Reasons I am not Christian

Author: Best.Korea

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#31
Stephen
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@Best.Korea
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Tradesecret, Wrote@ Best.Korea.  at least attempt to prevent Brother or Stephen from their attacking and criticism and condemnation [of homosexuals & transvestites?]#27

I cannot speak for Brother D.  But I will speak for myself:

I would like for the Reverend Tradesecret to show me anywhere in the whole of this forum that I have condemned or criticised homosexuals & transvestites?

And, in return I can give  examples where it is god  himself  that condemned and criticised homosexuals & transvestites and authorises the depth penalty for what he himself describes as an "abomination"..


Leviticus 20:13 New King James Version
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.


 Deuteronomy 22:5   A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.

#32
Tradesecret
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@Best.Korea
Condemnation DOESN'T cause suicide.  
I have already provided you studies which show that condemning trans increases their suicide rate. I know that you reject science. Its obvious.

I provided two examples.
So you dont even understand how statistics work?
Seriously???? 

I don't reject science.  It is you who is rejecting sound science. You provided a study but you didn't bother checking to see how many studies refute your view.  

My two examples have nothing to do with statistics.  I presented an argument that condemning someone for being who they are does not provide an automatic cause to produce suicide.  There is no study with any good science that presents that such a thing occurs.  If it is true for one group or even two groups does not mean it happens for every group that is condemned. Therefore, according to the science of logic, it is not an absolute finding to say that condemning anyone will cause them to suicide.  

And if there are groups that are more susceptible to committing suicide after being condemned or some kind of shaming, then it is necessary to look at the groups themselves to see why they are more susceptible. It is BAD science to suggest that the only cause is because they are shamed.   
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#33
Best.Korea
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@Tradesecret
I presented an argument that condemning someone for being who they are does not provide an automatic cause to produce suicide.
So you are playing clueless again.

First, your example had nothing to do with trans people. So you are just punching strawman.

Second, no one ever claimed that everyone who is condemned will commit suicide.

The studies consistently show that trans persons who are condemned by their parents or environment are much more likely to commit suicide.

Therefore, condemning them would make them kill themselves at a higher rate. 

Therefore, condemning them is wrong.

You go around saying how you dont condemn trans while at the same time defending the condemnation of trans.

There is only so much stupidity that you can use before it becomes too obvious.
#34
Tradesecret
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@Best.Korea
at least attempt to prevent Brother or Stephen from their attacking and criticism and condemnation
No, I think they are beneficial to the site, since they mostly debate Christians and muslims. You do understand how Lex talionis works? Your God used it in the Bible, so the idea of you pretending to be some innocent victim while being the first to attack is absurd, but Christianity itself is absurd ideology.

I think it is beneficial to point homosexuals to Christ. And also Trans.  

Yet your puny argument is not about benefits, it is about condemning people.  Stephen and Brother have both condemned people and their position on this site. Stephen has on many occasions effectively damned Muslims and many Christians. The Brother does it on almost every response to every person. 

If the reason you are not a Christian is because they condemn homosexuals and trans - (which I categorically deny), then for you to accept atheism or hinduism or polytheism or whatever you are but also condemning Muslims and Christians, then you are shooting yourself in the foot and demonstrating you do not understand the inconsistency you are in. 

Yes, I understand - an eye for an eye.  It is not about attacking someone who attacks you. It is about fairness in the response against someone who hurts you. It is about asking no more than what occurred to you. 

God was absolutely fair in the bible and when he wasn't, it was because he was being super fair.  That is what grace and mercy is all about. You are so ignorant it hurts. 

Christianity is a religion of grace and mercy.  Sadly, many Christians have not acted like Christians and acted like pagans. This has hurt the Church and Christianity. Nevertheless, this doesn't make it in essence a bad religion or absurd.  It just means that Christians are a work in progress.  And it has much to progress still. But respectfully, it is still miles ahead of the rest.  And the rest rely upon the grace of the church. And the inheritances and blessings of the church.  
#35
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@Best.Korea
When did I defend any condemnation of trans people? Quote please or an apology.  

Waiting?
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#36
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@Tradesecret
When did I defend any condemnation of trans people? 
Right a comment ago, and one more comment ago, and one more comment ago.

Did you change your mind? Do you now think that Bible is wrong and that trans shouldnt be condemned or judged?

