Moving More Quickly on Moderation

Author: 1harderthanyouthink

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#91
Barney
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My two cents on the original thread topic...

There needs to be multiple types and levels of moderators.

Forum Moderators 
Deleting spam from the forums could be trusted to many, but reorganizing the forums or locking threads is a top level decision low level mods should lack powers to accidentally enact.

Debate Moderators
Again deleting outright spam is easy to trust. Deleting (or hiding the listing) of offensive debates, would require a greater level of care. We want love spell salesmen banned in short order (call it probation until reviewed by a top level admin?). Fake debates created by peoples alts to give them free wins, at s certain point become obvious, but not something to risk mistakes with. Finially offensive topics should be maximum care, likely multiple admins signing off on the removal (I'd say zero intellectual validity, like neo nazis saying the holocaust must be resumed... if Ren is smarter than Stimpy on the other hand, is without importance, but could serve as a valid exchange of ideas).

Vote Moderators
Sensitive topic to which I might start a thread for the discussion, but in brief... I know to some a series of random symbols is the gold standard of judging debate, but to anyone with intellectual integrity it's an insult to the debaters as well as any judgement which shows evidence of even knowing the debate topic. Then getting harder, there's obvious vote trades (on DDO there was even a guy offering blowjobs for favorable votes), which call for care in handling beyond a quick click of delete. A few levels up there's votes which are low quality, but not intentionally violating the rules; for these I'd say comity review with veto powers (blocking the removal)... of course the primary goal of such things should not be policing, but rather vote analysis to give positive feedback to improve future votes ("I agree with x" gets deleted, any vote which tried is okay).
#92
RationalMadman
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@Barney
You don't know this but you copied me. I agree though. What you are doing is going into detail in what I described as a level 3 moderator (1 being top level).
#93
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@Barney

#94
SamStevens
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@RationalMadman
You are asking someone zeichen has practically made into her dedicated protector what he thinks. You may as well ask Smithereens who is even more brainwashed into hating zarroette what he thinks.

How exactly am I her dedicated protector? 
#95
Swagnarok
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I'm just apathetic and irrelevant enough here to be considered a neutral party, and I can confirm that I've heard Zeichen on the Hangouts before. She's neither a man nor YYW, and it's 99℅ likely that she has never committed a felony crime in her life, much less murder.
#96
blamonkey
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http://www.debate.org/forums/Debate.org/topic/13410/

I know that this thread has now devolved into insinuations, insults, and idiocy, (the three terrible i's). Getting back on task, I think that a thread similar to this that explains the jargon behind debating, voting, mafia etc. would allow new people to become better acquainted with the site and competitive debate in general. This is assuming, of course, that we do not have one right now. Please correct me if we do have one. If not, a DDO veteran who has the time would preferably be the best bet in creating this type of thread.
#97
blamonkey
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We should also include the basic rules of the site in said thread and expected punishments for violations, (i.e. temp-banning, removal of thread etc.) By making the rules clear we would likely deter people from engaging in dubious behavior. I guess a rulebook for the site and general recommendations on debateart activity would be what I am advocating for.  
Topic's author
#98
1harderthanyouthink
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@blamonkey
That's a good idea, but we should wait until a mod is commissioned to avoid infighting on whose guide to use.

#99
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@Swagnarok
I heard her too.
#100
Zeichen
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@Swagnarok
and it's 99℅ likely that she has never committed a felony crime in her life, much less murder.
Thank you. 

#101
Zeichen
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@Castin
You have yet again shown how worthless your commentary on this topic truly is. 

RM chose to respond to me five times -- in quick succession. Now, any logical or non-biased person would recognize that this is excessive, and that his behavior was intended to provoke. I made a mere reference, whereas he became consumed by an emotional rage. It is very easy to discern when someone is becoming excitable, because they usually say more than they should, or they make multiple posts within a short period of time. I do not appreciate you persecuting me for what are essentially another person's problems. RM made it very clear in the aforementioned thread that he has three different disorders. Unfortunately, these are disorders that prevent him from behaving in a reasonable manner. If you wish to discuss RM's issues with him, and how they impact the site and other people on it, you may.

Do not, however, hold me accountable for his conduct.
#102
Smithereens
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@Zeichen
RM has three mental disorders? I thought he was just schizoaffective. 
#103
Zeichen
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@Smithereens
According to him, he has the following: 
    1. Asperger's Syndrome.
    2. ADD.
    3. Undiagnosed narcissism. 
    #104
    Castin
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    @Zeichen
    I don't see anything wrong with the content or speed of his five replies. I have however witnessed him say he would rejoice at your suicide and would find you disgusting if you submitted to him sexually. No one can say he's been an innocent party in this. I'm certainly not suggesting the hostility has been one-sided. I'm saying there is an option available to you that might limit further disruption, and that is ignoring each other. Do you disagree? If so, what's an alternate peacekeeping suggestion for the interim? There's no telling when active moderation will be implemented. The block function only works with PM's.
    #105
    drafterman
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    @Castin
    Without commenting on Zeichen, I will attest that RM does become unusually and inappropriately fixated on certain people. Back on DDO, he became fixated on me because I get him lynched in a Mafia game and he hounded me for months, apparently unable to separate reality from fiction. Here, I had to ask him to stop @ing me because my mailbox was filling up with his mentions of me for stuff that had nothing to do with me.

