safe environment. In such environment, everyone feels that their decisions are respected no matter what kind of a relationship they are involved in. This promotes overall sense of autonomy among all population. Giving children ability to choose allows them to decide about their relationship which they are involved in, as opposed to adults making those decisions instead of them.
8. Banning child marriages causes trauma for the child
If child has a parter, if child is in love with that partner and if that partner makes child happy, to separate them would cause trauma for the child. They should be allowed to love each other and give each other happiness.
9. Historical proof of valuing marriage and valuing child marriage working for the benefit of children tells us that child marriage isnt bad
In countries where child marriages are legal and where marriage is valued, there is much less STI, STD, and much less suicides.
In Afghanistan, child marriages are common. Marriage is encouraged and divorce is discouraged. Afghanistan has more birth rates, less suicides, less divorce, less STI, and less STD than USA. If arranged child marriages have all those benefits, then it logically follows that valuing marriages and child marriages is good. Of course, I argue for child marriages that are not arranged by adults only, but also where child desires to be in that marriage. Such marriages would provide even more benefits for children. Child marriage also increases care between people, as it strengthens ties between families.
10. Allowing child marriages controls birth rates much better
Woman will give birth to most children if she starts giving birth as early as possible. The longer she waits, the less children she can give birth to. Allowing child marriages makes it possible to raise more children. Allowing child marriages lowers the cost of raising children, as children no longer have to be provided by the parents until 18. Child marriages lower birth rates if society regulates them to lower birth rates. Society can educate children and teach them about safe sex in marriage, and about how to prevent getting pregnant. Banning child marriages increases birth rates more than allowing child marriages and regulating them to lower birth rates. When child marriages are banned, children still have sex and get pregnant more. They are not guided and regulated by society if child marriages are banned.
Child marriages historically do tend to increase birth rates, which is beneficial for society.
Banning sex with children does not benefit children, because children cannot be stopped from having sex and judgment from ban just harms them.
Usually, it is better to regulate something than to ban it.
11. Allowing child marriages helps adults, teenagers and children who are attracted to children
There is a significant amount of people who are sexually attracted to children. If society condemns child marriages, and calls those people monsters, then those people feel bad from their teenage years when they realize that they are attracted to children. Allowing child marriages would help them satisfy their urges in a way that is safer.
About 15% of minor attracted persons are children and teenagers who feel pressure because of society's judgment.
12. Allowing child marriages allows society to better regulate adult-child relationships
Most of adult-child relationships are never discovered. Both adults and children in such relationships have no one to guide them or to set rules of behavior. Adult has no guide on how to better treat a child. Child has no guide which could explain to a child how adult-child relationships are supposed to work. Allowing adult-child relationships changes that. Allowing adult-child relationships by allowing marriage would mean that both adult and a child would get more advice from others, and child would be better protected. It would be possible to regulate those relationships, and make them better for children and secure that children are happy in them.
This topic does not deal with abusers. Abusers should still be punished. However, if an adult is kind and friendly to the child and doesnt force a child to anything, and if child is happy and wants to be with that adult, judging such a relationship would be harmful for that child and for that adult.
Punishing such an adult by torturing him in prison is wrong. Prisons are always torture, as lack of desired options is always a torture.
Sources for information used in this debate:
"The Trauma Myth" - book about adult-child relationships. Its available for free online.
Con
#2
When discussing child marriage it is useful to think about what that usually ends up looking like. Typically it's an older man in his 30s or older who is married to a female child. Since we have several examples of legal child marriage, or societies where it is technically illegal but rarely enforced. The studies I cite are mostly going to come from looking at the effect on child marriage in those areas. So any argument that the stigma is what causes the real trauma is incorrect. However let's imagine a world where child marriage is legal but there is still a lot of stigma attached to it. You would still have to deal with the fact that child marriage is responsible for the harm of this stigma, as the stigma can be avoided by simply not allowing the child to have sex with a grown man.
# What harm does child marriage cause
## Complications
The leading cause of death in adolescents in low income countries is pregnancy and birth complications. pregnant children are less likely to get prenatal care and get help delivery from unskilled people as opposed to medical professionals. [1]
Childhood pregnancy also causes a higher than average mortality rate for miscarriages and newborn deaths than if a girl were to wait until she is 18. If you have a baby as a child you are about 3 times as likely than a mature adult to have the baby die prior to or just after birth. You are far more likely to have a premature delivery which can have lifelong devastating affects on the baby, assuming they survive the preterm birth. [2]
## Worse life for the child bride
little girls in these marriages to child molesters are far more likely to be abused physically and sexually. [4] They are more likely to get aids, and numerous other STDs. [5]
The children in these marriages are obviously in controlling abusive relationships so they have a more difficult time controlling their reproductive choices. They don't have or are denied access to contraception and they are far more likely than adult women to resort to abortion. They also have shorter intervals between births which has been proven to be very harmful to the mother and the child's health. [6]
This might surprise some people but the result of all this is that little girls in these child marriages tend to have a ton of trauma and suffer tremendously psychologically. [7] The study cited shows a large increase in anxiety, depression, vitality and a sense of well being. Child brides described that it is very emotionally taxing to be a full time mother and wife and such a young age.
