OTI - Google Sheets. If anyone has a disagreement, then you can state it if you want too.
Disagreement day
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45
I dont disagree with free market capitalism, however, if a rapist makes a woman pregnant, then he cannot be sentenced to death since his child needs a father in life.
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@Best.Korea
A father can still be there without the rapist progenitor.
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@Best.Korea
That argument can be used to outlaw any prison sentences longer than 18 years old.
But it is better that a child is raised by a single mother than raised by 2 parents if one is a r**ist. A father like that would be a terrible role model for their kid, especially since a step dad would be better.
A ra**st as a male role model is going to fuck a kid up.
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@TheUnderdog
A ra**st as a male role model is going to fuck a kid up.
But he created life, so it seems unfair to kill him for that.
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@Best.Korea
But he created life, so it seems unfair to kill him for that.
He's being killed for casing huge amounts of harm to the woman that he r***d, not because he reproduced. Consensual sex doesn't get you prosecuted, r*** should. If he r***d her and she didn't get pregnant, then he should still face death.
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@TheUnderdog
He's being killed for casing huge amounts of harm to the woman that he r***d
He only caused her some harm, but he produced more life as a result, so I would say he shouldnt get death penalty, because he didnt destroy life but he created it.
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@Best.Korea
He only caused her some harm
The R word produces a lot of harm to women.
but he produced more life as a result, so I would say he shouldnt get death penalty, because he didnt destroy life but he created it.
That's not a good enough reason. People should not be forced to create kids (if a kid's life starts at conception).
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@Best.Korea
I'm going to go ahead and not justify the R word even if a kid gets created from it.
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@TheUnderdog
The R word produces a lot of harm to women
It produces some harm, but most of the rape victims still want to live and still enjoy life.
That's not a good enough reason. People should not be forced to create kids
Well, if you have a choice between
1. Letting woman get raped and saving a kid's life
Or
2. Saving woman from rape and letting a kid die,
We cant really say that 1 should be punished with death penalty, and rapist chose option 1, to create more life and now his kid gets to enjoy life.
I cant really see how a death penalty is justified in that case.
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@Best.Korea
It produces some harm, but most of the rape victims still want to live and still enjoy life.
If I get a knife and cut off all the fingers on your left hand, you still would want to enjoy life. It doesn't mean it's okay to cut someone's fingers off.
1. Letting woman get raped and saving a kid's lifeOr2. Saving woman from rape and letting a kid die,
I would pick #1; but that's not what's being compared as there is a huge difference between creating life and saving life. Creating a life is neutral; having kids is optional; getting a vasectomy is not the same as murdering a kid that doesn't exist yet because they weren't yet conceived. Saving a life is good.
Not having kids is not the same as murdering kids, and not having kids is much better than committing r***. Kids that don't even exist yet don't have rights.
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@TheUnderdog
there is a huge difference between creating life and saving life.
No, I dont think there is any significant difference.
You create life = life exists
You save life = life exists
Now lets compare that to what you are saying.
1. Not saving life = life doesnt exist
2. Killing life = life doesnt exist
3. Not creating life = life doesnt exist
All 3 are bad for life, but 3 destroys the greatest amount of life time since it destroys life at the start.
So I think if a rapist creates life, then he doesnt deserve death penalty since he contributed to life and thanks to him one person will get to live life and enjoy life, where otherwise that person would be dead.
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@Best.Korea
there is a huge difference between creating life and saving life.No, I dont think there is any significant difference.
If that was true, then it would be legal for parents to murder their 8 year old son (they merely destroyed what they created). You destroy your own artwork; it's legal. You destroy your own photo; it's legal. You destroy your own child (post birth to avoid abortion tangent); it's murder.
It should be illegal to murder your 8 year old child.
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@TheUnderdog
If that was true, then it would be legal for parents to murder their 8 year old son
No, as everyone has a duty to create life, so those who dont procreate should be considered similar to murderers.
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@Best.Korea
so those who dont procreate should be considered similar to murderers.
