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1500
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Topic
#6190
Allah vs Yahweh
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The participant that receives the most points from the voters is declared a winner.
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- Standard
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Contender / Con
1
1522
rating
10
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60.0%
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Description
Yahweh isn’t real but a made up impossibility and there is no God but Allah and Muhammad saw is the last and final messenger and prophet amen
Round 1
Pro
#1
There is only one God and there can only be one God and that is Allah swat
Yahweh is an impossibility
First of all we don’t even know how to pronounce his name yhwh has no vowels
He is only mentioned in the Old Testament and is described as a cold hearted merciless tyrant who commits genocide and orders genocide and even tell people to exterminate women children babies and animals!
Jesus never mentions Yahweh
Con believes Jesus is conjoined with Yahweh as part of the trinity
The trinity makes no sense and was fabricated in the fourth century
The Bible never mentions trinity
Jesus never claimed to be Yahweh or to be conjoined with Yahweh so why do you believe this
Con believes Yahweh is 3 and 1 at the same time
Con also believes 3=1 which is mathematically impossible and has no proof in any scripture but was something ordinary men made up in the fourth century
Tell me Con if Yahweh can be 3=1 why can’t he be 4=1?
If Yahweh can become a man why can’t he become a woman or animal or statue?
The Hindu God or gods are more consistent than Yahweh
The Bible also say Yahweh is a jealous god?
Who is Yahweh jealous of??? If Yahweh is real and the only true god and other gods don’t exist what is Yahweh’s problem?
It is like me being jealous of Santa Claus when Santa Claus doesn’t even exist
Allah is real and is more align with El Eli or Elohim in the Bible
Jesus called god Eli not Yahweh
The Bible has changed we don’t have the original we don’t have the original language,
People decided themselves what goes in and what goes out of bible
The authors of bible never claimed to be inspired by God.
Allah is real
The Islamic narrative is the Quran was revealed to Muhammad saw by angel gabriel
There is no challenge to the Islamic narrative
Muhammad saw couldn’t read or write so who is the author of the Quran?
The Quran contains scientific miracles and knowledge ahead of its time thousands of years ahead of its time
It mentions the embryo looks like a leech
We recently only proved this with microscope
The Quran mentions the Big Bang and the expansion of the universe which is in line with modern cosmology
While the Bible says the earth is flat the sky is dome of glass there’s water above the sky the universe was created in six days Yahweh got tired on the 7th
Look your Yahweh is so weak he got tired in 6 days
He is also mortal of you believe he is Jesus and if Yahweh died why do you worship a dead god?
Your Bible says light existed without light source ie sun
And plants came before the sun while plants can’t exist without photosynthesis
You also believe Yahweh is conjoined with a Holy Ghost
This ghost is so big and scary it assumes the form of a pigeon a common animal cats eat
So in turn Yahweh isn’t real and it is impossible for Yahweh to exist
Allah is real there is only one God and it’s Allah
Worship Allah alone with no partners
And follow the sunnah of the last prophet Muhammad saw the chosen one saw
InshAllah Ameen
Thanks
Con
#2
Legal disclaimer
This is me arguing against and disapproving of the teachings and the deity of Islam and Sharia. This is not me inciting hatred to the individuals that have fallen victim to this doctrine of abusive honor killings, apostate executions, lashings and more trapped in cycle of said abuse.🙏 I hope to save souls, including Pro's.
====
Allah is a robbed God-concept from Judaism that then had Christianity interwoven and somehow denies both.
Muhammad founded his entire religion on a most insane notion; that Abraham, Moses, Elijah and even Jesus were secretly Muslims lying to everyone.
He then told that they were not liars, just very confused. Then he decided Mary was a virgin at the birth of Christ but nothing else about her or Jesus was special and she apparently had sex later.
The Qur'an and Hadiths revolve around mimicking Tanakh's ruthless stoning and execution mantra, amplifying it even, while simultaneously having Christian concepts such as Shaitan being the Satanic and Iblis being representative of both Lucifer and Satan. They have Jinn which are like hybrids of old testament angels and new testament demons.
They not only stole the entire concept of Y*w*h from the Tanakh, they even stole values. These include not eating pork, circumcision of males, men having innate authority over women (this gets amplified).
====
Jesus, Trinity and putting it to Rest.
It is difficult to explain Trinity to many, even some Christians get it wrong. It is not 3 modes of God that he switches between since all 3 are active at all times as 3 persons.
The best way to imagine it is as follows:
One brain (God other than Jesus isn't using physical brain just try and imagine it). Around this brain is 1 head. This head has 3 faces in triangular formation. One face is Jesus, another is a white Dove's face, that is Holy Spirit and Father actually is not a man with beard etc it just helps us in our human brains to picture it to understand.
This say of imagining it helos because it is 1 mind, thus not a 3 headed entity. 1 mind, 3 Persons, all active at all times.
