Why you must use faith to accept naturalistic explanations to the origin of christian belief.

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11.15.2023 11:25PM

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So I made a post a few weeks (?) back about me doubting naturalistic theories for why christians claimed the resurrection happened. The answers I received for naturalistic theories were rather disappointing. I have seen no naturalistic theories that can explain the 8 criteria I have that a theory would have to meet.

Given this, how can you believe in a naturalistic theory without using faith, since they are obviously contrary to what happened & without evidence.

#2

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11.16.2023 12:00AM

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11.16.2023 12:00AM

Great. More words.

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IlDiavolo

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IlDiavolo

11.16.2023 02:36AM

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11.16.2023 02:36AM

What do you want, dude? There are no many christians in this forum, as far as I can see.

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n8nrgim

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n8nrgim

11.16.2023 03:09AM

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11.16.2023 03:09AM

i dont have enough faith to be an atheist

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11.16.2023 07:11AM

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@SethBrown

Christian belief.

This is a self explanatory statement.

Therefore Faith is the only option.

And naturalism is neither here nor there

You're kind of stating the obvious.

But not proving anything more than the obvious.

Topic's author

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11.16.2023 01:02PM

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@zedvictor4

By Christian belief, I mean what Christianity is stemmed from, the supposed resurrection. Since there is no naturalistic explanation for why the original Christians claimed the resurrection (atleast none I’ve seen) how is it not faith to accept a naturalistic explanation?

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11.16.2023 01:14PM

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@SethBrown

You mean like Valhalla?

I guess we have to accept that Valhalla exists now. Which is good, I do like Valhalla more than heaven.

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11.16.2023 10:50PM

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@Best.Korea

No, I dont see any reason to believe vahalah exists.

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@Best.Korea

No, I dont see any reason to believe vahalah exists.

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11.17.2023 07:26AM

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@SethBrown

How is it not faith to accept a naturalistic explanation?

Accepting a naturalistic explanation relies upon faith.

That was my point.

Though I would suggest that a factional religion, usually stems from what went before.

The resurrection bit is just the supernatural designed to enthral the gullible.

And then 500 years or so later along came Muhammad with his spin on the stem.

#11

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https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10094/posts/415842

11.17.2023 07:13PM

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@n8nrgim

@SethBrown

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n8nrgim and Seth Brown,

N8NRGIM, YOUR QUOTE RELATIVE TO ATHEISM: "i dont have enough faith to be an atheist "

N8NRGIM, relative to your quote above, good for you, praise! The Atheist cannot accept the FACT that we Christians have to follow Jesus' inspired words within the scriptures relative to our children, like the few biblically shown herewith:

JESUS AS GOD SAID: ”Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou BEATEST him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt BEAT HIM with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs.23:13-14)

JESUS AS GOD SAID: “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.” (Exodus 21:7)

JESUS AS GOD SAID: “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. (Matthew 15: 3-4)

JESUS AS GOD SAID: "I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” (1 Samuel 15:2-3)

JESUS AS GOD AN ABORTIONIST SAID: “The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for their children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered oh Lord. what should I request for your people? I will ask for the wombs that don’t give birth and breast that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. AND IF THEY GIVE BIRTH, I WILL SLAUGHTER THEIR BELOVED CHILDREN. (Hosea 9:11-16)

N8NRGIM AND SETH BROWN;

have you ever had to BEAT Children with a rod that left severe bruising because they went out of line to following the Bible's doctrine?

Did you, or any Christian that you know, ever had to sell their daughters into slavery as godly shown that we Christians can do?

Did you as a Christian, or a Christian that you know, ever had to murder one of your children because they cursed their parents?

Thank Jesus as God that we don't have any Amalekites nearby, where we would have to murder their children and infants, agreed?

Since our Jesus as God is shown to be an outright brutal abortionist in the book of Hosea, notwithstanding His Great Flood, remember, DO NOT attend any anti abortion events in the name of Christianity in case those ungodly pro-abortionists know about Hosea 9:11-16, and turn the table upon Christians that our God set an example that it is okay to abort the zygote of fetus, agreed?

N8NRGIM AND SETH BROWN; IT IS TOTALLY HARD TO BE A TRUE CHRISTIAN IN THE 21ST CENTURY THAT FOLLOWS ALL OF JESUS' INSPIRED WORDS, DO YOU AGREE?

