Instigator / Pro
1558
rating
78
debates
55.77%
won
Topic
#5926

One should believe in and practice the direct inverse of everything christians believe in and practice.

Status
Debating

Waiting for the next argument from the contender.

Round will be automatically forfeited in:

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DD
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Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Rated
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Minimal rating
None
Contender / Con
1702
rating
77
debates
70.13%
won
Description

No information

Round 1
Pro
#1
Theism VS Atheism

They say that ad-hominem is not a valid argument but I beg to differ. If literally only stupid people believe something and all arguments for that thing are stupid then there comes a point where that makes it less likely to be true, even if it isn't directly falsifiable as a claim in itself. The only way to "reason" that God exists is to ignore a billion other possibilities, theists usually say "something can't come from nothing therefore there must a first cause". Even if that was true, it doesn't have to be God and it certainly doesn't have to be YOUR God. The fact that such weak arguments are the best theists can do proves that theists are inherently stupid which indirectly supports the notion that there can't be a God.

Appeal to authority VS genuine compassion

In the Christian worldview morality must come from God to be valid, you can't use empathy or compassion to derive morality because "objective" morality comes from God. Ignoring the fact that God is an entity with personal preferences, making his morality subjective and just his opinion, it really doesn't matter to Christians what God says is moral as long as it comes from God. The Bible supports slavery, genocide, burning "witches" at the stake, stoning faggots etc. but God draws the line at having sex outside of a social construct (marriage). God doesn't have compassion for sentient beings and neither do Christians, Christians say that without God we are just an accident and there is no reason not to rape or murder etc. which exposes how evil Christians are. What gives a being moral value is having a subjective experience, ability to feel pain, a will to live etc. not agreeing with your beliefs or having a "soul" which is an excuse to care about human fetuses that aren't even sentient yet while you butcher sentient animals and more developed humans who aren't retarded Christians like you.

Hating pleasure VS hedonism

Suffering is treated as a virtue while pleasure is treated as evil in Christianity. This is blatantly retarded because suffering is nature's programming that is meant to tell you when something is bad for you. Avoiding things that feel bad and seeking things that feel good should be the default position and christians have a serious BOP on their hands to prove that the opposite of human nature and the opposite of everything enjoyable is what we should be striving for. There is such a thing as too much pleasure, but this is an argument that SUPPORTS hedonism rather than debunks it. The only valid reason not to do something pleasurable is that it leads to suffering in the long run or shortens your life span (giving you less time to experience pleasure in the future).


Science denial VS "trust the soyience"

Faith is antithetical to scientific thought. In faith the desired conclusion takes precedence over the evidence and evidence is sought after the fact so that a confirmation bias can be formed. In science the evidence LEADS to the conclusion. This doesn't mean that scientific consensus always has the right answer, but in life you have to gamble sometimes and anyone who isn't a retarded Christian would rather gamble on what the evidence leads you to. Whenever you have to take a leap of faith in life, you shouldn't actually leap based on faith but on the thing most likely to be the case based on the available evidence.

animal fat VS Veganism

This is an extension of "trust the soyience" and "genuine compassion". The opposite of Christian morality isn't amorality, because Christian morality is about reducing pleasure and increasing suffering while having no genuine compassion for sentient beings. To be the opposite of Christian, you must seek to reduce suffering and increase well being for all beings. Furthermore the Bible glorifies animal fat as if it is something to be prized, which according to the scientific consensus is the most retarded thing imaginable because the leading cause of death in the western world is heart disease and the leading cause of heart disease is animal fat/cholesterol. Everyone who isn't vegan is both evil and retarded, because it is not only one of the healthiest diets according to science (rivaled only by vegetarian, pescatarian and mediterranean) but THE ONLY morally sound diet.

shame VS pride

According to the Bible the human body is evil and human nature is evil. The first thing Adam and Eve do upon learning the difference between good and evil is cover their sexy, beautiful bodies that God is disgusted by even though he's the one who made them. Furthermore  humans are inherently sinners according to God, sinning is unavoidable and we all deserve hellfire by default just for being the way HE made us and that is why we can only be saved through grace and repentance and not through works. We should be proud of ourselves as humans, we have the capacity to be more benevolent than Yaweh and the capacity to be more rational than his retarded subhuman believers. Would you rather constantly be like "I'm so sorry for existing and being human God, please don't burn me in a lake of fire for eternity because of the way you made me be" or would you rather see yourself as a sapient, sexy and compassionate being?

human supremacy VS transhumanism

Paradoxically the Bible views humans as the ultimate creation while also seeing our humanity as something to be ashamed of. Also the snake in eden was trying to enhance us and have us become as God by having us eat the fruit, the first act of rebellion, the "original sin", was literally transhumanism. We should improve upon humanity and gain immortality with biotech rather than by sucking Jesus's imaginary cock. In fact our goal should be to BECOME GOD. How's that for anti Christian? You think God is God? No bitch, I'M going to be God! HAHAHAHAHA

Authority/choice VS Socialism/Technocracy

I like to think of socioeconomics/politics in terms of 4 types of decision-making processes. The prominence of each one in a socioeconomic system determines what type of system it is.