What I know is Father on his own lacks a body. He is away from us, we are not panentheistic. He necessitatively begot Jesus een before the human was born as far back as concerns us, Old Testament had Angel of the Lord that claimed to be God/Lord multiple times, it is likely Jesus was the OT's unnamed AotL. Not an AotL but the one.
I will give verses.
To Hagar
The first recorded appearance of the angel of the LORD was to Hagar, Abraham's mistress, and the mother of his son Ishmael.The angel of the LORD also said to her, "I will so greatly multiply your offspring that they cannot be counted for multitude" (Genesis 16:10).This angel said He Himself would multiply the descendants of Hagar.After the appearance of the angel of the LORD Hagar said.She gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: "You are the God who sees me," for she said, "I have now seen the One who sees me" (Genesis 16:13).She believed that she had spoken directly to God.To Abraham And Sarah At Mamre
Three men appeared to Abraham and his wife Sarah at the plains of Mamre. They had come to inform Abraham and Sarah concerning two matters. The son that God had promised them would be born to Abraham and Sarah the next year, and the evil cities of Sodom and Gomorrah would be destroyed. One of the three visitors who gave them this information is specifically called the LORD.The LORD appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the entrance of his tent in the heat of the day (Genesis 18:1).To Abraham On Mount Moriah
God told Abraham to bring his son Isaac to Mount Moriah to be sacrificed. Abraham obeyed and was about to take Isaac's life when God intervened. The angel of the LORD stopped Abraham saying:He said, "Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me" (Genesis 22:12).He called a second time to Abraham:The angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven (Genesis 22:15).In this instance the angel of the LORD, who called out to Abraham, seems to be the LORD Himself.To JacobThis angel appeared a number of times to Jacob.Then the angel of God said to me in the dream, 'Jacob,' and I said, 'Here I am' (Genesis 31:11).
Jacob wrestled all night with a man who finally disabled him. The next morning Jacob understood that it was God Himself whom he had wrestled:And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved (Genesis 32:30).At the end of his life, Jacob spoke of God, and the angel of the LORD, as identical.the Angel who has delivered me from all harm - may He bless these boys. May they be called by my name and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac, and may they increase greatly upon the earth (Genesis 48:16).Moses And The Burning BushThe angel of the LORD appeared to Moses in the burning bush.There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up (Exodus 3: 2).The angel explained who He was.He said further, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God (Exodus 3:6).
What Islam does to handle this is it says that AotL and Holy Spirit are the same entity, Angel Gabriel. In Arabic they force the name of any mo otbeistic God to be Allah because to them semantically God is Allah.
Angel Gabriel in Arabic has the smae name as Holy Spirit, basically. This was cunning by Muhammad and his sub-Imams who intentionally made it so in Arabic as it was evolving still linguistically in this regard.
Thus they deny Trinity despite holding Tanakh of Old Testmament as true scripture by making both Holy Spirit and AotL seems to be the same entity which neither are, namely Angel Gabriel.
They completely ignore that AotL explicitly claimed to be God/Lord
Islam claims that we cannot know Allah at all as he is too complex to comprehend yet they insist they kmow he is not triune and deosn't work that way.
So, what did Jesus say?
For one example, He said that whilst we are not under law to tithe, we should still do it (Luke 23.23). In the same style, He did claim to be God.In John 10.30, Jesus said, “The Father and I are one.”Those present knew very well what was being said. They knew Jesus was claiming to be God by asserting His equality with God. Look at their reaction:“The Jewish leaders picked up rocks again to stone him to death. Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good deeds from the Father. For which one of them are you going to stone me?” The Jewish leaders replied, “We are not going to stone you for a good deed but for blasphemy, because you, a man, are claiming to be God.” (John 10.31-33, NET, emphasis added)Those present, those who heard Him, knew exactly what was being communicated, and their reactions show us that without a shadow of a doubt.Jesus made another statement claiming to be God in John 8.58:“Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!” (NET)The reaction is the same (John 8.59) because the claim is the same: Deity.Did Jesus claim to be God? Yes, in many ways (Matthew 14.33, cf. Luke 4.8) and with many words. Perhaps not the words we might use ourselves, but He certainly did.
What Islam forces its adherents to do is deny all this and pick and choose which parts of Bible suit their agenda.
====
Hatred and violence of Qur'an
Pro wants you to believe the God that empowered Moses and was directly leading Abraham ends up teaching the following:
O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
^ these verses encourage and vindicate Muslims to slay any either Infidel (those against Islam even by sinning) or enemies within it. It clarifies, in context that you should relent abusinng/maiming only if they surrender to Allah.