The child bride who becomes a mother (and most of them do in adolescence), is far more likely to suffer high blood pressure, preclampsia and obesity, and obesity is related to negative health outcomes like early heart attacks, diabetes and lack of mobility. [8]
## Economic impacts
A child that is married is ultimately ripped out of society and prevented an opportunity to participate in it and make economic pursuits to increase the well being of her family. Child brides are far more likely to drop out of highschool, be unemployed and even the children born to them are more likely to be in poverty and continue the cycle of suffering and starving. The women who manage to get employment in these situations is still worse off because the average income of a child bride who finds work as an adult is 10% less than somebody not deprived of their childhood[9]
Childhood marriage has a divorce rate of approximately 80% leaving more single mothers, causing significantly more poverty as now these young girls have to raise a child in a single mother home. [10]
## Children have sexual urges, but that is no reason to fuck them
Con argues that 50% of children watch porn. While I do find porn to be mildly harmful to a child I don't know that it is damaging enough to think having sex with the child is a better option. The physical symptoms of a child who has had sex with an adult is vaginal and anal tearing, massive pain in the genital region, difficulty standing and walking, bloody undergarments, yeast infection and urinary tract infection. [11]. The mental impacts have already been covered. The government giving you a piece of paper that allows you to have sex with a child is not likely to cause that sex to magically have less harmful impacts on a child's body.
Perhaps a better alternative is to teach a child that masturbation is okay and also teach them the importance of being very selective of sexual partners and practicing safe sex should they make the unfortunate mistake of having sex with a child close to their age. Parental supervision of course could always go a long way at preventing these scenarios to start with.
## Marriage does not have better outcomes
Pro argues;
"Having multiple sexual partners is harmful. However, children will act on their urges. Marrying to a person and committing to that person is the best for those children who have problems with urges. If children dont marry, then they will have more sexual partners. If children do marry, then they will have less sexual partners. They will bond with one partner. Marriage will allow them to have stable relationship before they reach adulthood."
These of course are unfounded claims with no citations. I have provided citations and showed that children are more likely to be divorced if they marry early.[10] so they don't end up having a more stable relationship.
pro falsely concludes that child marriage would lower the number of sexual partners a female has over her lifetime but people who have researched and done studies on this, actually show a significant increase in premarital sex (30% compared to 15%), but also a significant increase in lifetime sexual partners. [12]
## If there is no child marriage, there is harm
section 4 of pro's argument states the following without citation, so I think we can safely assume he is pulling the statistics directly out of his ass.
"They will change lots of partners and increase risk of STI and STD. Having lots of partners throughout life increases depression and suicide rates. Marriage would make it so that child has only one partner and is committed to one partner"
however studies collecting data on over 5000 girls in child marriages actually showed they had an increased likelihood of having STD's than those who married as adults[5] . So my opponent is just making some assumptions here without checking those assumptions.
My opponent argues that having lots of sexual partners over the course of a lifetime increases depression and suicide rates. This makes sense, my studies conclude that the increases in depression and suicide are more common in child brides than the general population. [7] I also argued in the previous section that child brides have more lifetime partners, so I won't dispute this statistic though he also pulled it out of his ass.
## Banning child marriages increases prison population and torture in prisons
in section 5 my opponent argues that prison is torture. It isn't it just sucks. He also says that putting the pedophile in prison would increase suffering because he still had sex with the child so now we add prison time on top of that. However we don't need to necessarily start imprisoning people. We just deny them marriage licenses. That on it's own will stop a lot of child marriages. However we still aren't increasing suffering by imprisoning these people. We are preventing all of the negative outcomes I listed in section one where I list harms to child brides. Maybe we arrest people before they get a chance to consummate their marriage. Maybe we catch them after they knock up their child bride once but we catch them in time to give the girl a real chance at life. She can abort the pregnancy and go on to get an education to mature and make sure she is in a position to be a more fit mother.
## Other rebuttals
My opponent argues that child births increase with child marriage but this is a negative impact on the child having a baby as shown above. It also has a negative impact on global warming. [13] My opponent argues that it is always better to regulate than to ban something but putting an age restriction on marriage is a regulation. It's a nonsensical argument. Pro also argues that we should listen to the children, and by banning child marriage we are. these young girls do not want to be physically and sexually abused, they don't want to miss out on economic opportunities and they do not want to throw away their childhood to raise a baby and take care of a husband before they are ready for such a big responsibility.
sources
Round 2
Pro
#3
All of my opponent's arguments are wrong.
