Omar thinks I have political beliefs based on religion: NAME ONE
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After 6 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...
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- Three days
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BoP is on pro (or Omar hopefully if he doesn't wussy out) to prove I have just ONE political belief based on religion. I will waive the first round, and pro will start out the arguments. Pro will then waive the last round. Only rebuttals in last round.
My opponent has decided to make a half-hearted argument (IMO) about where morality stems from and basically made a chain of it. I'd rather stick to the actual belief, but oh well.
I do not argue morality from a religious standpoint, for example, I wouldn't punish those who swear just because it is moral in Christianity to "not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth." Politically, my morality comes from societal norms and basic laws which are currently in place(ex. do not murder).
I would like to clarify my position on this topic. I do not believe illegals should be able to come into the U.S. This is because there are violent criminals and drug smugglers which we do not have track of because they cross illegally. I also think illegals should not be able to cut in front of other LEGAL immigrants who are waiting for a very long time in line to come to the U.S. There is nothing religious about this, it is simply fair.
I prefer to use my more in depth stance on "gay marriage".
Principles of right and wrong are among societal standards and existing laws.
Prostitution is illegal, which is why I am against it.
It is wrong to enslave a human being and to treat them less than another human being.
This is common decency which is established among societal standards.
Nothing religious about this.
Principles of right and wrong are among societal standards and existing laws.
My opponent is making an argument and using where morality and politics stems from. This is not a valid example since my particular views themselves are not based on this.
This is much like if an atheist believed that guns should be banned in the idea that people should not be murdered.
Not murdering is a societal norm, and if this person is atheist how does this "morality" come from Christianity?
If he did he would have put it in the BIG Issues.
He values Christianity therefore the laws that he wants are based on that value for Christianity.
First off, my DDO stances are outdated for the most part, as I wrote those a year ago.
It is important to note that Omar said I have political beliefs based on my religion before I gave him my DDO profile. https://www.debateart.com/debates/758?open_tab=comments&comments_page=8 This has all the comments a few days ago of omar accusing me that all my political beliefs are religion.
Per the rules, I waive this round. Omar has requested a list to my beliefs, so here is the link on the "BIG issues."---https://www.debate.org/Our_Boat_is_Right/Good luck.
After Omar asked me to give a list to my beliefs in the comment section of this debate, I gave him my DDO page and said
I would like you to list out your positions.If you don't want to simply copy your DDO profile as Round 1.
To hard to copy and paste all of those. I will put the link to all of them, and you can simply quote me on it. I will clarify if needed on my position.
"I will clarify if needed on my position," to which he obviously saw because he commented after I said that.
There is 30k characters and you have 3 days. Don't lie to me about not being able to type out your political beliefs.
Omar accused me of this before I gave him my DDO profile, so it is disingenuous for him to just go off the SHORT DESCRIPTIONS of DDO.
I clarified my position on this, but my opponent insists he use my exact words.
Morality does not necessarily come from religion.
Like I said, I get my morality off of what society thinks.
Morality or moral sense is also built into our DNA and shaped by future experiences. My opponent is just assuming I get my morality in politics off Christianity.
Gay marriage is the exact same thing as civil unions
so I explained my legal stance on the matter more in depth on the "Gay Marriage" tab. It has the exact same words as civil unions, I just elaborate on what it means. Cherry-picking this is unfortunate.
Which is exactly what I did in the "gay marriage" issue.I say "religiously, I am against it." This is specifically saying my religious belief, and not my political belief. I explained why government should not get in it.
So when I looked this up a bunch of months ago I saw it in the slavery context. I was saying prostitution in slavery is immoral. That would be the most plausible explanation, I could have also been referring to normal prostitution religiously(not politically).
I have also clarified this in the comment section.
When it comes to this issue, I also don't think government should get into this. I am not very educated on this, but I think it should be allowed a free market or privatized rules should decide it. However, I also don't know the downsides of it, it could be harmful to the people doing it, it could be inappropriate in public, but I feel there could be multiple problems to it. I am undecided on this, therefore religion can not determine a political issue that I don't know. I've also heard this talked about very little, only in the slavery context, so if it political, it is a very small/not talked about issue
This is an opinion and assumption that he doesn't know to clearly be true.
Just would like to make another reminder he has not given me the courtesy of addressing my points. Instead he is carrying on what he did in the last Round which is disregard what I said in Round 1 since it was based on outdated information but still for some reason give arguments against my position.
I am left with the assumption he uses the Bible as a basis for his morality.
Omar should be able to tell me a political belief I have directly based on religion because he claimed I did before I showed him my DDO profile. I challenge him to do so.
I literally said the exact same thing but just elaborated on it on the DDO tab. I already explained what I meant. Religiously, I am against it. Politically, I don't think the government should be in the business of private stuff. That is my belief about almost everything on government. I am fine if you are gay, but I don't think government should tell you who to marry and who not to. This is rebutting your claim. I specifically ave already stated multiple times my political and religious beliefs on this topic are different. I am waiting for you to rebut my claims.
Almost all things that are moral in Christianity are considered moral among society and governing laws. Like I have already said, any additional religious beliefs of mine contrary to what the majority of society thinks are not in my political beliefs. For example, gay marriage. I am against it as a Christian but not politically. I think gay marriage is your choice and I have no problem with your beliefs.
Omar is playing the victim here claiming it is unfair to him because it was on my DDO page.
Like I said, he claimed I had beliefs off Religion before I gave him my DDO link. So this is invalid.
I am undecided on this topic.
This is true. I do. Not politically though, as society is in line with the Bible on a majority of the topics.
What the instigator does not realise is that the debate started when you posted your link in Round 1. It didn't start before that. If you thought a DDO profile was not enough information or wrong information you would have provided a better source for me to say how your political beliefs are based on Religion. Bearing in mind you had 3 days to find a source you agree with.
The only point of substance he can bring to not wanting gay marriage is "I don't think the government should be in the business of private stuff". This is less substantial than his Religious point of "I am against it". I already know he is a Christian so it is easy to understand why he is against homosexuality but his I don't like the government doing this is not a substantial point. For the instigator to not understand that really is a testament of his lack of ability as a debater.
I still await you to rebut my very first argument. I specifically targeted Civil Unions but you didn't like it so you changed my argument so it was easier for you to rebut. Debating doesn't work like that. You are supposed to rebut my argument not a straw-man that you made up of my argument.
This is false. Abortion is legal but Christianity opposes it therefore Christianity is against what society deemed to be the right way of governing laws. The instigator is saying here I don't value my Religion enough to have it as a basis for anything I do. A Religion is supposed to be the most important thing of any Religious person and for the instigator to say this thing is not based on what I believe Religiously is false if he was a practising Christian.
Instead of debunking my claim he basically takes the middle ground. He is not taking the opposite site to my argument here instead says I don't know and expects me to have said something about it.I still await you to actually rebut my arguments in Round 1.
He pretty much admits that his morality comes from Christianity. Since laws are based on morals. He has pretty much admitted to basing his political positions on his morality which is Christianity.