Now for sex slaves:
Prophet Muhammad's Approval of Sexual Relations with Captives In a hadith narrated by Abu Surma (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Hadith 135), he relates a conversation about 'azl (coitus interruptus). He says, "Did you hear Allah's Messenger mentioning al-'azl?" The companions confirm they had, and then Abu Surma recounts: "We went out with Allah's Messenger on the expedition to Banu al-Mustaliq and took some Arab women as captives, and desired women and loved to do coitus interruptus ('azl), so we intended to do it. We asked Allah's Messenger, and he said, 'It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born until the Day of Resurrection will be born!" This hadith shows that during the expedition, the companions took female captives and had sexual relations with them. They sought guidance from Prophet Muhammad regarding the practice of 'azl, and he gave his approval, without addressing any concerns about the captives' consent. The lack of prohibition suggests that these captives were viewed as lawful to engage with sexually, even without their consent.
Quranic Basis for Sexual Relations with Female Captives: The Quran also supports this view. In Surah An-Nisa (4:24), it says: "And [forbidden to you are] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are all others beyond these, provided that you seek them [in marriage] with your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse."
Note that in whole Qur'an the only woman mentioned is Mary and frankly disrespects her after pretending to respect her.
In Hadiths we have Muhmad being a pedophile to Aisha and women are seen solely as objects. More modern, more misogynistic.
Round 2
Pro
#3
Ok so the topic of the debate is Allah or Yahweh. In order for con to prove his point he must first prove Yahweh exists according to his doctrines and Allah doesn’t exist and Islam is a hoax. So far con has not done that.
Con argues tha Islam plagerized the Bible and Jewish writings and threw many strawmans. First of all prophet Muhammad saw couldn’t read or write. This is a known fact accepted by all scholars. He couldn’t read Arabic let alone Greek or Hebrew so how could he copy the Bible? The fact there are parallels between Islam and jeudochristianity proves my point. The same God authored the Quran and Bible. God sent messengers all over the world to every nation including the Hebrew nation but not just them. These prophets were for a temporary time and place. The last and final and complete prophet saw is for all times and places. The Bible has been changed since it wasn’t intended by God to be for all people and nations. The Quran is for all people and nations that’s why it’s still in it’s original form perfectly unlike the Bible.
Con misrepresented his trinity doctrine. One head with three faces is modalism or partialism both heresies in the church and a misrepresentation of the trinity. If God wears one face at a time it’s modalism. If he has all three faces conjoined it’s partialism because it’s three parts combined. The trinity makes no sense. Con quotes a lot of Bible verse but none of them are Jesus saying he is God or Yahweh or part of the trinity. Even Jesus never mentions Yahweh. So there’s no proof of his conjoined three faced Yahweh existing in the bible in the first place.
Con also says the Quran is lying by calling prophets such as Moses and Jesus Muslims. The very word Muslim means one who submits to God. So by definition they are all Muslims because they couldn’t be prophets in the first place if they don’t submit to God
Con also accuses Islam for being violent. Did he forget how violent his Yahweh is? He ordered genocides left and right and ordered to kill women children babies and animals! The Quran only permits wars in self defense and orders us to never harm women or children or animals or plants! And all Muslim wars were fought as such in self defense and they only fought armed male soldiers and not civilians or women or children. Isla is peaceful but Yahweh is a violent tyrant that hitler cannot even compare too. Con even believes Yahweh will torture hitler Ghandi and everyone regardless of they are good or evil in hell forever if they simply don’t blindly believe his contradictory existence? I think con needs to seriously sit down and think and pray for guidance Ameen.
He talks about Prophet Muhammad saw marriage with Aisha which is irrelevant to the topic but in short child marriages were a norm back then. Women didn’t work or go to school back then so when they were done playing with dolls it’s time to get married.
The Bible never once says what age we should marry and children married young in biblical times anyways so the Bible doesn’t condemn it nor can any secular argument condemn it since it has no basis in morality. And as I said it’s irrelevant to the topic because times have changed since now women work and go to school.
So in short con proved nothing but just threw red harings and straw man’s. Allah exists and Yahweh doesn’t alhumdolillah Ameen
Con
#4
Stolen/plagiarised ideas from Judaism and Christianity in Islam
Pro decides to 'flex' to us that the holy prophet of Islam was apparently entirely illiterate.
He definitely could not write well, reading may not have been a 0 for him. Muhammad did however know about Judaism and Christianity. He knew by ear and spoken gospel.
This is proven in a multitude of ways. First of all in Islam, it says Muhammad declared Abraham (Ibrahim), Moses (Musa), Jesus (Isa), and Mary (Maryam) as valid prophets. However, after some confusion that the misogynist would call Mary a prophet, it became widely agreed that Mariam was messenger (Rasul) and not prophet (Nabi).
Sub-point about Quranic misogyny
Mary is the only woman in the entire Qur'an that is named.
In the entire Qur'an women are never directly talked to. All teachings specific to women are talked about as third person and yet male teachings are far more often talked to in second person (you) or first as in Muhammad tells about himself as a man and what men should do with 'we', 'us' and 'our' wording.