All of my arguments are correct.
It stands correct that in most cases, child marriages should be legal.
My opponent's arguments are negated by these arguments:
13. Great majority of adult-child relationships are not violent
In great majority of adult-child relationships, adult never used force or threat against a child, and never caused pain to a child. In great majority of cases, adult didnt have real sex with a child, but only did gentle sexual activities.
14. Children can consent to be happy
Relationship with an adult in most cases causes happiness to a child. If the adult was friendly and nice to the child, respected child's desires and interests, and respected child's consent and respected what child says, then he didnt force a child to anything.
That is the opposite of forcing. To say otherwise would make every activity with a child forced, including school, playing, learning or reading bed time stories. Force would become an irrelevant word that can be applied to every activity. If the adult is kind and friendly to the child and doesnt force the child to anything, then the child will like that adult.
Children know what happiness is.
15. Child marriage increases relationship stability
Allowing children to marry gives them more control over their lives. If two young people have known each other since childhood and decide they want to get married before reaching adulthood, then this would give them more stability in their relationship than if they were not allowed to marry until 18. This would also lead to better financial security. Marriages provide more wealth than if person lived alone, while they cut down on expenses.
16. Child marriage improves education for children
Child will have much better education if married, since then both the partner and parents can provide for the education. That is more resources than having parents alone. This especially helps single parents. Allowing child marriages also removes stigma from sexual education, allowing children to be better educated about their rights in a relationship, and about how to protect themselves from diseases.
They dont learn that when child marriages are banned, and banning child marriages doesnt stop adult-child relationships.
17. Child marriage protects pregnant teens and unborn children
There is a common misunderstanding that banning child marriages prevents early pregnancy. It does not.
Allowing child marriages allows society to better educate children, and lower or increase birth rates if necessary.
Without child marriages, children still get pregnant. However, it is more difficult to regulate and educate children about safe sex if child marriages are banned. It is also more difficult for pregnant teens to maintain their relationship if they are judged and not allowed to marry.
Pregnant teens often have their reputation ruined by pregnancy. Sometimes they end up as single mothers. Sometimes the father of the child leaves the pregnant teen due to society's judgment. Sometimes a teen is forced to have an abortion due to stigma, and due to the lack of marriage that is needed to have economical stability and support to raise a child. Allowing child marriages would prevent this.
Being allowed to marry, and father being made responsible for his child would help pregnant teens and unborn children.
18. Children are held accountable for their actions
We cannot say that children arent accountable for their actions. If a child commits a crime, child goes to prison. If child behaves bad, child gets punished. In the same way child is held accountable for bad behavior, the decisions that child makes are also to be considered important.
We cannot say that child is only accountable when doing something bad, but not accountable when consenting to marriage. The decision of a child to enter marriage should be respected.
If a 12 year old murders someone, she would be charged. However, she wont be charged if she has sex with another 12 year old. But if she is 18 and has sex with a 12 year old, she will be charged.
Therefore, we see that person's age in one crime is much more relevant to sentencing than in the other crime.
In fact, in the case of sex, it literally goes from "not a big deal" to "very horrible" just because of the age of a person doing the action, not the action itself.
19. Child marriages are the tradition of our ancestors
By legalizing child marriage, we can preserve cultural heritages that have been passed down from generation-to-generation since ancient times.
Our ancestors married sometimes very young, at age 12 or 11. The age of consent 1000 years ago was usually 12, but it was not enforced and people married even younger.
Indigenous cultures around the world rely heavily upon early marriages between partners so that family lines remain intact. It also serves as strengthening of ties between clans through intermarriage agreements made prior birth.
This becomes difficult without legal recognition.
Allowing these practices legally ensures continuity within societies. It gives people freedom to express themselves culturally regardless of external pressures placed upon them by society.
20. Allowing child marriage gives child a choice
If a child is treated badly by her own family, allowing child marriages would allow that child to leave family and marry for someone who will treat her better.
Maybe you cant always find someone you love, but sometimes you can. That sometimes should not be prevented.
21. Banning child marriages harms innocent people who are in prison
There is no doubt that there are innocent people in prison. Some people didnt commit the crime, but the witnesses lied about them and put them in prison. If someone is put in prison for having a relationship with a child, but is in fact innocent and didnt do that, he would still be beaten and abused in prison.
22. Sexual activities in marriage are healthy for children
There are plenty of benefits of sexual activities and orgasms. The benefits include living longer, being less likely to get ill, having better mood and improved reasoning.
There is no reason to believe that only adults receieve benefits from sexual activities. Children receieve same benefits. Sexual activities make children happy when they are desired by children themselves.
There are plenty of examples of children engaging in sexual activities with other children. Child marriages make children happy and serve for their benefit.
