A discussion on the trinity - Holy Ghost Father Son

According to the scripture it isn't money that is the root but the love of it that is the root .

So if I understand what you're saying, the Catholic Church made up a false doctrine or something false to worship to get pagans to join in under the guise

Christianity in order to appear compliant with the emperor's law of only permitting Christianity for the sake of money I guess the pagans would pay up.

1 John 5 and 7

I don't believe the text says "there are three things" . At least not in the translation I've read.

I've been asking someone, these three what?

Tradesecret wrote:  “The Trinity - as in the Word Trinity - is not mentioned in the Bible. So what?”

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10392/posts/423562

Mr.BrotherD.Thomas wrote:  Okay, so what if the word "Trinity" is not mentioned within the Bible, where in fact the "concept of the Trinity Doctrine" is mentioned within the Bible as implied in Matthew’s Jesus inspired passage herewith: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 28:19) [...........................]

Barring the word “Trinity,” the Trinity Doctrine is mentioned specifically within the scriptures .

Tradesecret wrote:  “The Trinity was around before the Roman Catholic Churches.”

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10392/posts/423562

Mr.BrotherD.Thomas wrote: WRONG AS USUAL!  LOL!  Roman Catholicism traces its history to Jesus during the period of Roman occupation in the early 30’s CE!  This was a period of years after Jesus' life and death in 34 CE when His followers spread out across the world to form a “universal church" with the bishop of Rome holding primacy (Catholicism).”

Therefore, the Trinity Doctrine of Christianity ONLY came about at the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, approximately 300 years subsequent to Catholic Churches came into being where Miss Tradesecret LIED in saying in her quote above that the Triune Doctrine was around before the Roman Catholic Churches! NOT!  LOL!

Mall, wrote @ Brother D. Thomas:  So I'll ask this time. Three individual what? [................................]Just answer that with one word. Very simple

Yes the son prayed to the father.

[A]  What was your point on mentioning that?

And who was "the father" that Jesus was praying to?

I'll answer with Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear O Israel , The LORD our God, the LORD is one

 So are you then  telling me that "the father"  is god?  Yes or No ?

I could tell you that but I 'll let 1 Corinthians 8:6 tell you, there is but ONE GOD the father.

Yes the son prayed to the father.

[A]  What was your point on mentioning that?

And who was "the father" that Jesus was praying to?

I'll answer with Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear O Israel , The LORD our God, the LORD is one

 So are you then  telling me that "the father"  is god?  Yes or No ?

I could tell you that but I 'll let 1 Corinthians 8:6 tell you, there is but ONE GOD the father.

So your answer is then - God.

And Christians are of the belief that Jesus is god. Hence Jesus was praying in the garden to himself.  That was my point on mentioning that. See your question at [A]  above.

Was the son praying to himself or the Father?

It appears you're guessing. If you don't know what the three are, just say that.

No you said "entities?"

Was that a guess or do you know?

Mall, wrote @ Brother D. Thomas:  So I'll ask this time. Three individual what? [................................]Just answer that with one word. Very simple #36

Entities?#40

The bible says Jesus prayed to the  " Father".

You say the "father" is god;

Christians believe Jesus to be god.

[A]    Either Jesus is praying to god. 

OR

[B]  Jesus was praying to himself.

Which is it? 

Either way, he didn't get an answer nor did he get " relieved of his burden" in his terrifying hour of need, did he?  Some serious loss of faith from the son of god messiah and saviour, if you ask me.  So much for the "mustard seed" size faith.

Just my opinion of course.

I already gave you scripture that gives you the answers. 