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11.18.2023 12:15AM

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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas

This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread

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11.18.2023 12:19AM

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@n8nrgim

Brother d has no understanding of the old covenant, if you want I can tell you the rebuttal to his comment (through messages since this is off topic of the thread)

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11.18.2023 06:02PM

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@SethBrown

YOUR OUTRIGHT UNGODLY QUOTE IN FRONT OF THE EYES OF JESUS (HEBREWS 4:13)!!!!!!!: "By Christian belief, I mean what Christianity is stemmed from, the supposed resurrection."

What did you just say in your Devil Speak quote above? Where you Satanically said "the supposed resurrection?!" Who in the hell do you think you are in slapping Jesus in the face again with your Bible Stupidity which is BLASPHEME on your part regarding His resurrection!

SETH, READ YOUR BIBLE YOU STUPID BIBLE FOOL!!!

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, (John 11:25)

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

“EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5)

What part of the Proverbs passage above don't you understand when it says EVERY WORD OF GOD IS FLAWLESS, therefore Jesus' resurrection happened, understood Bible fool?

OMG, as if you weren't Bible Stupid enough in this thread of yours https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10080-in-the-bible-was-jesus-from-the-flesh-of-david and now you have the audacity to question Jesus' resurrection? HOW DARE YOU!

Christians, as we can see the minion of Satan "Seth Brown" is NOT A CHRISTIAN for chastising Jesus in the way he has done! Therefore ALL pseudo-christians are to stay away from Seth Brown as this biblical passages so states: "Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works." (John 1:9-11)

NEXT BIBLE DUMBFOUNDED PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "SETH BROWN" THAT DOES NOT ACCEPT JESUS' RESURRECTION, WILL BE ...?

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11.18.2023 06:37PM

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@SethBrown

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Seth Brown, who is sent here by Satan Himself to question Jesus' resurrection,

YOUR BIBLE STUPID QUOTE EQUAL TO MISS TRADESECRET'S BIBLE DUNCERY®️: "This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread"

I was answering the equal Bible fool to you, n8nrgim in my post #11, in his quote of "i dont have enough faith to be an atheist," and then included you as well since YOU are the creator of this embarrassing thread of yours again, in wanting to agree or disagree with what I said, understood?

Since you brought up my post #11 IN MAKING IT KNOWN, then have you ever had to do the following:

1. Have you ever had to BEAT Children with a rod that left severe bruising because they went out of line to following the Bible's doctrine? (Proverbs.23:13-14)

2. Did you, or any Christian that you know, ever had to sell their daughters into slavery as godly shown that we Christians can do? (Exodus 21:7)

3. Did you as a Christian, or a Christian that you know, ever had to murder one of your children because they cursed their parents? (Matthew 15: 3-4)

4. Thank Jesus as God that we don't have any Amalekites nearby, where we would have to murder their children and infants, agreed? (1 Samuel 15:2-3)

5. Since our Jesus as God is shown to be an outright brutal abortionist in the book of Hosea, notwithstanding His Great Flood, remember, DO NOT attend any anti abortion events in the name of Christianity in case those ungodly pro-abortionists know about Hosea 9:11-16, and turn the table upon Christians that our God set an example that it is okay to abort the zygote of fetus, agreed? (Hosea 9:11-16)

Therefore, what is your lame EXCUSE to RUN AWAY from Jesus' inspired words above this time? Are you too SCARED to address Biblical FACTS again like I have had to do in being the ONLY True Christian upon this Religion Forum?

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11.18.2023 06:50PM

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@SethBrown

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Seth Brown, who is sent here by Satan Himself to question Jesus' resurrection,

YOUR STATEMENT TO THE EQUALLY BIBLE INEPT N8NRGIM: " Brother d has no understanding of the old covenant, if you want I can tell you the rebuttal to his comment (through messages since this is off topic of the thread)"

HUH? What is there to understand in my LITERAL PASSAGES that were inspired by none other than Jesus Himself in my post #11 that needs your inept Bible rebuttal?! Are you too afraid to post your assumed rebuttal within your thread because you will be made the Bible Stupid Fool again, is that it?

By all means, HIDE YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE STUPIDITY from the membership in a message to n8nrgim regarding my LITERALLY SPOKEN passages in my post #11 that you continue to RUN AWAY from and are HIDING from just like Miss Tradesecret has to do, LOL!