Banning child marriages wont make relationships with children go away. Banning child marriages will just cause more broken relationships and more sex outside of marriage. Sexual activities are safest in marriage.
23. It is wrong to say that if children dont fully understand something, it should not be done
It is wrong to say: "Children shouldnt be vaccinated. Children cannot fully understand vaccinations. Children should not be born. Children cannot fully understand life.".
If children dont fully understand child marriages, that does not mean that child marriages are wrong.
Children can desire to be married. Children have partial understanding of child marriages. Partial understanding is enough to have a desire. Most adults dont have complete understanding of each other, as they cant read each others thoughts.
Allowing child marriages is beneficial for children. Child marriages make children happy and provide health benefits.
24. Judgment harms children
Society's judgment harms children who are in relationship with adults, teenagers or other children. They would not be able to figure out why society hates their relationship. This would make them feel shame, and be uncomfortable to even mention their relationship due to fear of upsetting others. The judgment would make them feel like they are approving of something bad and participating in something bad.
The judgment would make them blame themselves. It would make them more scared, confused, depressed and suicidal. That blame comes once they grow up and learn that society strongly judges such relationships. Its the society that puts pressure on those children and makes them think that what they agreed to was horrible. Also, they hear rape stories on media, and believe that they are bad for approving that which society condemns.
25. Judgment causes general harm
People often justify their evil actions by saying that they are still better than others. For example, a person might justify polluting the environment by thinking that it is not bad because he is still better than map which he judges. Judgment causes harm by harming children who are futute scientists. It harms innovation.
26. Child marriages help prevent violence over children
Banning child marriages wont make violence go away. Banning child marriages will make violence harder to detect. Allowing child marriages makes the relationship known. If the relationship is known, it is easier to regulate it and prevent violence.
Violence and dropping out of school is common in poor communities, just as child marriages are common in poor communities.
Banning child marriage will not make violence go away, as violent people dont stop being violent if they are not married to a person they commit violence against. Child marriages make the relationship known and easier to regulate, making it easier to prevent violence. In USA, there is plenty of violence over children, plenty of depression, plenty of suicides. Child marriages are banned in USA.
Sources for information used in this debate:"The Trauma Myth" - scientific book about adult-child relationships
Round 3
Pro
#5
All of my opponent's arguments are wrong.
All of my arguments are correct.
It stands correct that in most cases, child marriages should be legal.
My opponent's arguments are negated by these arguments:
27. Child marriages give the child more autonomy
Child's body belongs to the child. It does not belong to anyone else. Therefore, only child can make decisions regarding own body. Other people dont get to decide instead of the child. Child marriages allow a child to make a choice, and make it so that the child is better informed. Child marriages allow a child to marry for who child wants, who child likes, who is kind to child and who makes child happy, and who doesnt force a child. Children are not a property, and banning children from marrying who they want would decrease child's autonomy. Banning children from making important decisions decreases their knowledge about important things, and harms them once they are adults. Child marriage teaches a child to be more responsible by educating a child and giving child more knowledge in decision-making. Even if child makes mistakes, child learns from them, as opposed to not making a mistake and not learning.
28. It is not possible to prevent children from having sex
We see that it is not possible to prevent children from knowing about sex, with all the movies containing sex, and with child's curiosity to discover themselves, and with regular community talk which informs children, and with people who seek to inform children to build a relationship with them. You cant teach children not to have an urge. Entire history shows that controlling sexual urges is impossible to implement. It is also harmful and causes mental pain and discomfort, along with losing health benefits of sex, along with those who cant control their urges be judged by everyone and therefore, harmed. No country was able to stop children from acting on their urges, or adults from being with children. When it comes to sex, no country has lowered sex rate by making it illegal. They have increased prison population, and caused many problems such as adultery, but they didnt lower the percentage of children who had sex.
29. Future consent tells us what is right
Preventing children from learning would be bad for them. Banning child marriages prevents children from learning. They will be less informed if they are not allowed to be in relationships. It was shown that child marriage benefits children by reducing depression and suicides, by reducing sex outside of marriage, by making children happier and healthier, by protecting children in relationships, by removing stigma which hurts children. It also helps better guide adults on how to treat children, as opposed to increasing prison population and torture. It was also pointed out that most relationships are never discovered and great majority of children dont want for their partner to go to prison. They keep same opinion even when they grow up. Their opinion should be respected. Children do not need to fully understand child marriages. Society can understand child marriages, and decide that children should be allowed to marry because of the benefits it gives. Children in child marriages are not on their own, as society and parents are there to advise them and protect them if something goes wrong in marriage. Banning child marriages leaves children on their own, as there is no one to guide them as the relationships are secret when child marriages are banned.Child marriage is a child's choice. When child grows into adult, she doesnt want for her partner to go to prison. Since adults are well informed, it follows that child marriage is well informed decision of a person who approves of her child marriage after becoming adult. This is what is known as "future consent". When child grows up, she agrees that her marriage as a child wasnt a bad thing.