Common, make up your mind.
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#37
Best.Korea
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@Tradesecret
Yes, I understand - an eye for an eye.  It is not about attacking someone who attacks you. It is about fairness in the response against someone who hurts you.
So when Christians and muslims condemn atheists and trans first, it follows that exact revenge is required, making current atheists here justified in their actions.

Is this still too complicated for you?
#38
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@IlDiavolo
"Civilized minimally-intelligent people should be capable of determining what is right or wrong."

Interesting so these people wouldn't be dogmatic is that right?

"We shouldn't rely on what a bunch of dogmatic people think we must do. Everyone should be able to determine the right thing to do."

These people wouldn't be "Civilized minimally-intelligent" is that right?

When you say "Everyone" do you mean being an individual making their own individual determination or in agreement altogether on the same accord in an objective sense as a collective determination?

Seems like that golden rule is objective of a people. But I bet you may still find people that'll say that's dogmatic as they don't believe in it. 

I think at the end of it, it's all perspective including what constitutes intelligence and civility.

That's why so many look outside themselves and all these perspectives to an external realm for standard.
#39
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@Best.Korea
Just in your mind as I've discussed with another about perspective, I think I get you being able to identify what wrong is or sin if you will, you're able to see and determine what it is for yourself.

So you not doing anything wrong which from your view is holiness because you are without wrong or you stop doing wrong, would you still not want to be of that?
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#40
Best.Korea
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@Mall
So you not doing anything wrong which from your view is holiness because you are without wrong or you stop doing wrong, would you still not want to be of that?
Wait, you are asking me if I would want to be holy by me first choosing what is holy and then being that?

Well, most people would be satisfied with the label "morally good" by own standards, but sure, "holy" sounds good too.
#41
YouFound_Lxam
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@Best.Korea
Let's go through one by one:

1. I dont want to kill gays.
2. I dont want to kill trans.
People who use Christianity to justify the killing of any person for any reason is not representing Christianity correctly in the slightest. 
As Christians, we are called by Jesus Christ to love everyone, including homosexuals, and transgender persons. We are not called to agree with them, because there lifestyle is unbiblical, but we are called to love and respect all people. 

So, if you're a Christain, you don't kill homosexual or transgender people. 

3. I dont want to praise a God who after creating people, tortures those people by burning them alive for all eternity.
1. I don't know why God created us, but to assume that he just created us for the sole purpose of his enjoyment is illogical, because the Bible made it clear, that the Triune God before creation was in perfect unity with himself. The reason why he created us is unknown, but we know that he didn't create us to burn us alive, or to play a cruel game with us.

Genisis tells us in the creation story (after every day of creation) that "it was good". For God to say something is good, assumes that there was no evil in it. The world before man fell was perfect. God created a perfect world for us. 
The only reason we suffer now, is because God gave us free will, and we chose to tell God to bug off. He respected that decision and left us. That is what sin is. The absence of God.  

So, God created us, but we suffer by our own doing.

4. I dont think its okay to rape women.
Neither does Christianity. The Bible condemns rape in many passages. 

5. I dont think its okay to beat children.
The Bible doesn't think it is ok to beat children either. It only teaches to discipline your children. 

6. I dont want to live a life thinking that I am a sinner just because I was born.
Jesus was born, but he wasn't a sinner. 
See, you're not a sinner because you are born, but you are a sinner because you have sinned.

When the Bible talks about original sin, it does not mean we are all sinful the moment we are conceived. It means that we have a sinful nature as humans. 

There is a reason, that the tree in the garden was named the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. 
Once they ate it, they knew evil from good, and with their free will, they could do now do evil.

And because of that, you know what good is, and what evil is. And because of their decision, you have a sinful nature. 

So, you aren't born a sinner. You are born with a sinful nature, that can be fought against. 





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#42
Best.Korea
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@YouFound_Lxam
So, God created us, but we suffer by our own doing
You do know how causation works?

God created humans. Humans created evil. Thus, God created evil.

There is simply no way to break the causation chain of responsibility, as your all knowing God knew in advance which humans will go to Hell for eternity. He still created them, therefore doomed them to eternity of pointless suffering.
#43
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@Best.Korea
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Tradesecret wrote @ Best.Korea:  Stephen and Brother have both condemned people and their position on this site.

Lets see it then.  In context. 


Tradesecret wrote @ Best.Korea: Stephen has on many occasions effectively damned Muslims and many Christians. #34


So that cretin Tradsecret keeps saying. But he must have missed the "many occasions" that I have always maintained that Muslims are the biggest victims of their own vile Islamic ideology spread by the words in the Quran.   Most recently Here> #47 Here>  #76 

While also the Reverend Tradesecret stays quiet concerning anti Christian Quranic verses such as this: 
 Quran 51 - You, who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies."
Quran8:12 - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve/ Christians and Jews. There fore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".