You are not attracted to women; you aren't even attracted to adults. I'm not knocking you for that since you don't act on it, but you will never reproduce.
Not wanting to reproduce is not something that should be punishable by death. Otherwise, we would have to execute you.
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@TheUnderdog
Not wanting to reproduce is not something that should be punishable by death.
I am not saying that there should be a death penalty for it, but maybe lots of taxes and change laws so that there is prison time for people who refused to reproduce by age 35, to help motivate people to reproduce. If they change their mind and decide to reproduce, then they should be released from prison.
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@Best.Korea
So you believe people that choose to not have kids should go to jail but people that commit r*** shouldn't?
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@TheUnderdog
So you believe people that choose to not have kids should go to jail but people that commit r*** shouldn't?
People who choose not to have kids are literally destroying society.
Society cannot survive if people dont have kids.
When birth rates decline, the ratio of working population and non-working population decreases, which causes a chain reaction where working population consistently declines and society eventually collapses in poverty.
People who commit rape should go to prison, but if they made their victim pregnant, then maybe marriage is a better option so they can raise the kid together.
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@Best.Korea
People who choose not to have kids are literally destroying society.Society cannot survive if people dont have kids.
If nobody had kids, then you would be correct. But since about 95% of the US population wants to have kids, a few people can refuse to reproduce.
then maybe marriage is a better option so they can raise the kid together.
That's not fair to the woman.
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@TheUnderdog
But since about 95% of the US population wants to have kids, a few people can refuse to reproduce.
No, they cant, because then the birth rates would decline and they would also inspire more people not to have kids.
That's not fair to the woman.
True, but it is fair towards society, as the birth rates are getting lower under current system.
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@Best.Korea
as the birth rates are getting lower under current system.
Africa (poor people that don't spend too much time on the internet) has a very high birth rate. Europe and America (rich people that do spend time on the internet) has a very low birth rate.
The internet usage is relevant because the internet is saying things like, "The world is overpopulated" and this causes a lot of people to refuse to have kids.
If the internet says, "The world is underpopulated" and leans in on that message for a while, then more internet connected westerners would have more kids. It would have little effect on Africans with few people connected to the internet.
But if a man is a r**ist, then if they have a kid and are raising that kid, then the kid has a pretty high chance of following in the man's footsteps and committing r***.
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@TheUnderdog
Europe and America (rich people that do spend time on the internet) has a very low birth rate.
Yeah, I think internet and porn also has effect.
But if a man is a r**ist, then if they have a kid and are raising that kid, then the kid has a pretty high chance of following in the man's footsteps and committing r***.
If not punishing rape increases birth rates, then its different.
Thats why I think if rapist causes pregnancy, then he shouldnt be punished as much because pregnancy is beneficial for society.
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@Best.Korea
Yeah, I think internet and porn also has effect.
Maybe. Although porn reduces the r*** rate and it is liberty, so I think it's good.
If not punishing rape increases birth rates, then its different.
Let birth rates go up on their own by women who choose to become pregnant in the first place.
Thats why I think if rapist causes pregnancy, then he shouldnt be punished as much because pregnancy is beneficial for society.
It depends on the pregnancy. Many pregnencies are beneficial for society, but people should not be forced to become pregnant in the first place.
Like (assuming you have XY chromosomes), you wouldn't like it if a woman r***d you. Assuming you have XX chromosomes, you wouldn't like it if a man r***d you.
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@TheUnderdog
Let birth rates go up on their own
They wont tho, as they have been consistently falling for past decades and even when government pays people to have kids, it doesnt work. In South Korea, you get bunch of money from government if you have kids, but people dont want it because kids take away lots of freedom from individual since raising kids is like having extra job that lasts for whole day and is also very expensive.
It depends on the pregnancy. Many pregnencies are beneficial for society, but people should not be forced to become pregnant in the first place.
There are countries where women are forced into marriages and those countries usually have high birth rates, like Afghanistan.
Freedom of individual is simply less important than society's survival, since if society collapses, then you lose individual freedom regardless.