30. Power doesnt matter in a loving relationship
Most of child abuse is caused by children. A 14 year old can easily abuse a 10 year old if in relationship with her. A 14 year old can easily abuse another 14 year old if he is much stronger than her. Even among adults, man can easily abuse a woman due to being stronger. Children are more likely to get abused by other children than by adults. Adults have more control over their actions. They can be better educated by society. They also have more moral maturity.In every relationship, one person is more "powerful". In parenting, parents are more powerful than children. However, in loving and consensual relationships, power doesnt matter as there is no force at play. Adult and child have attachment to each other. They love each other and make each other happy. They do that which both have the desire for. Child marriage helps create stronger attachment and increases happiness.
31. Child marriages prevent children from being in bad company
Most of the children who enter into bad company do so because they dont have guidance and because they desire sex. Child marriage satisfies child's sexual urges and gives guidance to children.
32. Child marriages ensure that children have same rights as adults
Children have the right to love and to form relationships. It would be cruel to deny children of that until adulthood, as certain percentage of children never reach adulthood. Child marriages are in child's interest. Future consent demonstrates that. Child desires love and creates attachments. To destroy child's love and child's attachment would be very cruel and inhumane, and would reduce children to mere property without a voice.
33. Banning child marriages increases the number of child sexual abuse
You cannot reduce sex with children by criminalizing it. The victims, as explained before, dont want to speak out. They like the adult and dont want him harmed.The number of abuse cases keeps growing. Map always assume they wont be caught. Due to lack of marriage and lack of legality, some map resort to having sexual activities with lots of children. There were even cases of one map being with over 100 children. Without the ability to marry and without legal protection, map person has less reasons to stay with just one child. There is no education to guide map in behavior. There is no legal law that he must follow. The longer map stays with one child, the more likely map is to get caught. Due to having to hide the relationship, map is more likely to end a relationship and seek other children when map suspects that the current relationship will be discovered if he continues. When child marriages are banned, map would impose himself more on a child, due to no education and no legal guide for behavior. Map is also more likely to use threats against a child, in an attempt to hide the relationship. Map is also more likely to hurt a child when child marriages are banned. This is due to less reasons to treat child well. If he is nice, he might go to prison. If he is not nice, he might go to prison. No matter what he does, he might go to prison. If child marriages were legal and regulated, map would be able to satisfy his urges legally and at the same time follow the rules not to hurt a child. He would be punished if he hurts a child, but tolerated if he doesnt. This gives him a reason not to hurt a child, as he would be much safer and in much better position if he doesnt. Most map are kind non-violent people. However, there are those who are violent. Banning child marriages makes them much more violent and harder to control.The proof for child marriages reducing sexual abuse is Afghanistan and USA. In USA, 30% of children have sex before age 16. In Afghanistan, only 4% of children are married before age 15. In USA, child marriages are banned and condemned. In Afghanistan, they are seen as normal. We see that allowing child marriages does not harm children, not in terms of scale and not in terms of abuse, as Afghanistan has less suicides, less divorce and less STD than USA. STD is confirmed even by random testing, and all sources agree that STD is lower in Afghanistan. Let us be reminded that Afghanistan is a poor country, and that USA is among world's most developed nations. The fact that Afghanistan has child marriages and outmatches US proves that there is value in child marriage.
34. Banning child marriages increases the number of forced abortions
If child is in a relationship with an adult, and if child gets pregnant and relationship is discovered, child will be convinced to have an abortion. Even if child doesnt want to abort, the pressure of adults will break her. The decision to have an abortion will be, by all standards, an adult's decision imposed on a child.
35. If child marriages are banned, child is treated differently
When the police gets involved, child is scared and confused. The police will persuade a child that what happened to her was wrong. Parents will continue the persuasion. Child will even visit psychologists who will add to persuasion. In short, entire society will try to convince her that the adult who was so kind to her was in fact a monster. This confuses the child who cannot find a reasonable explanation for adult's reaction, and is forced to accept adult's explanation that was imposed on her so many times. She simply isnt allowed to disagree, or she will be faced with more convincing, more emotional attacks and more visits to psychologists. Adults, who are in greater number and better at reasoning than she is, will simply outmatch her. That is the true power imbalance.
Sources for information used in this debate:"The Trauma Myth" - scientific book about adult-child relationships. It is available for free online, and it talks about how most adult-child relationships are non-violent and how most children who are in such relationships dont want for an adult to go to prison.
Round 4
Pro
#7
All of my arguments are correct.
It stands correct that in most cases, child marriages should be legal.
I want for my opponent to read my arguments, because my opponent's arguments are negated by these arguments.