Mr.BrotherDThomas  wrote @Mall: 

  THE TRINITY DOCTRINE OF JESUS THE CHRIST IN A SIMPLE FORM OF UNDERSTANDING:

When Jesus was praying to Himself, a TRUE Christian like myself accepts that the Trinity Doctrine of Jesus is that He is the Father as God, the Son as  God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Barring that these three divine persons are distinct from one another: the Father is not the Son, the Father is not the Holy Spirit, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit.  However, there is exactly one God (1 Timothy 2:5).  Therefore, very simply put,  Christ is His own Father and His own Son. The Holy Ghost is neither Father nor Son, but both in spirit. The Son was begotten by the Father, but existed before He was begotten. Christ is just as old as his Father, and the Father is just as young as his Son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but He is of the same age as the Father and Son!  To further the Godly Triune premise, the Father is Almighty, the Son is Almighty, and the Holy Ghost is Almighty, but yet there are not three Almighty's but one Almighty. Barring that it is plainly seen that we have three Almighty's, and at the same time, one Almighty! The Triune creed further informs us that the three persons in the Trinity are co-eternal together and coequal. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Ghost is eternal, and yet there are not three eternally, but one eternal. The plain English is, that the three persons in the Trinity are three eternally, and individually considered, and yet they are not three eternally, but one eternal! 

What the hell is Mall's problem in understanding the Trinity Doctrine as I have personally shown in my post #48 above?!  He is embarrassing himself in front of the membership for asking a "plethora" of questions over and over and over and over AGAIN when all he has to do is read my godly definition of the Trinity!   

Stephen  wrote:

"I wonder what his reply is to Jesus calling out to himself on the cross, "why have you forsaken me dad, me, all three of us"?"

Mr.BrotherDThomas wrote: YES, any TRUE Christian should understand your statement above with ease!  Mall, on the other hand, seemingly is reading too much "hearsay" that he has ungodly learned into the Trinity Doctrine, where the simple approach as I have shown in my post #48 is to be followed!  DUH!

For instance, look at the Vedic god system.  There are thousands of gods in their system.  But the main three are Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva a triune God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma

How about the Greek mythology?  Dionysus was a God of wine (Jesus turned water into wine), he was born of an earthly mother and a divine father (Zeus).  He was also followed by bands of people and later lamented at his death.

How about the Egyptian concept of Gods?  Did you know their idea of a spirit of a man (ba) is depicted as a bird?  Don't we see many depictions of God the Holy Ghost as a bird due to the vision of John the Baptist?

Point is, there are a lot of correlations you can make with the biblical Jesus with other Pagan deities of the time and area and to tell a pagan that the biblical God is just like their own would not be a stretch when you can drum up an idea like the trinity.

Yet the concept of the Trinity is inherent from the Creation through to the last page of the NT.    The early Christians did argue over the concept. They needed to grapple with the truth that there is ONE GOD as the Deuteronomy passage articulates and then they needed to grapple with the person Jesus.  It also became clear during these discussions that the Holy Spirit was not the Father nor was he the Son.  Some people suggest he was just a power. Not a personality. Although Jesus made it clear that the Holy Spirit was a person and had a personality. You can't grieve a power. You can't lie to a power. Yes, both of these terms could just be anthropomorphisms.  And yet the Church determined otherwise. 

For one, which "church" decided this?  Have you read the early church fathers?  Keep in mind also that the victor of war gets to write the history.  The catholic has always tried to say that their church was the first and Peter the first pope.  They tried (in vain) to wipe out the history of a true church throughout history.  There a snippets here and there where "Oneness" people thrived before the Catholics tried to do away with them.  In fact, the church at Rome was Oneness until about 200 A.D.  You will find a little paper trail from one popular catholic father to another before Constantine that is quite a tangled web.  Pretty interesting actually.

I do believe the reference of the Holy Ghost is God's use of power.  See it with every scripture that it is used, such as the overshadowing of Mary.  She was found to be child of the Holy Ghost.  This would mean that God the Father would NOT be the father in the simplest sense.  But if we see the spirit of God working in situations, then it's easy to understand John chapter 14 and how Mary would be found child by the power of God.

The Trinity was around before the Roman Catholic Churches. It was not their invention. 

True again.  The concept of a Trinity was around before the church ever began, but later integrated into the dogma, per my post above with Mall and you.

Also, for reference, when I mention the Catholic church, I am not referring to the official Catholic church as I understand it was not truly formed for hundreds of years after Christ, but the Catholic church did come this ground work, so I use it as a way to delineate the true church and the false church.