Here some concrete examples:
- There's a whole chapter "النساء"(the women) but no "men" chapter. And in the women chapter, rulings about women are given in the POV of men.
- in alnisaa(women) chapter verse 128 vs. verse 34. Here it's interesting because it's almost the same message, one for men and one for women. but in 34 (for men) it says : والاتي تخافون نشوزهن. so the quran directly talks to men. but in 128 (for women) it says: و ان امرأة خافت من بعلها نشوزا. so it talks about the women in third person.
- Verse 12 in alnisaa about the heritage. The case when the husband/wife dies. The case where the wife dies the quran uses: you (و لكم نصف ما ترك ازواجكم), the husband case however it switches to third person (و لهن الربع).
- All kinds of male specific rulings. like polygamie or the right to sleep with your slave. The quran doesnt neutrally state that it's allowed. Rather the quran directly speaks in you form although women also read the quran and it doesnt apply to them. Note that the other way never happens. Women specific rulings like hijab are explictly stated for example in the form of, "oh prophet tell to the women" (Al-Ahzaab 59 or Al-Nur 31). As a man whenever the quran says "you", then it's valid. Women need extra interpretation and fiqh layer to derive which rules are only for men.
- baqarah 187: هن لباس لكم و انتم لباس لهن Here in one verse the quran explains what men are to women and what women are to men (not sure how to translate libas). But again uses the male POV instead of a neutral which would be: هن لباس لهم و هم لباس لهن. So it says: you(men) are libas to them(women) , and they are libas to you
- In paradise the quran shows us the male POV (most stuff is gender neutral anyways like food) . hooris (حور العين ) are mentioned often and are not just mates, but specific that they are females for the muslim men. There are no women specific rewards.
- I know of no instance where the quran directly speaks to women exclusively. Only exceptions are the wifes of the prophet (Al-Ahzaab 32) or ofcourse when the quran speaks to all muslims (the women would be automatically involved)
So back to the main point, did Islam base itself on stolen/plagiarised ideas? Yes.
In contrast to Christianity that claims Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and upholds Tanakh scripture as part of its old testament holy text, Islam picks and chooses what parts of Judaism and Christianity suit it, to discredit both.
They claim, as I have already said, that Moses, Abraham, Jesus and many others significant in Judaism and Christianity were secretly Muslims that were either liars or too stupid (sorry to God for saying this) to know better.
The religion of Islam would have you believe that the holy prophets before Muhammad all were either liars or confused and/or stupid. They fake respecting Jesus saying peace be upon him yet they discredit everything he taught and say they know better.
The most severe example is indeed what Pro is fixated on, did Jesus claim to be God? Yes, several times. I already gave examples. How can the same man saying he and the father are one or he has seen all the father has seen and as old as the father (concept being he was begotten by Father outside of time itself) be not claiming to be God?
Why would Islam be claiming to not eat pork, circumcise, have a sabbath day which for them is Friday, reject lgbtq so on and so forth if the religion is not based on Judaism and also Christianity? It even has a tale of Iblis/Shaitan and Jinns which is akin to Satan and fallen angels except Jinn are also angelic at times. Yes, you need to realise in Islam the demons and Iblis itself are all doing Allah's will. That is because in Islam they think God is not good. They think he is also evil and we are to be fearful slaves to a tyrannical yet merciful master rather than willing servants acting slavelike to a loving, caring king or lord. The phrase 'slave of Allah' brings a Muslims joy and peace, this is also why Islamic.culture is consistently tyrannical and anti democratic. I am not judging it I am observing it. If Allah is the real God, it would make sense to be that way as Allah is a tyrant and wants worldwide slavery. This of course is one of the biggest issues with the faith inside of democracies as it is incompatible but that is another debate for another time.
Did Jesus claim to be God in difering words and contextually make it blatant? Yes many times.
Examples of Jesus' claims to be God:
Google AI citing Bible.
Pro seems to deny that is blatantly Jesus claiming to be God.
Trinity and Heresies
The modalism heresy is to say God is 1 of them at a time.
Modalists believe God is one entity who changes modes as He sees fit. Hence, He was God the Father in the Old Testament, shifted into God the Son (Jesus Christ) in the New Testament, and now operates as the Holy Spirit. It logically follows that no divine mode can be eternal or distinct.
I did not commit modalism heresy. I also said it is an anlogy not the reality. Trinity is not 3 faces around 1 brain because God does not need a brain, Jesus happens to have one as he has maintained his resurrected body that we dont know how different a glorified body is to his unenhanced human one to know if he uses brain or not, he doesn't need it once ascended. The reason he doesn't need it necessarily is because he thinks with God's single mind. As a human he allowed the Father Person to restrict him somewhat so he had divine knowledge at times but not pure omniscience. Hensce how he could be surprised or change his mind at times. Jesus was God experiencing genuine human life. It helped God realise what life is like as a human rather than just know all the details and data, he got an actual first-hand experience. That is also why he forgave us for our sins as he died on the Cross. It was because he experienced first-hand the human struggle rather than knowing about it, actually experiencing it led to us being forgiven.