There are collective decisions, which are called "democratic" and the logical extreme of which is socialism/communism. There are individual decisions, the logical extreme of which is anarchism. There are authority-based decisions, the logical extreme of which is fascism. Lastly there are decisions based on a method based in reasoning or science rather than opinion, the logical extreme of which is technocracy.

Christians stress the importance of two things: free will and the authority of God. Instead of simply providing for everyone and basing decisions on what is logical and best for everyone, a truly christian system mirrors God's system for choosing who is damned and who is saved. Everyone is fucked by default but has enough "free choice" to have upward mobility if they make the right decisions. This is literally just conservatism/capitalism, a system where people who don't know what's best and don't care about you have authority but if you work hard enough and are lucky enough you can make money even though most people will be relatively poor or even starve to death on the streets.

Free will doesn't exist, and some people start off more privileged than others, so the "choice" part is just an illusion and everyone's well-being is determined by sheer luck and whatever benefits God/the wealthy.

Instead the optimal system is technocratic socialism, decisions are made based on what is best for everyone and this is decided based on facts rather than opinions.

Male supremacy VS Female supremacy

The Bible makes it clear that women are meant to be subordinate to men. This is retarded because women are better leaders and more compassionate than men. Men are good at physical labor and stuff like math whereas female brains are more developed in areas associated with social skills and empathy etc. Men are wired to be worker bees and engineers etc. Women are wired to be managers of people, teachers and caretakers whereas men are wired to lift heavy things and apply their left brain hemisphere to what women tell them to.

But I'm not done perverting God's plan yet though, oh no, because God hates fags and trannies after all.

Oppressing certain groups for their differences is a very Christian and masculine thing to do, so instead of men being seen as second-class citizens inherently it should be more like femininity is celebrated as a virtue and masculinity is downplayed.  male feminization should be celebrated and masculine roles in both society and in the household should be seen as something to be approached in a feminine way. The gender dynamics and roles should be twisted so that masculinity serves the feminine and femininity dominates the masculine. Not necessarily "men" and "women" but "masculine" and "feminine"


unquestioning obedience VS rebellion

At the heart of christianity lies pathetic groveling to an imaginary sky-dictator. The spirit of Lucifer is the spirit of rebellion, the spirit that puts a middle finger up to Yaweh's empty threats and bows to no one. There should be no class, there should be no Gods, there should be no people who go to heaven and people who go to hell, there should be enlightened humans and transhumans working together for the benefit of all.

I submit only to scientific facts, and I serve only the ideology of well being. The ideology that says I want to live and feel good, and I know you want the same.

I will never serve a God that says "go ahead and own slaves and stone gays, but you better not masturbate or smoke weed".
Con
#2
Forfeited
Round 2
Pro
#3
Con is experiencing some kind of problem posting his arguments so he is using the comment section instead. I will link to his argument and continue the debate  https://www.debateart.com/debates/5926/comments/62809


We are left with the impression that, speaking of belief, practice, and Christianity, Pro characterizes that religion as a single entity when, in fact, Christianity has some 200 separate denominations just in the U.S.; worldwide, there are a few thousand separate denominations with differing doctrine in their details. 

This isn't sufficient to establish that what I described isn't the direct inverse of christianity, as different denominations share core beliefs and values. 

All Christian denominations are theistic, the opposite of which is atheism.

All Christian denominations claim "objective morality" based on the authority of an entity who has condoned and even demanded for atrocities such as genocide. The opposite of all Christian morality is compassion.

All Christian denominations view hedonism negatively, the opposite of Christianity is enjoying things without guilt.

All Christian denominations glorify the concept of "faith" which is directly opposed to science because the conclusion comes first and evidence is secondary with faith whereas science is about deriving the conclusion from the evidence.

All Christian denominations follow translations of the Bible that grant mankind dominion over animals and talk about saturated fat as if it's a delicacy. The opposite of Christianity is veganism.

All denominations of Christianity claim that humans are sinners and bad people by default, the opposite of Christianity is having pride in yourself.

All denominations talk about humanity as God's ultimate creation (which is ironic since God hates human nature so much) and talk about a talking snake who is supposedly evil for trying to make us more like God. The opposite of Christianity is transhumanism.