NEXT BIBLE FOOL LIKE "SETH BROWN" THAT HAS TO HIDE FROM JESUS' LITERAL TRUE WORDS, WILL BE ...?

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#17

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11.18.2023 07:47PM

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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas

@ SethBrown: Are you too afraid to post your assumed rebuttal within your thread because you will be made the Bible Stupid Fool again, is that it?

Yes indeed Brother D. It called getting someone to take the leap before himself. All very cowardly.

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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas

What did you just say in your Devil Speak quote above? Where you Satanically said "the supposed resurrection?!" Who in the hell do you think you are in slapping Jesus in the face again with your Bible Stupidity which is BLASPHEME on your part regarding His resurrection!

You say "Supposed resurrection" since not everyone agrees it was a resurrection, your an idiot trying to be smart.

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11.18.2023 11:26PM

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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas

I was answering the equal Bible fool to you, n8nrgim in my post #11, in his quote of "i dont have enough faith to be an atheist," and then included you as well since YOU are the creator of this embarrassing thread of yours again, in wanting to agree or disagree with what I said, understood?

What did your post have to do with #11, and you dont need to tag me in since it had no relevance to me. Stop clogging up my thread.

Since you brought up my post #11 IN MAKING IT KNOWN, then have you ever had to do the following:

No I dont, you have no idea what the old covenant vs new covenant is, make your own thread, and if you want to debate me specifically send a debate request.

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11.19.2023 07:29PM

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@SethBrown

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Seth Brown, who is sent here by Satan Himself to question Jesus' resurrection,

Do you deny Jesus' resurrection like I have shown you do by questioning it in my post #14?

Don't be SCARED to answer this simple question in front of the membership.

And your answer is:

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https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10094/posts/416109

11.19.2023 08:12PM

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@SethBrown

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Seth Brown, who is sent here by Satan Himself to question Jesus' resurrection,

YOUR QUOTE IN POST #18 SHOWING THAT WHAT YOU ARE AGAINST, YOU ARE GUILTY OF!!!: "You say "Supposed resurrection" since not everyone agrees it was a resurrection, your an idiot trying to be smart."

YOUR EXACT QUOTE IN YOUR FEEBLE POST #6 WHERE YOU STATED "THE SUPPOSED RESURRECTION": "By Christian belief, I mean what Christianity is stemmed from, the supposed resurrection."

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10094/posts/415869

When you specifically stated in your quote above the term; "the supposed resurrection," are you in turn an idiot that is trying to look smart like you stated in your post #18 above?

How can I allegedly be clogging up your inept thread when I am just calling you out upon your continued Bible Stupidity like I and others showed you in your most embarrassing thread regarding Jesus NOT being from the linage of David, and that you are now RUNNING AWAY from in embarrassment for being Bible Slapped Silly®️ by Jesus' true words and myself and othersf! LOL!!!

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#22

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https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/rules

11.19.2023 08:23PM

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@Stephen

@SethBrown

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Seth Brown, who is sent here by Satan Himself to question Jesus' resurrection,

YOUR QUOTE AGAIN, AND AGAIN, THAT YOU ARE TOO SCARED TO BRING FORTH RELATIVE TO ME: "No I dont, you have no idea what the old covenant vs new covenant is."

Are you that SCARED in front of the membership to at least TRY and show me even in a brief way why the Old Testament does not relate to my ever so revealing post #11 that you continue to RUN AWAY from with your little boy lame excuses? https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10094/posts/415983

Are you AFRAID that you will once again be made the inept Bible Stupid Fool again, like you were made in your ever so embarrassing "Jesus is from the linage of David" thread as shown herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10080-in-the-bible-was-jesus-from-the-flesh-of-david

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#23

Lemming

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Lemming

11.19.2023 08:36PM

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@SethBrown

If Mr.BrotherD.Thomas does not leave your thread, I encourage you to report him and his posts to one of the mods, whiteflame for example.

If Mr.BrotherD.Thomas doesn't stop spamming his trolling in your threads, he would be breaking the DART Code of Conduct.

"Spam is prohibited, and any overtly repetitive nonsensical posts are considered spam." - DART COC

"If a member politely requests that you leave them alone, do so. Repeated failure to comply, is a clear aggravating factor regarding the content of said posts.