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@Best.Korea
They wont tho, as they have been consistently falling for past decades and even when government pays people to have kids
U.S. Fertility Rate 1950-2024 | MacroTrends states that they used to be falling, but not anymore (once a lot of people believed that the US fertility rate was getting uncontrollably low).
There are countries where women are forced into marriages and those countries usually have high birth rates, like Afghanistan.
And Afghanistan is a shithole; not a good example to be copied. People should not be forced to marry; it should be an option.
Freedom of individual is simply less important than society's survival, since if society collapses, then you lose individual freedom regardless.
But the premise is false because people want to have kids often because people have a high importence on their genes.
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@TheUnderdog
U.S. Fertility Rate 1950-2024 | MacroTrends states that they used to be falling, but not anymore (once a lot of people believed that the US fertility rate was getting uncontrollably low).
1.78 is below replacement levels.
Replacement levels are 2.1 or more, because one woman needs to have more than 2 children for society's population to be maintained.
More than 2 because not all children survive and not all who survive are fertile or willing to have kids.
And Afghanistan is a shithole; not a good example to be copied. People should not be forced to marry; it should be an option.
Afghanistan is going to survive tho, and due to high reproduction rates, it is countries like that which are going to take over eventually.
China was a shithole too worse than Afghanistan, but thanks to lots of population it became a superpower.
But the premise is false because people want to have kids often because people have a high importence on their genes.
Birth rates disagree.
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@Best.Korea
1.78 is below replacement levels.
It's low, but I believe it will probably go up at some point from people willingly having kids; it ceased to fall and people like Elon Musk are telling people to have more kids. Also, since the world population is increasing, it's not like humanity is doomed. America can just accept more immigrants to create more population growth (and unlike children, adult immigrants don't need to be put in public schools for 15 years or so).
China was a shithole too worse than Afghanistan, but thanks to lots of population it became a superpower.
China had a 1 child policy.
Now, you are correct that more people -> more GDP. But it is more moral to just have increased immigration that to r*** women to produce babies.
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@TheUnderdog
It's low, but I believe it will probably go up at some point from people willingly having kids; it ceased to fall
1.78 is far below replacement levels, and any country which embraced so much freedom has never seen an increase in birth rates.
Population of USA is about 340 million with 170 million women.
1.78 per woman, x 170 million women does not equal 340 million, but much less.
Also, people who willingly have kids, their kids wont have 100% reproduction rate, as parents being willing to reproduce has nothing to do with their kids being willing to, otherwise there would never even be fall in birth rates.
Also, since the world population is increasing, it's not like humanity is doomed.
World population is increasing for 2 reasons:
1. Because of countries that dont have freedom
2. Because people live longer (more of old people).
None of these is good for countries that have freedom.
Countries that dont have freedom will, by mere reproduction, replace those who have freedom.
Having more old people is also bad for society because old people cant reproduce and just drain resources.
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@Best.Korea
1.78 is far below replacement levels, and any country which embraced so much freedom has never seen an increase in birth rates.
But I belive it will eventually go up once people realize that underpopulation is a problem.
Population of USA is about 340 million with 170 million women.
The US population is growing.
Having more old people is also bad for society because old people cant reproduce and just drain resources.
That's why you encourage young people to move here and Americanize.
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@TheUnderdog
China had a 1 child policy.
Yes, but it also had high birth rates which increased its population greatly.
USA, China, Russia... all have lots of population.
Its just that its about to change, because birth rates are no longer at the level which existed before and created their big populations, but now the birth rates are very low and unless that changes, their populations will slowly start to age and decline, and countries with high birth rates will overtake them both military and economically.
Now, you are correct that more people -> more GDP. But it is more moral to just have increased immigration that to r*** women to produce babies.
Well, you can import population from countries that dont have freedom, but then you are faced with the problem of your population being replaced by people who maybe dont share your values, as they were literally raised in dictatorships.
Plus, you need to import a lot, about 50 million to make up for current 170 million women's lack of reproduction, and you need to do so every 40 years.