Jesus, God and HS as 3 faces around 1 brain is a good way to imagine trinity for a nonbeliever such as Pro, to grasp it fast.
It cannot be modalism heresy as all 3 are active at all times.
Partialism Heresy is actually what even some Catholics do when describing trinity, not just Protestants. They say Father is creator and enforcer, Jesus is Word and Holy Spirit is the love/heart. This is true but by only describing it that way it sounds as if each is 1/3 of God rather than 100% God. 3 faces around 1 brain is a metaphor. Firstly Father has no face. I do not know why Catholics or others draw a man with white beard etc. maybe it helps us picture him but that is clearly not him. In fact Father is not physically male how Jesus is. He is masculine by his aura and chosen personality. Hily Spirit thus is a masculine male dove in his person.
All 3 have 1 mind, 1 will and are 3 persons active at all times.
I do not need to explain how it works to win this debate. I only need to disprove that it is impissible or untenable.
Regarding child marriage and violence
Aisha was 6. She was grommed by Muhammad from even earlier than that tog et her parents to let her go. He married her at 6 ir at least lived with her as if she was a wife. Did the 'deed' at 8 towards 9 (it was 9th lunar birthday which is still 8 solar).
The fact Muhammad made child marriage normalised is a huge issue.
Christians were minimum 12 when getting married. 6 was not normal.
Why does Islam tell us to be violent to others? Why does it declare all Jews and Christians as enemies and say any Muslim.befriending them is an enemy too.
Round 3
Pro
#5
Once again the debate topic was Allah vs Yahweh. Con has once again failed to prove his three faced tyrant named yahweh and disprove the God of Islam or that Islam is a hoax. Con instead posts irrelevant red harrings left and right that have nothing to do with the debate.
The Quran in multiple places says the prophet saw was illiterate which con agrees. Con makes the claim prophet Muhammad saw orally heard the Bible and Judaism and Christianity
Con has no proof of this he is making that up.
The majority of the people in Arabia were pagans why would they tell him about the Bible?
There is no proof anywhere form where I heard that prophet saw would listen to stories from Christians? There is no proof of this.
Furthermore why the Quran correct all the Bible’s mistakes? For example the king of Egypt wasn’t called pharaoh during the time of Joseph . This was a mistake the Bible made but the Quran got right? How would someone living 1400 years ago who never went to school never learned how to read and write know this? How can he plagiarize correct events and not incorrect ones? Explain con?
And con again accuses Islam for lying by saying the previous prophets were Muslims?
Con did you read my arguments? Or do you have some script you are plagiarizing?
What does Muslim mean?
What is the literal definition of Muslim?
It is one who submits to God
Did the prophets submit to god?
Yes or no?
Yes!
Con please read my arguments and think before you publish irrelevant material
Again Jesus never used the exact words “I am God!”
Con quotes stuff like I and the father are one
Jesus later prays his disciples be one also.
Should the disciples be part of the trinity?
No it means one in purpose
Jesus spoke in parables and metaphors
I and the father are one means one in purpose
Jesus being the son of god is metaphorical for being a godly person.
No one on the face of the planet believes Jesus is biologically begotten by god as physical organisms are.
Con says Yahweh has one brain and three faces
First of all where did con get this heresy? It’s not mentioned in the Bible or early church fathers or even in the council of Nicaea or any Christian council doctrine or creed.
Con made this up.
It is basically partialism
And if God has one brain or mind then he is one not three
God is invisible so how does con know God looks like this? And how can he if he’s immaterial and has no nose eyes ears moth face head and isn’t made of atoms?
Con I pray you come to Islam because you are confused.
Also the Bible has changed and isn’t in its original form like the Quran is so we can’t trust it since we don’t know how much of it has been tampered with.
For example if I’m a scientist doing an experiment and my sample has been tampered with then my results will be unreliable.
So the Bible is unreliable to begin with. Jesus doesn’t specifically say he’s God which suggests this probably wasn’t his claim. And all the verse that suggests something similar to being God could for all we know be fabricated since we don’t know how much of the Bible ordinary scribes actually altered?
And the stuff con says about Mary and women in Islam is totally irrelevant to the debate?
Morality is derived from God which both con and I agree so if God says something is good how can con claim different.
Atheists have no basis in morality so I don’t know why con is quoting atheism? Con has no basis in his arguments against Islam
I already proved Yahweh is way more violent than Islam and con hasn’t addressed that point at all
The rest of con’s point are irrelevant to the debate?
And the marriage of Aisha ra is also irrelevant to the debate and doesn’t have prove anything in con’s favor.
If Aisha herself and her father and God himself never had a problem with what is con’s business in butting into someone’s personal life 1000 years ago
Comparing today’s culture with 1400 years ago is a historical fallacy and con is just repeating debunked arguments of islamaphobes and plagerizing them and con himself doesn’t know what he is talking about.