- DART COC

"Targeted harassment of any member prohibited" - DART COC

The Moderators seem to take reports from the targets of harassment more seriously than bystander reports of harassment.

I would also like to argue that it is better for the community if individuals who break the DART Code of Conduct are held responsible,

Even if 'you have thick skin towards them,

'Not reporting certain actions by them,

Allows them to act that way towards other users.

Observe his words to swordburial17 here,

"Heads up, we're going to have a lot of fun with YOU like we did with the other disgusting camel herder Muslim tigerlord, where you will now take his place, so "chain up" because your ride in this forum is going to be real bumpy at your expense!" - BrotherD.Thomas #45 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9532-non-fallacious-defenses-of-muhammad?page=2

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11.19.2023 10:32PM

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@Lemming

Lemming #23

You are quite good at taking offence on behalf oft others aren't you, Lemming. It won't be the first time that you have egged on and encouraged members to report other members, will it?

Where is the "targeted harassment" that you seem to be claiming to witness?

I see nothing harassing in those posts, maybe a little rhetoric nothing more. Seth Brown a Christian, has made a clear reference to what he has called the "supposed resurrection" of Christ. Do you not see the problem with that? And in the same post he has referred to another member as an "idiot" for questioning the doubt about the resurrection in that comment?

Seth Brown a Christian has then gone on to suggest that the Brother has no understanding of the bible and the "OT covenant" in particular,<<< this is a challenge to a members biblical knowledge and his integrity. Are you saying that a member - the Brother in this instance- has no right to defend himself against his critics?

And you seem to have missed the point that Seth Brown a Christian has offered to but the bullets in for other members to fire at the Brother via private messages.#13 <<< This is encouraging a member to plie on another member on his behalf and all very cowardly, imo. And without looking is probably against C of C rules itself.

So unless you personally have any problems with another member , I politely suggest that you keep your shit stirring advice to others about reporting members to moderation to yourself.

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11.20.2023 05:55PM

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@Lemming

@SethBrown

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Seth Brown, who is sent here by Satan Himself to question Jesus' resurrection,

I am truly sorry that LEMMING had to interfere with your thread in his wanting post #23 relative to me, but in turn, showing that you can't defend yourself where LEMMING came to your rescue, whereas I have to take the time in your thread to easily refute this hell-bound atheist just like you would do in return if he made posts to you in the same content!

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11.20.2023 06:01PM

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@Lemming

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LEMMING’S DECEPTIVE NOTION QUOTE THAT I AM SPAMMING AND TROLLING THIS THREAD: “If Mr.BrotherD.Thomas does not leave your thread, I encourage you to report him and his posts to one of the mods, whiteflame for example. If Mr.BrotherD.Thomas doesn't stop spamming his trolling in your threads, he would be breaking the DART Code of Conduct.”

"Spam is prohibited, and any overtly repetitive nonsensical posts are considered spam." - DART COC
"If a member politely requests that you leave them alone, do so. Repeated failure to comply, is a clear aggravating factor regarding the content of said posts.
DART COC
"Targeted harassment of any member prohibited" - DART COC
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/rules"
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10094/posts/416193

LEMMING’S inadequate mind set cannot differentiate between my logical discussion upon the topic of this thread of which I am doing with biblical vouchsafing, and where he thinks that I am ALLEGEDLY spamming and trolling, but, what did we expect from a hell bound atheists point of view to begin with?

LEMMING can only dream about the knowledge that I biblically have in this Religion Forum in refuting outright Bible stupid pseudo-christians like Seth Brown that says that Jesus' resurrection is in question! Whereas LEMMING, as shown, has to sit upon the sidelines and just watch certain members that have forgotten more than he will ever learn relative to discussion in a Religion Forum! LOL!

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11.20.2023 06:03PM

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@Lemming

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LEMMING’S CONTINUED IGNORANT QUOTE PERTAINING TO HIS DECEPTIVE PROPOSITIONS AGAIN: “The Moderators seem to take reports from the targets of harassment more seriously than bystander reports of harassment. I would also like to argue that it is better for the community if individuals who break the DART Code of Conduct are held responsible, Even if 'you have thick skin towards them, 'Not reporting certain actions by them, Allows them to act that way towards other users.
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10094/posts/416193"

As stated before, I have NOT broken the DART COC rules with my engaging Seth Brown within this thread in biblically refuting his notion of questioning the resurrection of Jesus the Christ, and if need be, Jesus’ true words and I will refute other members that take this same position, whereas LEMMING doesn’t understand that this forum is for “discussion” and not for “running away from discussion,” like LEMMING has to do because of his lack of knowledge to the topic at hand, period!

