F20M TH3 R1V3R T0 TH3 S3A

Author: 3RU7AL
Ethics
intp
Anarchy
GNOSTIC
informationwar

Posts

Total: 63
#31
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,553
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
but if they were perfect and were perfectly enforced then no one would have a legitimate cause to make war on the government or other citizens.
People disagree on abortion, guns.  People even disagree on religious liberty (with Muslim countries being against it).  You are going to need something similar to the 10th amendment to get the Arab world to be on board (just like how the states got on board to unite in one country in the US).  The 1st amendment would prevent the global government from imposing a religion.  Anyone whom the Muslim countries oppress based on religion can move outside of the Arab world.

There is no need now, and they would still find plenty of excuses for huge bureaucratic waste that doesn't involve massive conventional warfare, just as they do right now.
Probably not $1.6 trillion worth spent on murder (current global military spending).  Maybe India gets some more toilets so they are less of a shithole.  Maybe kids get better education in better funded schools (where they become fluent in English) and they get out of poverty and America benefits because our language spreads around the world.

Neither are perfect democracies, Israel is much more democratic, and there is nothing in the concept of democracy that prevents genocide.
Palestine would either have elections as free as Sweeden, or anyone objecting to how Palestine is run can move to Sweeden for democracy and elections.  People use the word, "democracy" loosely.  But every country should have regular elections.

Just like the Taliban are playing dress up and dotting their Ts Hamas could be all formal about it and then start rounding up all dissenters for the gas chambers.

If Palestine annexed Israel, then they would annex a population half Jewish.  You can't genocide half the population.  There is strength in numbers.
#32
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,131
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
You can't genocide half the population.  There is strength in numbers.
Why, would they fight back?

Oh wait, that's what they have been doing since 1948; that's what the misinformed are calling occupation, apartheid, and genocide.

#33
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,553
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Oh wait, that's what they have been doing since 1948; that's what the misinformed are calling occupation, apartheid, and genocide.
I don't call it genocide, but it's just not America's problem, so cheer for Israel on the sidelines if you want; but I believe in an America first policy for Ukraine and Israel.
#34
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 11
0
0
1
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
0
0
1
-->
@3RU7AL
The Middle East has never seen peace, not for a long time. It has usually lapsed into war or into full-blown ethnostate. A good example of this is the ruling family of sharifs dominating mid-east markets for centuries. I’d say your story emits the rampant cruelty that happens within those “legacy tenants”. There's a good chance those legacy tenants are typically vehemently opposed to different lifestyles simply because they infringe upon their religious belief, which is often rooted in fanaticism and dogmatism.
#35
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,131
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
so cheer for Israel on the sidelines if you want
I am. I hope they annex the west bank and Gaza and end this madness.

No vote for anyone connected to Hamas or their children. Pay Muslim countries $10,000 / head to take them in if they want to leave.

War ends when there is victory or despair.


I believe in an America first policy for Ukraine and Israel.
I believe in not stealing for a military industrial complex.
#36
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,553
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
 Pay Muslim countries $10,000 / head to take them in if they want to leave.
8 million arabs; that's $80 billion (about 14% of Israeli GDP).

I believe in not stealing for a military industrial complex.
How do you plan on achieving that?
#37
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,131
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
 Pay Muslim countries $10,000 / head to take them in if they want to leave.
8 million arabs; that's $80 billion (about 14% of Israeli GDP).
You're saying all 8 million are connected to Hamas? Kinda proves Israel right if true.

14% GDP is a small price to pay in order to not have to worry about rockets and rape gangs.

Also there are only 2 million in Gaza and 3 in West Bank so I don't know where you are getting "8 million"


I believe in not stealing for a military industrial complex.
How do you plan on achieving that?
Vote for & donate to the most liberal candidate who can win, debate people, wait for the aliens to ask me what needs to change. What can one man do?

#38
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,553
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
You're saying all 8 million are connected to Hamas? Kinda proves Israel right if true.
I'm saying in the South Levant, there are 8 million Muslims.  But those that want to do harm to the Jews aren't going to leave for any sum of money; their goal is to be a super majority in the area which then leads to a genocide of Jewish people.

14% GDP is a small price to pay in order to not have to worry about rockets and rape gangs.
Can't they just expieriment on their rapists for science?  That seems to be a better punishment than deportation.

Vote for & donate to the most liberal candidate who can win, debate people, wait for the aliens to ask me what needs to change. What can one man do?
How would donating to any politician help Israel without stealing.  If Israel gets helped, then it would be through American taxes (which you argue is theft).  One man without political power can do pretty much nothing.
#39
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,131
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
You're saying all 8 million are connected to Hamas? Kinda proves Israel right if true.
I'm saying in the South Levant, there are 8 million Muslims.
The citizens of Israel aren't trying to kill all the Jews....