I actually state that I would choose Christianity  over Islam any day. Here>>#113

 The Reverend Tradesecret on the other hand ,is terrified of defending his faith in the face of the enemy of his own faith.

Tradesecret wrote @ Best.Korea: Stephen has damned many Christians

Lets see where I have done that, and in context, please.



#44
Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
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@Stephen


Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE OF THE BIBLE FOOL MISS TRADESECRET:  "Stephen and Brother have both condemned people and their position on this site."

WRONG!  It is not me that condemned the pseudo-christian fools like Miss Tradesecret, it is my serial killer Jesus the Christ as God that condemned the membership of this Religion Forum when I have brought forth specific passages inspired by Him!  Miss Tradesecret doesn't understand the difference in her child-like rhetoric!


YOUR QUOTE OF THE BIBLE FOOL MISS TRADESECRET:  "The Reverend Tradesecret on the other hand ,is terrified of defending his faith in the face of the enemy of his own faith."  

Miss Tradesecret in not being able to DEFEND Christianity is part of her true modus operandi over the years, case in point, look how I easily made her the continued #1 Bible Stupid Fool of this Religion Forum in these links alone in this thread shown below:

Stephen, seriously, just how Bible Stupid is Miss Tradesecret going to allow herself to be in front of the membership of this Religion Forum?  The two links above she should have known in the basics of a Sunday School setting for kids!  LOL!


I am praying to Jesus nightly for Him to inform Miss Tradesecret to give this forum a break from her Bible Stupidity, therefore giving this forum a chance to grow religiously, and not be embarrassed all the time about her BLATANT BIBLE INEPTNESS!!!

.
#45
Stephen
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
I am praying to Jesus nightly for Him to inform Miss Tradesecret to give this forum a break from her Bible Stupidity

And I hope he continues to keep revealing his ignorance, Brother D.  😂
#46
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@Stephen
@YouFound_Lxam


.
YouFound_Lxam,

YOUR DUMBFOUNDED QUOTE OF GOING DIRECTLY AGAINST THE BIBLE AGAIN!:  "People who use Christianity to justify the killing of any person for any reason is not representing Christianity correctly in the slightest."

Your quote above is WRONG again as usual!!!   Listen, it is obvious that you want to be as Bible Dumbfounded as Miss Tradesecret in your unbiblical statements of late!  Why? Do you also like to be made the Bible Stupid Fool like Miss Tradesecret obviously does?  Yes?

TRUE Christians like myself that actually READ their Bibles, will see that our Jesus says that we are to MURDER certain factions of His creation, as explicitly shown in the following inspired passages by Him, understood Bible Fool?

1. Murder People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12) 
2. Murder Witches (Exodus 22:18) 
3. Murder Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13) 
4. Murder Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27) 
5. Murder offspring that that attacks their mother or father (Exodus 21:15) 
6. Murder offspring that curse their parents (Leviticus 20:9) 
7. Murder a person if they have sex with an animal (Exodus 22:19) 
8. Murder Nonbelievers of Jesus as God (2 Chronicles 15:12-13) 
9. Murder False Prophets (Deuteronomy 18:20)

Therefore, save yourself any further embarrassment upon this Religion Forum and keep your "clap trap" ungodly stupid statements to yourself if you are not going to follow Jesus' inspired words shown above, GET IT?  Maybe?

YOUFOUND_LXAM, ARE YOU GOING TO SHEEPISHLY RUN AWAY FROM THIS POST OF MINE LIKE YOU USUALLY DO IN FRONT OF THE MEMBERSHIP? HUH?  LOL!


NEXT STUPID PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "YOUFOUND_LXAM" THAT DOESN'T KNOW THE BIBLE FROM A WILD GRAPE, WILL BE ...? 

.
#47
Stephen
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
The title of this thread is "reasons I am not a Christian".

I believe that anyone that has had the patience to follow the Reverend Tradsecret's  responses that he has posted to others in particular on the forum would be enough reason to put anyone  off becoming a Christian. I feel so sorry for those students he claims to tutor and teach at universities  and for his congregation of over 300 parishioners in particular.

I mean,  what could they possibly ever  be learning!?

