Instigator / Pro
18
1641
rating
63
debates
65.08%
won
Topic
#951

Donald Trump Is Racist

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
6
3
Better sources
6
2
Better legibility
3
3
Better conduct
3
3

After 3 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

Speedrace
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
11
1395
rating
22
debates
20.45%
won
Description

Racist: showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.

I will be using the reasons stated in my previous debate on this topic.

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

*******************************************************************
Vote Reported: Our_Boat_is_Right // Mod Action: Not Removed

Reason for mod action: The vote was found to be sufficient per the site voting policy standards.


*******************************************************************

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@Speedrace

LOL the reported vote just hurt you more XD

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

*******************************************************************
Vote Reported:Our_Boat_is_Right // Mod Action: Removed

Points awarded: 3 points to con for arguments, 1 point to pro for conduct

RFD: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E_AbjebQThhPKsDDkHDkuSTuT4oqrXPkx-X4Tjb6u30/edit?usp=sharing

Reason for mod action: While arguments are fine, the conduct point isn't. To award conduct points, the voter must (1) identify specific instances of misconduct, (2) explain how this misconduct was excessive, unfair, or in breach of the debate's rules, and (3) compare each debater's conduct. 
 Misconduct is excessive when it is extremely frequent and/or when it causes the debate to become incoherent or extremely toxic. In the case of awarding conduct points solely on the basis of forfeits, there is an exception to these steps: a debater may award conduct points solely for forfeited rounds, but only if one debater forfeited half or more of their rounds or if the voter also awards argument points (or explains their decision not to award argument points in a manner which meets the argument points voting standards).

The voter should review the COC here: https://www.debateart.com/rules
The voter should also review this: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/346?page=1&post_number=4

*******************************************************************

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

"Trump implied that white supremacists were morally equivalent to the people resisting racism."
Pro does not provide any direct evidence for this and it is a cat fight back and forth about the sourcing. This point was a mess, so I can't award points for this.

"Trump said there are "some very fine people" among white supremacists."
Con provides the context of Trump's quote and his clarification that he wasn't talking about the Nazis and white supremacists. He shows that there were counter protestors of the taking down of the statue that weren't associated with the rally, so with all this, it is very clear Trump was not being racist.

"Trump racially discriminated against black people in his apartment building."
Con responds by saying Trump avoided renting welfare, no matter the race. This was also in the 1900's a long time ago, and the resolution says "IS racist", not "was." Either way, this comment does not prove Trump IS racist in current day.

All of this said, the argument point goes to con as there were not enough clear and cut examples of racism.

Sources: Tied

Spelling/Grammar: Tied

Conduct: Con dropped multiple points, although he did mention most of them later down the debate, it disrupted the flow of those points and didn't allow for nuanced discussion on them. Conduct to Pro.

Good job to both debaters. Interesting debate.

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@dustryder

I lost my voting privileges and I am trying to get them back by posting 3 good RFDs.

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@Alec

If you think your vote is sufficient, then just post it. There's little harm in trying and rejection is the first step to success. If you stick to the CoC however, you'll be fine

Going by the CoC, for conduct, you haven't explained why Speedrace's conduct was excessive. For sources, you haven't explained how the sources have impacted the debate.

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@Alec

Lol hardly but whatever

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@Speedrace

It's close.

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@Alec

How is saying "unless you're racist" calling someone racist? It's not...

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@David

Conduct point: General Grant.

Pro called Con a racist in , "Well, unless you’re racist, I’m not sure how you’d know that." in Round 3. This is poor conduct.

Sources: Speedrace

Pro cites many times in the debate, although most if not all of them were biased. He also cites twitter, which sows Trump saying what he said. Con only cites once and it's Stephen Crowder.

Spelling and Arguments: Tied.

Is this a good RFD?

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@Speedrace

Quit whining, the white supremacist one wouldnt change my mind on that point anyway.

TO WHOEVER'S JUDGING THE VOTE

First of all, I didn't drop a single point. I literally mentioned all of my points in every single round.

For the implying white supremacist one, I said MULTIPLE times that it was in my source. He ignored that completely.

And I think the other ones are obvious...he seems to be interpolating his opinion in rather than evaluating what happened in the debate.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

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@dustryder

Ok YoU GoT mE!

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@Dr.Franklin

But there would be no violence or conflict from either side if America were a white anglo ethnostate. Checkmate

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@dustryder

nope not even close, the "violence" was orchestrated by antifa because unite the right was peaceful until they came

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@Dr.Franklin

What would the white nationalists in Charlottesville be protesting about if America were a white anglo ethnostate? The single reason why white nationalist ideology exists in the first place is due to the presence of the aforementioned races. Hence, the events at Charlottesville can be entirely be blamed upon those races.