36. This society doesnt care about child's well being
Plenty of people spank children, even tho it was proved by many studies that spanking harms children. Plenty of people give children junk food, knowing it is bad for child's health, teeth and brain, and that it causes obesity. Plenty of people lie to children and therefore, teach children to use lies. Plenty of people break the speed limit, knowing that it increases the chances of children being hurt and dying in traffic. They dont care. Plenty of people support circumcision, knowing that it harms children. Plenty of people dont bother to try to fix foster care system, knowing that plenty of child abuse happens in foster care. Children abuse children there. Plenty of people smoke, knowing it increases the chances of birth defects and makes children more likely to smoke. People upload porn to internet making it easily available, knowing that children might see it. Its not the map who needs to change. This society is wrong about child marriages. This society is blind. Its this corrupt society which harms children while claiming that map harm children. This society harms animals too, by torturing them, slaughtering them and turning them into meat. These are double standards that society should abandon. You cannot judge others for that which you yourself do.
37. Being married to adult carries benefits for the child
Child being married to adult will learn a lot from that adult, much more than she would have learned from having other child as partner. Adults are much more morally advanced than children and have greater knowledge. Child cannot teach a child as much as adult can teach a child. Adult is also more likely to behave well and maintain a stable marriage, where relationships between child and child are much more likely to break.
38. Banning child marriages leads to age discrimination
Adult child relationships are the crime in which crime is only a crime due to age of an adult. For example, two 12 year olds being in sexual relationship is condemned, but not a crime. But a sexual relationship between 12 year old and 18 year old is a crime. Therefore, person is assumed to have caused harm only because of his age, not because of the activity he does.
39. Banning child marriages harms child-child sexual relationships
Our society condemns children for having sex with other children and for masturbating. Parents still condemn if their 9 year old had sex with a 12 year old. Parents still shame 4 year olds if they catch them masturbate. This causes children to feel shame and guilt, which increases depression. If child marriages were allowed, relationships between child and child would also be better tolerated and children would be less depressed and less shamed for having sexual activities or masturbating. This would help them grow into free persons without judgment or fear.
40. Child marriages support LGBT rights
Trans children are being judged by our society, simply because our society believes that children shouldnt have a choice. The idea of individual's autonomy would be supported by legalization of child marriages. Child marriages support the idea of giving child a choice, which supports trans rights as trans children would be given a choice to make decisions about their bodies. Many people want to tell trans children that they are not trans, that boys cant dress as girls and much more. The idea that child shouldnt have a choice is a cruel idea, since some children never become adults. To deny them of choice during childhood means to deny them of choice for their entire life.
41. Banning child marriages harms economy and society
People who end up in prison stop being productive. Doctors who end up in prison are no longer able to provide medical services. Inventors who end up in prison will no longer invent. This makes everything more expensive, increasing poverty among adults and children. Children harmed by society's stigma will be less productive.
42. Survival of the fittest proves the power of child marriages and the value it has for society
Child marriage helped societies to survive. Societies before ours lived in a very difficult conditions. They needed to be at their best in order to survive. Those societies valued marriage and child marriage, and practiced it. If child marriage was bad for society, then societies who didnt practice it would be dominant. The opposite happened. Societies that practiced child marriage were dominant. Child marriage improved their birth rates, their economy and their ability to defend themselves. There were plenty of happy child marriages at that time. No one complained. Child marriage in ancient times saved children from being orphans. It took care of orphans. At that time, there was no foster care and no one wanted to take care of orphans except map. Without map, ancient orphans would all be reduced to begging in the street. People ignore all the benefits child marriages provided throughout history. Even Romeo and Juliet is based on child marriage that wasnt allowed to happen. Juliet was 14.
The birth rates are declining world wide. When child marriages were legal, in the past, birth rates used to be 6 per woman.Today, women are taught to wait until older. What they dont know is that the longer they wait, the less are the odds of giving birth.
43. Having unsatisfied sexual urges is like feeling pain
If map are allowed to have one partner, they can satisfy urges legally in a way that doesnt harm them. If they are not allowed any partner, they cannot satisfy urges legally at all. And urges would still be there. Having urges that are unfullfilled is an equivalent of pain, since sexual urges are very strong and people are ready to risk their life and freedom to satisfy them.
44. Comparison of child to a drunk person doesnt work
If a person who is not drunk has sex with a drunk person, that person goes to prison for rape.
If two drunk people have sex, no one will go to prison despite that drunk people cant consent.
Adult can get drunk and have sex with a child, and then no one would get charged for rape because adult wouldnt have power to consent to sex. We see that standards are inconsistent, and in one case drunk adult is considered as completely responsible but in other case completely non-responsible.