I can only assume that his sermons consist of only " Jesus loves you" and now you can all go home;  for which he may as well issue them all with the customary "Jesus loves you" bumper sticker and save himself,  his students and congregation of 300 a lot of precious time...... and money.  Think of the cash he would save on overheads that he could give to the poor.
 
#48
YouFound_Lxam
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@Best.Korea
You do know how causation works?

God created humans. Humans created evil. Thus, God created evil.

There is simply no way to break the causation chain of responsibility, as your all knowing God knew in advance which humans will go to Hell for eternity. He still created them, therefore doomed them to eternity of pointless suffering.

If I create a watch, and that watch tells time, did I create time?
Well, you might say no, because time has always existed before the watch has. 
And you would be right.

Same goes with evil. Evil is simply the absence of God. 
Evil has always existed, before humans were created. 

You can't create evil. You can tune into evil, by separation from God, but it's not a substance you can create. 
Like the cold.

Cold doesn't exist. It is the absence of light. 

#49
Tradesecret
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@Best.Korea
When did I defend any condemnation of trans people? 
Right a comment ago, and one more comment ago, and one more comment ago.

Did you change your mind? Do you now think that Bible is wrong and that trans shouldnt be condemned or judged?

Common, make up your mind.
So no quote then. You are such a liar.  You have no shame.   Just making stuff up and repeating it doesn't make it true. 

I never justified anyone condemning trans. And I repeat. The Bible never says anything about condemning Trans.

Get a life Best Korea.  You are terrible as a comedian. 
#50
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@Best.Korea
Yes, I understand - an eye for an eye.  It is not about attacking someone who attacks you. It is about fairness in the response against someone who hurts you.
So when Christians and muslims condemn atheists and trans first, it follows that exact revenge is required, making current atheists here justified in their actions.

Is this still too complicated for you?
Christians should not condemn atheists or trans. There is no first here.  I think Atheists condemn themselves for their foolishness. And I just don't understand your point about Trans. Why should a Trans be condemned by Christians in the first place?  Let me repeat it very slowly.  I don't condemn Trans people. Did you get that? Do you want me to repeat it? I don't condemn Trans People. And for that matter, I don't condemn gays or lesbians either.  I am not a judge.

The Bible doesn't condemn these people either.  Oooh - and now I sit back and watch both Brother and Stephen and probably you as well - quote passages from the bible that show that homosexuality is an abomination.   You don't get it, do you?

The issue is not the act of sin.  The issue is when people reject Christ.  Everything else can be forgiven.   And the interesting thing is - even rejecting Christ can be forgiven while you are still alive.  It is when you die, and where your loyalties lie at that point that determine your destiny.  

Lex Talonis is NOT ABOUT revenge.  That's another point you don't understand.  It is about parity. It is about proportionality. It is how our current laws in Canada and USA and even Australia work.  You don't even understand how the Common Law system works. This is the reason Jesus rebuked the Pharisees - since like you, they didn't get it or understand it. 


#51
YouFound_Lxam
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@Tradesecret
The issue is not the act of sin.  The issue is when people reject Christ.  Everything else can be forgiven.   And the interesting thing is - even rejecting Christ can be forgiven while you are still alive.  It is when you die, and where your loyalties lie at that point that determine your destiny.  
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Evil is the absence of God. 
Giving into evil and doing evil things is rejecting God.

Specifically, Christ who died to take that evil from you. 
#52
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@Best.Korea
Yes so called Christians are much like the scribes and Pharisees I believe Jesus was speaking of. 

I believe if you and others knew what true holiness was, there'd be no conflict. 

But because Christianity a man made watered down belief system is at the forefront, many blanket themselves under the title Christian involving in pagan things and Christmas, there's just confusion, wrong examples being set, no wonder many people just abandon the whole thing. Not to mention these people referred to as prosperity preachers.
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#53
Best.Korea
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@YouFound_Lxam
If I create a watch, and that watch tells time, did I create time?
You still dont understand how causation works. The watch didnt create the time.

because time has always existed before the watch has.  And you would be right. Same goes with evil.
Are you saying that evil people existed before God created them? Because you are making no sense.

I understand. It takes lots of logic twisting to justify Bible, because logically it cannot be justified.


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#54
Best.Korea
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@YouFound_Lxam
You can't create evil. You can tune into evil, by separation from God, but it's not a substance you can create. 
You do realize that changing words changes nothing in the argument?

Replacing "creates evil" with "tune into evil", still the same cause: God.

So God creates people. People tune into evil. Therefore, God caused those people to tune into evil.