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@Lemming

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GOD FOR BID, LEMMING GIVES AN EXAMPLE OF ME TAKING ON A HELL BOUND MUSLIM WHOSE FAITH’S LEADER MUHAMMAD MARRIED AN INNOCENT 6 YEAR OLD GIRL NAMED AISHA, AND WHERE MUSLIM MEN 3 TO 4 TIMES OLDER THAN INNOCENT 9 YEAR OLD GIRLS, CAN MARRY THEM TODAY!!!: “Observe his words to swordburial17 here,
"Heads up, we're going to have a lot of fun with YOU like we did with the other disgusting camel herder Muslim tigerlord, where you will now take his place, so "chain up" because your ride in this forum is going to be real bumpy at your expense!" - BrotherD.Thomas #45 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9532-non-fallacious-defenses-of-muhammad?page=2

As I have told many within this forum, I take the very emotive position that Jesus did, as an example to follow, in the Temple scenario where He found money changers, and where cattle and sheep were being sold, and where my ever loving and forgiving Jesus made a whip of chords to brutally beat these ungodly people in His Temple, and ran them out yelling; “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” (John 2: 13-17)

Any hell-bound Muslim that takes the position of their faith being acceptable, where in part, Muslim men can BEAT THEIR WIVES, and marry innocent 9 YEAR OLD GIRLS in the 21st century is not acceptable to any religious faith! Therefore, God forbid, I take a no prisoners modus operandi when in discussion with certain members that agree that their Muslim faith is acceptable, when it is NOT in my statements in said thread that LEMMING has shown where he wasn’t able to comment upon, but just to hide upon the sidelines and remain silent as usual!

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#29

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https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9532/posts/397808

11.20.2023 06:16PM

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@Lemming

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LEMMING’S QUOTE BELOW ONCE AGAIN BEING A “CRY-BABY” IN THE THREAD HE MENTIONED REGARDING MY POST #45 WHEN SHOWING THAT I BLATANTLY TOOK ON THE MUSLIM SWORDBURIEL17 WHERE HE DIDN’T THINK THIS WAS APPROPRIATE, BOO HOO!, SNIFFLE, SNIFFLE:

“I don't know why 'this post, #45 is the one I finally went through with reporting, I don't tend to read BrotherD.Thomas's posts, And view it more the responsibility of those he interacts with, to report him or not. But, I find myself bothered, annoyed, Whether this one is 'worse than usual, A straw, Or seeing an honest person, genuinely reaching out with good intentions, be so maligned. . .

Then again, there have been other good people, And one can't 'truly tell who people are online, 'just from their posts, But the posts I found good, 'seemed telling of a good person, good intentions. Anyway, reported.

As shown AGAIN above, LEMMING reported my post #45 in Barney’s thread, and the irony is that Barney, are evenhanded moderator, posted a refutation to swordburiel17 in his post #50 where as a moderator, he obviously did not think that my said post #45 in question was worthy of reporting because he didn’t give me a warning!: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9532/posts/397835

If LEMMING is accusing me of spamming and trolling in this thread of Seth Browns, then why didn’t he follow through and report Barney when he took on swordburiel17 4 TIMES IN HIS OWN THREAD as shown below; entitled “Non-fallacious defenses of Muhammad” where we BOTH think that pedophilia is wrong in allowing it in ANY religion in the 21st century!

POST 30: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9532/posts/397752

POST 41: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9532/posts/397795

POST 50: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9532/posts/397835

POST 54: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9532/posts/398070

Barney’s meaningful thread in question to my post #45:

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9532/posts/397558

YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT WITHIN RELIGION FORUMS THROUGHOUT THE INTERNET, THAT WHEN MEMBERS LIKE "LEMMING" BEING EMBARRASSED THAT HE CAN'T IN ANY WAY DISCUSS THE TOPICS OF THREADS, THEY HAVE TO LASH OUT TOWARDS MEMBERS LIKE ME THAT CAN!

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