45. Attacking map means attacking victims of abuse
Life is not fair towards map. Many map were abused as children. They suffered a lot. To say that they should suffer more is a great injustice. This society abuses people and creates monsters. Stopping the abuse of map will help make society more humane.
46. Map are not at fault for being map
Map didnt choose to be map. It was never their choice. Yet they suffer because of it. They are in pain. They feel guilty. Life dealt them bad cards.
47. There is no proof that consensual sexual relationship with a child causes any harm
We have proof of stigma causing harm. We have proof of judgment causing harm. We have proof of broken attachment causing harm. We have proof of broken relationships causing harm. We have proof of multiple sexual partners causing harm. We have proof of non-valuing marriage causing harm. Do we have any proof of consensual sexual relationships in marriage that is valued causing harm? No. We only have proof of it benefiting the child.
48. What if your son or daughter was map?
Surely, you wouldnt wish them to be imprisoned or raped.
49. Some kids are very smart
There are 11 year olds with IQ of 160. Clearly, they can learn anything that an average 18 year old knows, if not even much more.
50. Children dont consent to be banned from choosing
Children want to have freedom like anyone else. They dont want to be property or have other people make decisions about their life.
51. What if you were map?
Surely, you would want for society not to judge you.
52. If everyone was map, society would still work good
We see from examples of old societies that they did marry young. It seemed to be one of the things which helped them thrive in a challenging world where mistakes of society could have easily led to extinction of that society. The issue today is that 90% of offenders are never caught and 90% of adult-child relationships remain unknown. If something is unknown, its impossible to regulate and ban is useless. If it was legal, there would be more education about it.
53. Adult-child relationships are less bad than circumcision
There is no logical explanation for why cutting a baby's penis is less bad than sucking it.
"Cutting baby's penis isnt traumatic for the baby, but sucking it is" is a logic that makes no sense.
If sucking baby's penis is bad for the baby, then circumcision is many times worse. Yet circumcision goes unpunished. We see that society is blind and unjust, so wrong about adult-child relationships.
54. What if the map is hot?
If map is hot, there is greater chance that little girl really falls in love with him deeply and really enjoys his company. So then it obviously isnt bad.
55. What if the little girl falls in love with map?
If little girl falls in love with map, she would be very hurt if society separated them. She would want to stay with him, and not be forcefully separated from him.
56. Making child marriages illegal would punish children with sexual urges.
Children with sexual urges would have no safe and legal way to satisfy those urges. Unsatisfied urges are like pain, which would ruin the lives of those children by forcing them into bad ways, such as watching porn or having lots of sex outside marriage.
Sources for information used in this debate:"The Trauma Myth" - scientific book about adult-child relationships
Why master D:
part of me wants to apologize for not keping good track of this, but you aren't giving me good effort either
Yeah, I have 5 rounds written in advance, so you could say I am "ready".
are you ready. That argument may be coming tonight.
I don't know that anyone needs to be punished, but sure. If we are going to have justice it needs to go both ways. My priority would be in developing ways to prevent child marriage and punishing people could be a part of that process but it wouldn't necessarily need to be.
You are wrong.
If you both do something bad, its wrong to want to punish just one.
Either want to punish both or no one.
If you did something bad but dont want to punish yourself, then how can you desire punishment for someone else who did something bad?
Didnt you both do something bad?
Can you explain in detail why it is wrong for somebody to prevent children bring raped because they did something bad before. I am having a hard time understanding your argument
Thats exactly how logic works.
You cannot punish others if you are bad as well but you dont want to punish yourself but just them.
Thats just opinion which exists in your brain.
I don't necessarily hate them. I feel bad that their mind has been imprisoned.
However not having a flawless history is no excuse to allow evil to go unchecked. Nobody has a flawless history and by the same logic I shouldn't be able to prevent a rape I walked in on because the rapid would say "look whose talking buddy you have an imperfect history as well"
We have to hold people accountable and we don't lose our right to call out evil just because we have participated in it.
Do you really think I shouldn't call out something like how Islam itself promotes a hateful ideology just because some Christians are hateful?
Well, I think its bad to hate 1 billion people.
Plus, Christians dont exactly have flawless history.
I don't think it's bad to hate a religion that promotes harmful things like beheading, suicide bombings and fucking children.
Sure, hate muslims more.
What really happens is that maybe muslims arent as bad as you paint them.
Let me guess the commentators ate all named Ahmed and similar names
Well, there is a huge difference between child marriage in islam and child marriage in some culture which promotes STD.
The comments on his channel disagree.
The comments on his channel think he won the debate.
Bk. That Muslim lost the debate. I watched it also. He started going into conspiracy theories in the end and backed Aledo to say only child marriages in Islam count
Also, its not unusual to debate child marriages.
There is a debate on YouTube, on ModernDebate about child marriages, and muslim debater defended child marriages.
Well, WyIted can use that argument, but I am rather sure I addressed it somewhere among 60,000 characters.
But even if I didnt, I will instruct voters to consider all my opponent's arguments as false so I dont have to address each individually.
> "because it seems like not all will fit"
A clear implicit argument against child marriage.
I just wish I set over 10,000 characters.
I should have gone with 3 rounds of 20,000 characters, because it seems like not all will fit and I might lack about 5000 characters, but thats okay, I will just have to delete sentences which repeat.
This is really just everyone's opportunity to justify their hate.
Because if they dont even need to justify it, then we are not really living in society based on justified opinions, which only works against said society so I am fine with that.
To the person who reported this debate: I agree with all negative sentiments toward it.
Muslims idolize a warlord who was also a pedo. This violates the rule:
“You may not engage in or promote the sexual exploitation of minors.”
However rules are somewhat context dependent. The context of both a mythological/historical figure, and that of a debate, makes it something that would be unhealthy for the site if we limited debates to topics we don’t find repugnant.
At the same time, the topic is so ugly that it’s hard for the comments to be worse than the base level it creates.
Additionally, while I’m pretty sure I used to have less chill and banned some deplorable users for being deplorable… It can be beneficial for certain things to be exposed to the harsh light of day, so that they may be figuratively lynched by logic.
Yeah, because I dont even need to read your arguments.
It is a simple plan. Agreed
I approach debates whatever I want. They are my debates.
So it goes:
Round 1
-my arguments
Round 2
-more of my arguments
-saying that your arguments are all wrong
Round 3
-even more of my arguments
-again saying that all your arguments are all wrong.
Its a simple plan.
How do you expect to defeat Joe Rogan in a celebrity tournament if you approach debates this way?
I have 5 rounds written before this debate even started.
I think it's likely a mistake to have your round 2 written before I write my round 1 lol
My plan is to win by ignoring your statistics.
I already have used max character space for debate, so I have no room to answer your statistics.
It is highly unlikely me and underdog will have the same arguments. I am just going to pust a bunch of statistics and than make ad hominem. Attacks
You dont have to write big comment.
Just after debate is done, post your opinion on what you think on the weight of my case.
"Why isn't it?"
I will post 4 more rounds of text, so just read it all and later post your opinion on it.
"FishChaser called those who support child marriages, "degenerate"."
No. FishChaser is my good friend. He is allowed to say that. I dont mind.
"Even mods use barfing symbols which is code for them thinking you are degenerate."
Yeah, but one can understand their point. In fact, their mere tolerance for me on this site is quite good.
->nor is every addictive activity same.
Why isn't it?
->If you are interested, follow the debate.
I can read what you said, but then I would make a very big comment that I'm sure you wouldn't want to respond to IN ADDITION to Wylted's response (and the other debates you have going on).
I'll see what happens though; I can't make it too long because I'm in comment mode.
Compare me to others who disagree with you on this. FishChaser called those who support child marriages, "degenerate". Even mods use barfing symbols which is code for them thinking you are degenerate. I have not done any of these things, and I easily could in order to score points among the majority. I have not; because I wrestle with the question and try to come up with something that makes sense instead of falling to peer pressure.
But you just dismissing me sassily is making my patience wear thin.
There are 4 more rounds of my arguments written in advance lol
While assigning zero points, my RFD is ready:
🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢
"But the theme is, "Should there be age restrictions on trying addictive activities?""
No, thats not the topic, nor is every addictive activity same.
If you are interested, follow the debate.
If you ignore what I say in debate, I will just ignore you.
->If you cant tell the difference between alcohol and sex, then there is nothing for us to talk about.
Well I'm a virgin that never consumed alcohol in my life.
-> This is not a debate about beer or alcohol.
But the theme is, "Should there be age restrictions on trying addictive activities?" (Whether that activity is sex, drugs, or other).
Young kids need levels of protection.
"How?"
If you cant tell the difference between alcohol and sex, then there is nothing for us to talk about.
"They are both mind-altering and prone to addiction."
That is "similar means same" fallacy.
"If 8 year olds were allowed to drink beer, then it would damage probably the majority of their minds significantly."
This is not a debate about beer or alcohol.
->Alcohol is different from sex
How? They are both mind-altering and prone to addiction.
->I dont exactly support alcohol ban either.
If 8 year olds were allowed to drink beer, then it would damage probably the majority of their minds significantly.
Alcohol is different from sex, so I dont know why you bring it up, although I dont exactly support alcohol ban either.
If 8 year olds are mentally capable enough to consent to sex and marraige, then are they mentally capable enough to consume alcohol? I'm pretty sure sex and marraige is the more serious thing (I support lowering the drinking age to 16).
My shame died from years of being abused as a child.
But I wasnt abused by pedophiles, but by non-pedophiles.
Absolutely shameless.
Fine
Please master, debate me!