Audience please don’t let con’s long paragraphs deceive you. He has posted no good relevant argument in them and doesn’t know what he is talking about. And his position stance and arguments make no sense.
This is a common sense question souls we worship one God who created the universe and that creator alone or should we worship con’s three faced tyrant monster? This is common sense and the difference between heaven and hell
The purpose of this debate is not to prove who is smarter? Me or con? It is to show what is the truth and to save souls from hellfire
Please vote for the truth and more importantly believe the truth because you’re going to your own grave and the fate of your soul is between you and the true god ameen
Con
#6
If Islam holds Moses, Abraham and Jesus as holy prophets, it follows that we can observe the reality; it stole ideas from both.
It does not list tabakh as holy scripture, nor Bible.
The reality is that the entire concpt of Allah obviously has some true elements because Islam stole ideas from Old Testament aa well as some from New.
Islam is misogynistic, encourages hatred to jews and christians, violence to all non believers and apostates leaving Islam and generally is rooted in fear and abuse. Look are Sharia nations if you don't believe .e.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
In short:
Pro built a sandcastle next to the rising tide of historical fact. Con didn't even have to knock it over, just point to the tide.
At length:
I'm going to take the unconventional route and explain this with a Star Wars analogy (or parable if you will...)
Pro argues Kylo Ren (the guy from the 2015 movie) is the greatest Sith Lord of all time, way better than Darth anything, and bases his case around the idea that Episodes 1-6 were never filmed. So there were no previous Sith Lords at all. In fact, Vader was made up in 1999! Then Con shows up in the Millennium Falcon as if it's 1977, pointing out that Kylo is Vader's emo grandkid, and via the birds and the bees that grandkids came after their grandparents, clearing the field to help Luke Skywalker make the one-in-a-million shot (side note: https://wiki.lspace.org/Million-to-one_chance)
Pro, grasping at straws, goes the strange route of claiming that Con must prove Kylo Ren didn't appear in Episode 7, and further that Mickey Mouse is illiterate so couldn't have possibly copied anything from earlier films. Con wisely points out that you don't need to have watched Star Wars to have been exposed to the oral tradition of it, and names multiple characters carried over directly from the previous films.
Now swap "Star Wars" for Abrahamic religions, and that's basically this debate...
Pro's non-sequitur case rests on the implication that the other Abrahamic religions were poor copies of Islam, "fabricated in the fourth century." Which is a rare example of a Retro Hoc fallacy, to which Con reminds us of this poor reasoning with "Allah is a robbed God-concept from Judaism that then had Christianity interwoven and somehow denies both." And of course, numerous sources to support his Burden of Proof (comparatively, Pro offered zero). Pro's defense of this is that Muhammad "couldn’t read or write," so could not have possibly heard of anything at all, but Con is fast to point out "He knew by ear and spoken gospel." Which is a much higher opinion of Muhammad than Pro's arguments imply.
Pro of course makes some other weak assertions, such as an ad nauseum "Allah is real" as if expecting that chant to give him the victory, but he fails to find so much as the weak evidence of anyone in the Qur'an believing that (and yes, while that common tactic is ripe for criticism for being a highly fallacious appeal, it's still far superior to no appeal at all).
To me the entire debate hinges on the timeline. Pro's case is implicitly older equals better, and then picks the newest of the batch. Had he instead argued something like Islam preserved or restored earlier ideas, that might have led somewhere. But he bet the entire moisture farm on Islam coming first (or put plainly, that the 7th century occurred before the 4th, as well as before anything BCE), so once Con pointed out that wasn't the case the debate may as well have been over.
Clear win for Con.
Starwars had nothing to do with this debate, you are a liar and cheater Barney!
Con didn’t prove any plagerism I debunked his whole argument!
Aye man your a cheater? How dare you report tiger lord just because he voted for me fair and square? Why do you report a vote just because you disagree with the position as a bias! You are a cheater shame on you
Thanks brother Tigerlord, and this brother tiger lord gave a fair vote, yet these Christians are crying they lost? Con didn’t prove anything against Islam but was appealing to emotion and crying the whole debate that he for whatever personal reasons doesn’t like Islam.
He never addressed why Yahweh wants innocent women children babies and animals dead. Evey time I ask con disappears
For the first time a fair vote has been done on this site and you want to cry and report it.
I think that is cowardly of you islamaphobe missionaries that you can’t accept defeat even though you lose all the time?
I still pray Allah swat guides you to Islam only He can open your eyes and hearts inshallah ameen
Ty for voting but it may get reported.
Ty for modding too.
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>Reported Vote: tigerlord // Mod action: Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 1 to pro
>Reason for Decision: Everything con said is irrelevant to the resolution and whatever he said against islam is not backed by evidence so no credibility at all.