But those that want to do harm to the Jews aren't going to leave for any sum of money
The money isn't for them, it's for the country that adopts them.

That way they get to live and Israel gets to stop being bombed (because if rockets come out of say Eygpt that's an act of war and then Israel can invoke mutual defense pacts and/or just blow up Cairo).


their goal is to be a super majority in the area which then leads to a genocide of Jewish people.
Yes, but if they are forced into a country like Eygpt, the Eygptian government won't let them launch rockets or invasion from Eygptian soil that is internationally recognized as an act of war.

For some reason a lot of countries have decided that Gaza can commit acts of war 40 times in a row and yet counter attacks are unjustified, that's the nonsense which needs to stop.


14% GDP is a small price to pay in order to not have to worry about rockets and rape gangs.
Can't they just expieriment on their rapists for science?  That seems to be a better punishment than deportation.
If they can prove certain people were the murderers and rapist sure punish them, but the real problem is the million+ people who love Hamas, vote for Hamas, hide Hamas, and most importantly fail to ensure the land they call home doesn't commit acts of war on other countries.


Vote for & donate to the most liberal candidate who can win, debate people, wait for the aliens to ask me what needs to change. What can one man do?
How would donating to any politician help Israel without stealing.
That is not the question you asked.
#40
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,553
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
The citizens of Israel aren't trying to kill all the Jews....
I saw this poll that said like 3/4 of Israeli Arabs don't want Israel to be a state.

The money isn't for them, it's for the country that adopts them.
I'm not sure it would be adoption as much as it would be a customer increase.  It's like saying if Burget king has 1000 customers, then they've adopted 1000 people.  But Egypt wants the Gazans in Gaza to try and stake a claim to Gaza for Muslims.  It's like telling Waloon to accept all the French people from Bruseels; Waloon wants the French people in Brussels to stake their claim to the land.

Muslims want more land for Muslims; Jews want more land for Jews.

For some reason a lot of countries have decided that Gaza can commit acts of war 40 times in a row and yet counter attacks are unjustified, that's the nonsense which needs to stop.
40 times seems like an exagerration.  I don't have a dog in this fight; it just seems unrealistic that this is true.

 but the real problem is the million+ people who love Hamas, vote for Hamas, hide Hamas, and most importantly fail to ensure the land they call home doesn't commit acts of war on other countries.
Hamas hasn't had elections since 2006.  It's like getting angry at Americans in 2024 for voting for George Bush.

That is not the question you asked.
The question I asked was:

I believe in not stealing for a military industrial complex.
How do you plan on achieving that?

So you want there to be some diplomatic solution?
#41
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,131
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
The citizens of Israel aren't trying to kill all the Jews....
I saw this poll that said like 3/4 of Israeli Arabs don't want Israel to be a state.
They can work hard labor if they want to start killing Jews willy nilly, on a case by case basis of course.
#42
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,553
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
The desire to kill Jews I think should be treated differently than the action of killing Jews.

The first is what Nazis do; and we shouldn't sentence Ye West to hard labor for his horrible opinions.  The ladder should be punishable with experimentation for the rest of their lives or death.  Hard labor leads to murderers running off.
Topic's author
#43
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,939
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
There's a good chance those legacy tenants are typically vehemently opposed to different lifestyles
ok, i guess that means we should slaughter them all
#44
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 11
0
0
1
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
0
0
1
-->
@3RU7AL
No one is asking to turn a blind eye to atrocities, but legacy tenants aren't as pure as the average westerner generally thinks. When did you turn to islam? Your catchy slogan is only reserved for the kafir harbi in which every muslim is obligated to wage war against. Not a single scholar believes in the innocence of israeli citizens, and when you mix two fanatical theocracy together, you are bound to have a war where leaders care little about civilian casualties.
Topic's author
#45
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,939
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
when you mix two fanatical theocracy together
zionists claim their project is purely secular
Topic's author
#46
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,939
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
but legacy tenants aren't as pure as the average westerner generally thinks
if you asked the "average westerner" what they think of "the palestinians" any time between 1948 and october 6th 2023

90% would say they are teh evilz

nobody thinks they're "pure"

but for some weird reason the international community believes it's a war crime to cut power and water and block humanitarian aid to civilians
#47
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,194
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
Interview discussing Hamas’ complex goals in this conflict:


#48
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,131
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@cristo71
I saw that, a classic; but their complex motives can't be compressed to only a few minutes. He didn't even get into what order or how painfully.
#49
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 11
0
0
1
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
0
0
1
-->
@3RU7AL
zionists claim their project is purely secular
Is that even true? Do they directly claim that they're secular, or is that largely a muslim misunderstanding? I don't put much faith in muslim clerics, as this line is usually spoken by them as a typical cudgel against secular ideas. Yes, they'll use every thing, even zionists, against them. It's part of the usualy muslim scholarship to shoehorn secular philosophy without really understanding any of it. You should read some perspectives on ecocide, the ulamas deliberately use NYTimes articles in their introductions, and they largely wrote 500 pages of treatise on them. There's a reason muslims generally respond to things, but not create them.