All denominations of Christianity claim that Jesus is a "king" and worship a fascist and irrational God. The opposite of Christianity is technocratic socialism.

All denominations of Christianity accept misogynistic bible quotes as canon. The opposite of Christianity is valuing the feminine over the masculine.

All denominations view rebellion to God as a bad thing. Christianity is about being a sky-dictators bitch and the opposite of Christianity is rebelling against tyranny.

Even if you found holes in my theory, I could also argue that some denominations are more valid to define as "christianity" than others because some interpretations/translations of the Bible are more accurate than others and some church institutions are more historical than others. 



 
 For example, the familiar Christian doctrine, “do unto others…”[2] is a shared doctrine with Islam
This isn't even relevant since I'm not a Muslim, I'm advocating for inverting Christian philosophy whereas Islam is literally based on the Bible.

"do unto others" is just words, all of Yaweh's actions show 0 empathy. I'm sure Yaweh wouldn't have wanted to be killed in a giant flood just because his creator decided he didn't like the way he was made (which is entirely his creator's fault).

In order to invert everything Christians practice and believe in, you have to take into account that their catch-phrases often contradict their actual beliefs and practices. Actions always speak louder than words in those cases.

claims God, who, by Pro’s argument, is not supposed to exist, says, “Go ahead and own slaves and stone gays masturbate, but better not masturbate or smoke weed.” [3] I challenge Pro to offer book, chapter and verse from whence that quote is cited from the Holy Bible.
In the book of exodus part of God's list of laws include guidelines for how to treat slaves, not for how slavery should be illegal. In the new testament Paul also talks about stoning homosexuals.




On the other hand anything done purely for pleasure is treated as a negative thing. God sees feeling good as evil and hurting people who didn't hurt anyone as good.


but Pro did not entertain the subject of satanic belief or practice of direct inverse

Satanism isn't directly inverse to Christianity because Christians believe in Satan therefore belief in him aligns with Christianity, plus Satan is actually controlled opposition and everything he does is part of God's plan according to the Bible. Not to mention there isn't an actual consistent characterization of Satan, the Bible can be interpreted as referring to multiple entities as "Satan" including God himself. Satan is literally God's alternate persona according to some interpretations of the Bible.
Con
#4
Forfeited
Round 3
Pro
#5
1a1 Example, Pro’s R2 mention of fatted v. veganism. What does veganism have to do with theism v. atheism
This statement alone should prove that Con is merely dodging my points by labeling them with a fallacy and not adequately addressing a single one of them. Not every aspect of Christianity is a direct extrapolation out of theism any more than Islam is, because there are multiple types of theism that can totally contradict each other despite being theistic.

Not eating pork isn't directly related to theism either, but Muslims don't eat pork which is part of their religion which happens to be theistic. Hindus on the other hand are also theistic, but they are allowed to eat pork and not allowed to eat cows the latter of which Muslims are allowed to eat.

dismissing my other arguments because they aren't directly about theism is intellectually lazy. You aren't actually disproving my point about veganism you are merely dodging it with a cheap and nonsensical excuse and implying that because I mentioned theism and atheism first anything that doesn't directly relate to that is outside the scope of the debate.


 In the face of a Pro claim in R1 of scriptural support for slaves and gays, my R1 rebuttal [Ic] asked for a scripture reference. Pro’s R2 offered several [157, specifically, an two related websites], but they included Exodus 21: 16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.” Does not sound like a positive affirmation for either practice to me

You are relying on twisting the Bible's words to support your point, cherry picking a single quote out of dozens, all of which prove that slavery is allowed in God's law, to find one that MIGHT be interpreted as being against slavery provided you are illiterate.

If a human is considered property, you can "steal" them just like you can steal a car, and you can "possess" the stolen car/slave because it is considered property.

, I found in a sampling of >half of each, 40 of slaves; 80 of gays, sequential verses reviewed in each website. Of the 80 reviewed for gays, 62 made no mention of “homosexuals” or ”man laying with man,” 27 made no mention of putting anyone to death by any means

"Unless the Bible specifically mentions stoning and specifically words it as man lying with man in every homophobic verse, all the times God DOES say those things don't count!"

No, if God says that you should stone gays just ONCE then that means your infallible creator told you to go stone gays. So go be a good Christian and murder people for no good reason.

Fatted Christians exist. How about fatted vegans? Meet one.[3] So, where’s the direct inverse since it is proven that both Christians and vegans [some of each] eat excessively, regardless of the consumed groceries?

I specifically mentioned SATURATED ANIMAL FAT AND CHOLESTEROL. Every single one of con's arguments have been straight up intellectually dishonest in this round.


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