    When I did, he decided to pester me in PMs, prompting me to jump on the "we need a block" bandwagon.

    Now, while I agree that engagement can exacerbate the issue, let me assure you that, since joining here, I haven't engaged him. Save from: 1) asking him to stop @ing me; and 2) asking him to stop PMing me, I have not engaged him at all, yet I still end up being the recipient of this spamming and weird behavior.
    #106
    RationalMadman
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    @drafterman
    When you spam me, it's kind of hard to frame me.


    #107
    RationalMadman
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    ^^^^^^ the conversation ended there
    #108
    drafterman
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    @Castin
    Case-in-point. You don't have to be talking to him, you just have to merely mention him and he'll seek you out. Look at the private message he just decided to blast out publicly: he approached me; he continued to message me despite me telling him I didn't want him to message me. At no point did I initiate a message; they were all responses. Yet he reframes it as me "spamming" and "framing" him.

    While I agree that "ignoring" is the best solution, there is no accounting or predicting how he is going to perceive any given situation. A seemingly innocent post having nothing to do with him could be perceived as antagonistic and illicit a response.
    #109
    Zeichen
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    @Castin
    I don't see anything wrong with the content or speed of his five replies.
    Once again, replying a number of five times to a forum post -- without the person having responded to you yet -- is indicative of a problem on your part. 

    For example, would you concede that it would be rather strange of me to make five different replies to you here? Why is one reply not sufficient?

    I have however witnessed him say he would rejoice at your suicide and would find you disgusting if you submitted to him sexually.
    I think RM and I both know that he would be quite aroused by this event. He has not seen me, but has a fair idea of what I look like. This is to the extent that it would not be surprising if he is experiencing some unresolved sexual tension. To me, he seems very frustrated. He has also initiated three private conversations with me on DDO, and here. Why would you message someone whom you claim to despise? In the first message, he was actually very apologetic. Alas, he then reverted to the same childish behavior. It has been obvious to me for some time that RM cares about what I think of him. I can only assume that this is why he was so profoundly upset when I said that he had a "gay voice" during a hangout. There are moments when he presents himself as an obsessive and easily offended boyfriend. 


    If so, what's an alternate peacekeeping suggestion for the interim? There's no telling when active moderation will be implemented. The block function only works with PM's. 
    At present, the block function only works with PM's. However, I have spoken with Mikhail today and he plans to extend this function to the forum and debates section(s). This should mean that if you block someone, they cannot respond to any posts that you make.
    #110
    RationalMadman
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    @Zeichen
    You can fuck right off if you think I'm attracted to you.

    You think you have the disgusting right to seduce me or flirt with me because you're female. I'm not SameStevens or Smithereens, I aint got no room for mercy for a female enemy of mine whether they are female or not.
    #111
    Castin
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    @drafterman
    Without commenting on Zeichen, I will attest that RM does become unusually and inappropriately fixated on certain people. Back on DDO, he became fixated on me because I get him lynched in a Mafia game and he hounded me for months, apparently unable to separate reality from fiction. Here, I had to ask him to stop @ing me because my mailbox was filling up with his mentions of me for stuff that had nothing to do with me.

    When I did, he decided to pester me in PMs, prompting me to jump on the "we need a block" bandwagon.

    Now, while I agree that engagement can exacerbate the issue, let me assure you that, since joining here, I haven't engaged him. Save from: 1) asking him to stop @ing me; and 2) asking him to stop PMing me, I have not engaged him at all, yet I still end up being the recipient of this spamming and weird behavior.
    I can easily imagine Mike being exasperated with all this inflammatory talk of what members have done or said off site. We can't seem to stop dragging DDO history into this. I know I find it hard to resist bringing it up sometimes. But it's just not his concern. I think how we're judged here should be earned by our conduct here only, and that goes for Zeichen and RM. Knowing how a member has behaved on other sites is certainly useful for one's own reference when dealing with that member, but it should be neither relevant or actionable to the administration. In my opinion, of course.

    As for RM's behavior here, he @'d me a few times in the debate voting thread as well, but quickly desisted. I admit I have very mixed feelings about publicizing these PM's. But I see that you did have to tell him three times. Did he permanently stop afterward?

    #112
    drafterman
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    @Castin
    I can easily imagine Mike being exasperated with all this inflammatory talk of what members have done or said off site. We can't seem to stop dragging DDO history into this. I know I find it hard to resist bringing it up sometimes. But it's just not his concern. I think how we're judged here should be earned by our conduct here only, and that goes for Zeichen and RM. Knowing how a member has behaved on other sites is certainly useful for one's own reference when dealing with that member, but it should be neither relevant or actionable to the administration. In my opinion, of course.
    You're absolutely right and I agree. Which is why I decided to enter this place with a clean slate and just not interact with him at all. