Instigator / Con
0
1382
rating
463
debates
46.54%
won
Topic
#5885
Is Jesus Christ , son of God son of Mary in heaven now?
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...
Cman
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Two weeks
- Max argument characters
- 30,000
- Voting period
- Six months
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Pro
2
1500
rating
2
debates
75.0%
won
Description
Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.
Send a message for questions on the topic.
Please do not accept if you foresee yourself not having time to participate.
Round 1
Forfeited
1. Acts 1:9-11 (NIV):
"After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 'Men of Galilee,' they said, 'why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.'"
This passage describes Jesus' ascension into heaven.
2. Mark 16:19 (NIV):
"After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God."
It explicitly states that Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of God.
3. Hebrews 9:24 (NIV):
"For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence."
This affirms that Jesus entered heaven and is in God's presence.
4. John 14:2-3 (NIV):
"My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."
Jesus promises to prepare a place in heaven, implying His presence there.
5. Philippians 3:20-21 (NIV):
"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body."
This shows that Christians believe Jesus is currently in heaven and will return from there.
Now i understand that flesh can't reach heaven , but you should know 2 things , the first is that in Christianity as far as I know Jesus took on the mòrphe of a human aka the appearance of a human , by taking flesh , basically he was inside that flesh , he himself wasn't that flesh , and I believe the apostles were trying to say basically that flesh simply isn't what reaches heaven it's the soul inside that flesh , your spirit , and of course Jesus also was inside of flesh , so although his flesh won't go to heaven he himself will go in his natural form(whether you want to call it spirit essence or whatever the message is the same) and lastly I personally refuse to believe god will allow anyone believing to go to heaven but deny his own son(metaphorically or literally interpret it however you want the message is the same) to not reach heaven , and of course god can do whatever he wants , and can indeed make an exception here , now if you look at it from a Christian perspective then Jesus is suppose to be god , and really how would god himself not be able to reach his own heaven ? The heaven he created along with the rules to go into it including the inability to go there as flesh
Round 2
Thank you, for your participation.
Out of all the scripture you gave, none of which said Jesus, son of God, son of Mary went up into heaven.
Jesus, son of God, son of Mary, was flesh and blood.
Scripture say by the words you are justified.
I'm justified by the words Jesus, son of God, son of Mary, was flesh and blood was not received up into heaven.
They pierced him in his side and out came blood and water.
Jesus appeared to the disciples and said behold my hands and my feet, for a spirit have not flesh and bone. Where was the blood? Thomas wanted to see and press the wound and Jesus obliged, right.
But Mary's son was not glorified who was Jesus.
Jesus the son of God , the high priest, seen of angels, God manifested in flesh was received up into glory.
A side question : Do you believe the scriptures support Jesus Christ justified divorce of man and woman?
Those verses do indeed show he is in heaven , acts 1:9-11 literally says they saw him go to heaven , along with 2 mark 16-19 , Hebrews 9:24 literally says he entered heaven , john 14:2-3 literally says he is going to his father's house(obviously heaven) , now again god would have the ability to do anything he wants including going to heaven even as flesh , that rule would apply to humans sure , but not god's son/word/ god whatever you want to call it
Answer to side question:
No , divorce of a man and women was condemned , only allowed if the women cheated on her husband and even then that's allowed although I wouldn't say it's encouraged , I still believe he kind of encouraged married couples to stay married even if one cheated on the other z although again it would be allowed to leave each other in that case
Round 3
"Those verses do indeed show he is in heaven"
Let me try to help here because it's something technically here that you're not getting and haven't gotten so far.
When you say "he", "he" who? Was it the son of God flesh and blood who was the son of Mary?
If you say yes, you are saying flesh and blood is in heaven. Is that what you are going to admit?
"literally says they saw him go to heaven"
Right, that's correct. For the scripture say this
"same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven".
That lines up with the book of Hebrews chapter 4 since Hebrews was brought up, right.
In verse 14 it said we have a great high priest that has passed into the heavens.
According to chapter 7, still in the book of Hebrews, this priest was after the order of Melchisedec.
What was that order?
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Not the son of Mary. Mary was his mother.
"Hebrews 9:24 literally says he entered heaven , john 14:2-3 literally says he is going to his father's house(obviously heaven) , now again god would have the ability to do anything he wants including going to heaven even as flesh , that rule would apply to humans sure , but not god's son/word/ god whatever you want to call it "
I believe Jesus said the hour has come for him to be glorified. In first Timothy 3:16 it said preached unto the gentiles , believed on in the world, received up into glory. Even Jesus knew he was not going to be as he was as flesh and blood going into heaven. Glorified flesh , manifested flesh goes up . But not the flesh Mary gave birth to.
The scripture teaches of rightly dividing the word of truth. You have to rightly divide all of this.
"No , divorce of a man and women was condemned , only allowed if the women cheated on her husband"
According to the scripture, that is not true. Jesus never permitted or justified divorce and putting away.
Forfeited
Round 4
I rest my case.
Forfeited
Round 5
Case closed.
Forfeited
Nice opening argument. IMO you’ve reached the point that until counter biblical evidence is provided, you can just point to your existing case.