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

>:P

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@Speedrace

" Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, thrice is a habit."

Thrice? XD

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@dustryder

I was assigning blame for Charlottesville. Please tell me how these races have anything to do with my claims

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@Dr.Franklin

Weren't we just assigning blame? Well the blame clearly lies at the feet of muslims, jews, mexicans, asians and native americans in america. I don't know what you're so confused about

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@dustryder

Ok, what does that have to do with with ANYTHING

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@Dr.Franklin

Don't be ridiculous. The violence at charlottesville was clearly caused by the presence of muslims, jews, mexicans, asians and native americans in America. To suggest otherwise is frankly naive and unpatriotic.

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@Speedrace

What he meant by "very fine people" was there was peaceful protestors. and and DID YOU JUST USE VOX AS A SOURCE

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@dustryder

Ok your taking this way out of context. All I was implying that the violence at Charlottesville, was made by both sides.

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@Dr.Franklin

You could certainly go down the road of ultimate blame.

The perpetrator wouldn't of done the deed if Antifa hadn't been there
Antifa wouldn't've been there if the white supremacists hadn't been there
The white supremacists wouldn't've been there if America were a pure white-anglo ethnostate.
America would be a pure white-anglo ethnostate if it weren't for those pesky muslims/jews/mexicans/asians/native americans.

Therefore muslims, jews, mexicans, asians, native americans in America are ultimately the blame for that single persons actions.

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@dustryder

No, antifa was part of the cause

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@Dr.Franklin

You keep victim blaming. The only person who needs blame is the person who did it.

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@dustryder

All im saying is that Antifa needs blame for the attack as well

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@Dr.Franklin

"He was running away from Antifa" *is* a justification. It implies that there was an element of self-defence.

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@dustryder

I understand there is no justification, but he was running away from Antifa. Antifa needs to get blamed for violence as well

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@Dr.Franklin

What "crazy left-wingers"? Footage of the incident clearly shows the dude just randomly driving into the crowd. It sounds like you're victim blaming here. There is absolutely no justification for intentionally slamming a car into a crowd of people.

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@Speedrace

look at the video, he denounced white supremacists

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@Speedrace

So ig u concede ur position because you saw the context of his quote.

It isn't about supporting his actions as it relates to today's norms, its about supporting the statue of a historical figure who did some great things as well. It's about the history of our country and wars. So since Jefferson owned slaves should we just not talk about him, rip down all his statues, and complain about how he owned slaves? Slavery was part of the culture back then. Times are different today.

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

So you would support a Confederate general who promotes slavery? And you would be friends with people like that?

Also, Trump saying he isn’t racist doesn’t make him not racist. That’s like saying a murderer isn’t a murderer if he say something he isn’t one.

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@Speedrace

Do you even read the Charlottesville quote? Trump very clearly denounced white supremacists and racism in the exact same question so don't try to twist his words when he made it clear what he was referring too. This is what I'm talking about when I say your being disingenuous, illogical, and don't look at any context.

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@Dr.Franklin

Neither of those stop Trump from being racist

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@Speedrace

I hope you realize that at Charlottesville, it was Antifa that started the violence. The only reason a white supremacist ran over Heather Heyer is because crazy left wingers were chasing him. Also, Trump attacked White supremacists- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qD47QFFkTU

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

And what's your justification for my reasoning not being logical? Because you disagree with it?

I only ever use logic.

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@Speedrace

I can actually back my logical up with reasoning and context...which you knowingly yourself don't have...stop deceiving yourself.

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

Ah, so what you say is logical because you say it, but what I say is illogical because I say it?

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@Speedrace

I can back it up with logic and context, that is the difference.

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@Dr.Franklin

Yeah, I'm glad you agree with me! :)

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@Speedrace

TrUmp Is raCisT! TotAllY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWam9FSRvGI

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

You're arbitrarily deciding that he DIDN'T mean racist things. That's a double standard.

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@Speedrace

It's based on logic and reasoning. Not arbitrarily deciding what Trump meant in some of his comments and connecting it to racism, instead of the actual policy reason or context that does not have to do with race.

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

Precisely, you're saying they're logical because they agree with YOU. By that logic, all liberals are logical because they agree with me.

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@Speedrace

Because they can realize Trump is obviously not racist, and see your mis-contexted claims and lies. You have no real evidence.

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

Ah, so they're logical just because they agree with you?

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@Speedrace

Perhaps, at least they would be logical about it.