Instead pro remain asking him to present the argument about resolution which con failed. Even pro remain sentimental just like con to not substantiate facts but he was on topic and tried to make some arguments but con on the other hand failed completely. That is why vote goes to pro. As it's one point criteria so the decision is more easy. If it would have been multiple criteria then the decision would have been very difficult. Both sides did it poorly.
>Reason for Mod Action:
The voter acted in such a way to suggest they did not give fair weighting to the debate content.
This vote essentially treated the debate as a foregone conclusion (which would be fine had one side simply not attempted to argue anything; but at a glance that is not the case); about the only redeeming trait on it is acknowledging weakness from the favored side (even while still coddling them via voting for them just for being on the preferred side of the issue, without being able to explain anything good about their argument).
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When I said about evidence, I mentioned against islam. All were emotional claims.
You lied saying I gave no proofs, I did. Several.
Really ? Vote is just fine bro.
Tigerlords vote is reported.
What is your definition of slave?
And you never answered why Yahweh ordered the genocide of women children babies and animals.
Tell me if he is not a tyrant, why would he command this hitlerism?
You could have used that argument in the debate but you didn’t
You literally call yourself a slave of Allah and then call Yhwh a tyrant. Do you not see an irony there?
Again none of these were the debate topic.
Islamic history wasn’t the debate topic
The ruling on art wasn’t the topic either.
Our debate was Allah vs Yahweh
You didn’t prove your three faced Yahweh and didn’t debunk the existence of Allah.
And your whole argument that Islam was copied from the Bible was destroyed by me several times by my argument that Allah authored the Bible and Quran
You never addressed my point but repeated your already debunked point.
You keep saying Islam is violent but never addressed the point how violent you Yahweh monster tyrant is.
You did not address the arguments on topic for this debate and went totally off topic.
I know cheating happens a lot on this site and I won’t let you cheat this debate because you lost by all standards and the voting should be fair.
I didn't lie. I know Islamic history.
I didnt even mention the fact you guys ban depicting all faces and animals. You basically make appreciating the beauty of all God made into a sin. We see Jesus regularly in our depictions amd worship him. You watch non Muslim made movies. How can you watch animated movies, those depict living beings... your profile pic is a sin to even exist in Islam thats why all pictures of Muhammad are banned. That iss why they cover women faces up not just hair. Hair is fine, face is beyond it.
You didn’t address any of my points bro you didn’t debate me and you offended me by lying about my religion by claiming it’s evil and violent
Again dear voter, my opponent did not address any of my arguments.
He keeps insisting Islam was plagiarized and stole from bible
Prophet saw couldn’t read or write in Arabic let alone Greek and Hebrew how can he copy something he couldn’t read?
And there is no evidence he orally learned it from Christians and Jews. Which Christian and which Jew taught him the Bible orally and how did he copy only the correct statements and not the errors? And most of the people in Arabia were pagans so why would they tell him bible?
Prophet saw had no teacher no education and was an orphan so he had no one to teach him other than God.
Con never addressed any of these points
I argued that the author of both Bible and Quran was God himself. That explains the similarities. Con never addressed this point. It seems con didn’t read my arguments but instead is copying an islamaphobe script.
If the God the author of both books, it answers con’s allegation. Why doesn’t con even address this point let alone debunk it.
Con also never proves his three faced Yahweh who makes. No sense isn’t mentioned in Bible by Jesus or anyone and isn’t even mentioned in the doctrines and creeds of trinity and is heretical partialism.
Con keeps insisting Islam is violent but never addressed the point how violent Yahweh is.
Con didn’t address any of my points. Please don’t vote for him just because you are Christian and you agree with his views as a bias.
He performed poorly in the debate and half fast debated me and didn’t address a single point I made. I addressed all his points and debunked them. He just kept repeating the same points over and over again in every round even though they were debunked in the first round.
He also made points that were totally irrelevant to the debate.
He didn’t prove his Yahweh and dindn’t debunk my God Allah.
And my God exists by default. He is the creator of the universe and he authored both bible and Quran while con believes in a three faced tyrant.
Con didn’t address my points and didn’t debate me but just copied and pasted from some islaphobic script all three rounds without even reading my points.
He says in his disclaimer he doesn’t intend to offend Muslims
He offended me! He keeps accusing Islam for being violent without proof and without consistency and doesn’t ever address the fact I debunked his racist plane.
Please don’t be fooled by him or vote for him he is a liar and he lost fair and square.
Don’t rig or vote unfairly or biased.
Admit I won and he lost InshAllah that is fair Ameen
And Paul does seem to contradict the entire rest of the Bible
And the Bible says don’t have any other gods before me
And not to worship any image or any creature
And it also says God isn’t a man or son of man
So I don’t know how you can associate Jesus with God especially when he even never claimed such a thing?