if you asked the "average westerner" what they think of "the palestinians" any time between 1948 and october 6th 2023

90% would say they are teh evilz

nobody thinks they're "pure"
They are teh evilz lol. Under classical scholarship, israelis are classified as harbi, and all and every muslim is required to wage war against israelis. In war, israeli women and children are exempted until of course one israeli decides to hurl an insult against islam publicly. If she doesn't apologize, she's branded as a kafir harbi thug even if she's a mother. No "Liberal" muslim scholar will ever turn public opinion against the unanimously monolith entity of ulamas. The ulamas will herd large quantity of muslims, and in turn, they'll take and believe in these cruel ideas until hell freezes over.

but for some weird reason the international community believes it's a war crime to cut power and water and block humanitarian aid to civilians
The international community is concerned with apolitical transference of humanitarian resources, so those don't necessarily count when we're discussing the real true beliefs of either the jews or muslims. Sure, perhaps you could prosecute a few of those IDF-Netanyahu loyalists, but I do not want to hear generalizations like the international community. Secular movements within palestine have always existed, and they're either hunted down by crazy muslims or accidentally killed by a far right losers in Netanyahu's payroll.

Remember the gay Hamas commander that disappear conveniently after he's beiing outed?
Topic's author
#50
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,939
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@MarkWebberFan2
The international community is concerned with apolitical transference of humanitarian resources, so those don't necessarily count when we're discussing the real true beliefs of either the jews or muslims.
it doesn't matter what they believe

they are still humans
#51
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,131
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@3RU7AL
it doesn't matter what they believe

they are still humans
So are nazis, sometimes humans need to be bombed.

#52
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,487
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
The evolution of human cultures is a messy, ongoing process, with many going extinct. 

It's a better use of the brain to praise the surviving cultures than to waste time mourning over the presently extinct, or soon to be extinct ones.
None of the dead Nazis, Romans, Confederates, or baby killing Aztecs will ever appreciate the tears.
Topic's author
#53
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,939
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
So are nazis, sometimes humans need to be bombed.
we only bombed twenty percent of nazi germany
Topic's author
#54
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,939
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
None of the dead Nazis, Romans, Confederates, or baby killing Aztecs will ever appreciate the tears.
we're not worried about the dead ones

we're worried about the rest of us currently alive ones
#55
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,487
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Sadly, evolution doesn't care about feelings.
Topic's author
#56
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,939
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Sadly, evolution doesn't care about feelings.

great argument, kill everyone
#57
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 23,487
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Evolution will.

Entropy must be satiated. It's a physical law. You can have your own ideas about which culture is the best, but evolution is the final judge.
Topic's author
#58
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,939
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
i have a feeling that you probably want to stay alive and pursue comfort and avoid suffering

7 days later

#59
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 11
0
0
1
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
0
0
1
For those disbelievers wanting to adapt and survive, there is a philosophical question relevant to the palestinian discourse that any of you can answer:

Is the Quran uncreated or created?

Careful there, disbelievers. Any theological answer that somewhat resembles like an attack on the sanctity of Islam will perhaps earn you a ticket to Islamic "Rehab". According to muslims, when rebellious "blasphemous" elements stir within society, they are subjected to Sharia court discussions. Perhaps you can attend a sharia court and swindle your way out of it by performing Tawbah and acknowledge the sin publicly (lol), or perhaps the court itself will decide your fate. Who rules the court? Muslims. Who rules the truth and vivacity of theological claims within Islam? Also Muslims. And, who rules whether Prophet Muhammad was a pedophile? Also Muslims.

Good luck living in a system where only Muslim Lives Matter. My advice: throw the moderates out of western countries, because they're all behind the protests, and strengthen the already-existing splintered "Heretic-islamic" sects, like the Ahmadiyya or the small group of Female imamates in France.


#60
MarkWebberFan2
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 11
0
0
1
MarkWebberFan2's avatar
MarkWebberFan2
0
0
1
-->
@3RU7AL
They are humans, albeit with intent to kill every israeli kafir harbi. Perhaps they have a feverish belief to prove to everyone that their prophet was a perfect manifestation of mercy, even if they had a good record of gunning down random israeli citizens. The intent to reduce civilian casualties should not downplay the clear, obvious threat that islam poses to the west. For example, all of Hamas battalions are revered as heroes in the muslim world, even if the battalion consists of only rapists and pedophiles (though, only if they prey on kafir harbi children; they'd still get punished and disowned if they start molesting muslim kids though).