Instigator / Con
14
1764
rating
43
debates
94.19%
won
Topic
#597

The Earth is flat

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
6
0
Better sources
4
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
2
2

After 2 votes and with 6 points ahead, the winner is...

Ramshutu
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
8
1501
rating
2
debates
50.0%
won
Description

The speculative pseudoscientific hypothesis - and it’s variations - that the earth is flat is false. Instead, the earth is approximately spherical.

Con arguing for a spherical earth. Pro arguing for flat earth.

BoP on Con.

Here was the partial RFD, this is not a vote, merely sharing thoughts I had while reading this to help the debaters refine their future arguments...

The debate almost immediately shifted away from Con's opening evidence, so they will only be minimally addressed. As his evidence was dropped without direct challenge (I'll grant there was indirect), and the evidence was convincing, he attained base BoP (as I hate votes which don't go deeper, I'll continue).

I'd like to thank both debaters for using headings to make things easy to follow.

Argument lines:
1. BoP: Pro's discussion of this leads to his tactic, but he presumes an exclusivity qualifier statement which was not within "BoP on Con." It's a nice attempted gotcha moment, but unworthy of trying to replace the actual debate.

2. Alternative: Going to heavily paraphrase here... The Flying Spaghetti Monster (insert your favorite name for it) has tricked us into believing there's a world, but that spherical world is just an illusion. Pro got caught up trying to prove that if so voting for him still has meaning, but that strengthened the case that our observations of a spherical world have meaning (if the Earth is an illusion, and the illusion is spherical, then the Earth is still spherical). Pro's assertion that it's flat and round, conflicted with his BoP argument (if con indeed has sole BoP, both being true would give him the debate. It's with shared BoP that both being true results in a tie).

3. Obligations: Just BoP again.

Someone remind me in a couple days and I'll vote on this. Actually started to write one, but the arguments under separate headings are starting to blur together (I need sleep).

Vote Reported: Wrick-it-Ralph // Mod Action: Removed

Points awarded: 5 points to con for arguments and sources, 1 point to con for conduct

RFD: Con's argument had logical entailment and was at least reasonable. Pro went on a tangent and glossed over the real issue. Con was mostly composed but start to lose track of conduct later in the argument. Con won on sources by default because Pro only presented a BOP definition and a link to the flat earth society, which is a bias source.

Reason for mod action: The voter fails to meet the requirements set forth by the COC found here https://www.debateart.com/rules

(1) In order to award arguments points, the voter must:

Survey the main arguments and counterarguments presented in the debate
Weigh those arguments against each other (or explain why certain arguments need not be weighed based on what transpired within the debate itself)
Explain how, through the process of weighing, they arrived at their voting decision with regard to assigning argument points

(2) In order to award a source point, the voter must:

Explain, on balance, how each debater's sources impact the debate
Directly evaluate at least one source in particular cited in the debate and explain how it either bolstered or weakened the argument it was used to support
Must explain how and why one debater's use of sources overall was superior to the other's

(3) In order to award conduct, the voter must:

Provide specific references to instances of poor conduct which occurred in the debate
Demonstrate how this poor conduct was either excessive, unfair, or in violation of mutually agreed upon rules of conduct pertaining to the text of the debate
Compare each debater's conduct from the debate

The voter fails to do this thus his vote is removed.

TEST

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@Lernaean

Thanks for making me google "brain in vat" which made me google "lernaean" Do you identify with hydras?

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@RationalMadman

Sure, once this ones done.

Oh looks like it’s gonna be a nice K from con. Popcorn out!

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@Ramshutu

Make the topic that flat Earth isn't plausible and use the sun moon arguments etc. I'd like to explain why flat earth is plausible.

Photos where all but one are admitted to be photoshopped. Hilarious.

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@Ramshutu

We shall see.

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@Lernaean

I highly doubt it that would be wildly effective, that was actually a terrible argument, made successful only by his opponents even worse argument.

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@Ramshutu

I believe sometime recently RM won a debate with the "How do we know anything exists" argument. By accepting the entirety of the BoP, I imagine that argument would be *wildly* effective. I would add some sort of clarification that philosophical arguments of the "Brain in a Vat" variety are not to be accepted.

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@Alec

I don’t think RM is brave enough, otherwise I would have directly challenged him. I’m just seeing if there is any Flat Earthers out there, as I find going through and communicating the science interesting and challenging.

I think whoever accepts your debate would be meet one of the 3 objectives:

1: He/she is Flatearth.
2: He is RM.
3: He/she will forfeit the debate, giving you an easy win.

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@Alec

Plus, I’m pretty smart - and the counter position is “out there”. Taking the burden of proof helps level the playing field a bit.

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@Alec

I enjoy taking the burden of proof in scientific debates of this kind, as it challenges by scientific knowledge and ability. You would be surprised at how many people are not able to prove basic scientific information.

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@Ramshutu

It's rare to put the BoP solely on yourself.