I think as Christianity spread to the gentiles such ideas were promoted to convince them since they were already pagans
Jews to this day don’t have a trinity and have a theology closer to Islam
Since Jews are still waiting for a messiah and a new prophet I would prefer Islam since it’s a complete worldview
One question I am wondering about is, that Paul and the disciples seem to agree on the gospels and various topics
They initially disagreed on whether gentiles needed to follow the law and be circumcised but they talked it out and agreed the Bible says,
And Paul says he met Peter and James , these are Jesus top disciples and James is his brother who initially didn’t believe till he met his resurrected brother they say.
This is a good point if Paul was a false prophet as some argue why did the disciples and Jesus earliest followers accept him?
My theory is that maybe the disciples and early Christians could get gentile support for their new movement through Paul?
And Jesus disciples were a little gullible cowardly and not well trained.
Judas betrayed Jesus
And Peter denied knowing Jesus 3 times and they all ran away when the crucifixion supposedly happened?
So I don’t think they are that trustworthy and could have been easily fooled? I don’t know?
What do you think about this?
Now one thing I am thinking is the Quran seems to deny the crucifixion in one verse, but the verse isn’t clear. The Quran doesn’t make a historical claim or provide any details or any narrative on the crucifixion scene, and the verse isn’t clear very vague and unclear.
But Muslims and Christians can agree on the ascension and second coming of Jesus as well as his virgin birth and mighty miracles
Also if we are the sinners why should Jesus be punished?
If I am hungry should Jesus eat my food? Would that make me less hungry?
If person a commits a crime should person b be punished?
This makes no sense and is unjust
All sins are between us and God can forgive any sin as long as we sincerely repent
If however someone else is involved such as I rob someone, I have to give their money back and apologize to them too in order to sincerely repent of such a sin
Likewise if someone commits murder he should receive capital punishment unless he apologizes to the victims family and they think he is sincere and actually forgive him the according to Muslim law he can give them blood money if they except it
Yes we believe that too we believe Jesus peace be upon him is alive in the heavens and will return to earth in his second coming
We Muslims we believe in Jesus
We just don’t believe he is the son of God literally because a. That doesn’t make sense. B. No one believes he biologically begotten by God as animals and humans are by reproduction, not even Christians believe this
We can believe he was metaphorically the son of God as in a godly person
The doctrine of trinity teaches The father is God the son is God and the Holy Ghost is God but they are three distinct persons so the father isn’t the son or vice versa
And according to the nicean creed the son is begotten not made and is the same substance as the father
All this makes no sense and Jesus never claimed any of this either Jesus never even said he is god
The Bible has been changed also
The originals are lost and all the copies were hand copies since there was no printing press then and a lot of errors and mistakes and deliberate changes were made by scribes
Also Jesus spoke Aramaic but the earliest gospels are found in Greek
So the verse that hint Jesus was god could be fabricated since we don’t know exactly how much the Bible was tampered with
Also we don’t Believe he died for our sins because it’s unjust to punish an innocent person instead of a guilty person
Jesus as Messiah means it is complete. He will come again 2nd coming.
Also the Jewish and Christian religion never claim to be complete
But Islam claims to be a complete religion with a final prophet saw
Thanks to the finality of prophethood we know no new prophet will nor any new religion or law
With judaism that’s not the case
A prophet can come anytime and abrogate the entire Jewish law so why follow a religion that can be abrogated anytime?
Also there is no clear evidence of an afterlife in Jewish scriptures
But in Islam there is
So why follow a religion if it gives no reward?
Also the Quran is right Abraham wasn’t a Jew or Christian
Islam means submission to God
And Abraham did that
So submit to God and be Muslim inshallah ameen
No Judaism worships the same tyrant god who wants us to kill women children babies and animals and also the same god who fell asleep after he created the world
And also the Jewish scriptures say a prophet like Moses will come as well as a messiah,
We accept Jesus as messiah and Muhammad saw as the prophet like Moses and the last prophet saw
By your logic I should be a Jew not a Muslim.
If your wife cheats on you you get mad
So how dare you anger God by worshipping Jesus alongside him?
There is only one creator
Worshipping the creation is like cheating on God
God cannot forgive this betrayal
So please repent and accept Islam and recite the kalima brothers inshallah
And if I don’t believe in him and doubt his existence for the same reason I doubt Santa Claus, will he still love me when he sends me to hell forever?
Yahweh isn’t real bro 3=1 is impossible
Your Yahweh which is actually satan in disguise uses fear tactics and emotional blackmail to deceive people
If I say 3=1 is impossible as it is why should I burn in hell forever?
And if I committed the sin why is your Yahweh punishing Jesus instead?
If I am hungry should Jesus eat my food will that solve my problem of hunger?
We must believe logic not emotional blackmail trump supporting churches preach
He loves you
I already disproved you Yahweh so I’m not scared of him or his lies
https://youtu.be/Hs4_T1mpa4Q?si=lISl70PzBRWVKgv2