If you say: "no, he didnt", you would be again just denying the obvious causation, where people who tune into evil are result of God's action of creating them.

If he didnt create them, they wouldnt tune into evil and he wouldnt have to torture them forever.

There is no word which you can use about evil people, without God being the cause of them being evil.

Maybe your God doesnt have omniscience?
#55
YouFound_Lxam
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@Best.Korea
You still dont understand how causation works. The watch didnt create the time.
That's my whole point.

Are you saying that evil people existed before God created them? Because you are making no sense.
Evil people (according to the bible) don't exist. 

According to the Bible, Evil by definition is simply the absence of God. 
Just like the cold is the absence of heat.
Just like darkness is the absence of light. 

Evil is the absence of God. 

So evil never came into existence like you would think of a force.
It is simply the absence of. 

You do realize that changing words changes nothing in the argument?

Replacing "creates evil" with "tune into evil", still the same cause: God.
Evil wasn't created by God. 
It would be illogical to assume that God can create something that he is the absence of.
Evil is the absence of God. Therefore, God could not have created Evil. 
Evil is not a created thing. It is simply the absence of God.

So God creates people. People tune into evil. Therefore, God caused those people to tune into evil.
God never caused anyone to do anything against their own will. 
We as humans have always had free will. 

So, God can't force anyone to do anything.

Also, God did not create Evil. It would be illogical. 

So, God can't force us into something he didn't create. He can only try to convince us to stay away from the absence of him. 

If you say: "no, he didnt", you would be again just denying the obvious causation, where people who tune into evil are result of God's action of creating them.
But God originally created us to live freely with him. We chose to side with the absence of him = Evil

We decided to give into evil which is the separation of God. 

If he didnt create them, they wouldnt tune into evil and he wouldnt have to torture them forever.
Again, you don't understand.

According to the Bible God does not send people to hell.
According to the Bible, God did not create Evil.
According to the Bible, God created us to have relationship with him.

For example:
Let's say you want to have a kid. So, you have a kid.
Then when that kid grows up, he blames you for all his struggles and pain. 
He accuses you of creating the source of all his problems.

That is illogical, because you created the child for a different purpose. For a relationship. 
Now why did you create that kid? I don't know.
Same with God.

There is no word which you can use about evil people, without God being the cause of them being evil.
According to the Bible, there are no Evil people. 
#56
IlDiavolo
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@Mall
Interesting so these people wouldn't be dogmatic is that right?
Dogmatic people obey withouth questioning for the benefit of a few muthafuckas, non-dogmatic people discuss and eventually reach an agreement that favors everyone. So, I don't know if you noted but the golden rule benefits EVERYONE.

These people wouldn't be "Civilized minimally-intelligent" is that right?
Who? The dogmatic people? Well, not necessarily. They can be emotianally unbalanced.

When you say "Everyone" do you mean being an individual making their own individual determination or in agreement altogether on the same accord in an objective sense as a collective determination?
It's a personal decision based on the golden rule. If everyone takes decisions based on this rule, the whole world would be so evolved and peaceful... and without religions.

Seems like that golden rule is objective of a people. But I bet you may still find people that'll say that's dogmatic as they don't believe in it. 
If you feel the golden rule has flaws, we can discuss it, because that's what civilized non-dogmatic people do, discuss so to reach an agreement. But I wouldn't waste my time doing so because this rule has been proven right. If you take any course related to ethics, the golden rule will always be there.
#57
Mall
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@IlDiavolo
Yes it comes down to perspective. You can say this is objectively true while another says it's dogmatic and that vice versa.

Your belief system versus another.
#58
Stephen
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@YouFound_Lxam
1. I don't know why God created us, but to assume that he just created us for the sole purpose of his enjoyment is illogical,


I keep having to remind you, you do not know your scriptures. I am not surprised you don't know why, although the bible makes clear why humans were created.

READ GENESIS 2:5 
 
"there was not a man to till the ground".

A better question would be - as I have been asking since the day I joined this forum and no Christian can answer- is: 

why did god create anything at all in the first place?<<< maybe you can answer that for us? 


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@YouFound_Lxam
Evil people (according to the bible) don't exist. 
So when Jesus called people evil, he lied?
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@YouFound_Lxam
We as humans have always had free will. 
Free will doesnt solve the puzzle either.

Your Bible says that God created a man.

Therefore, even if God gave him free will, any bad deeds resulting from free will would be a result of God's action of giving free will.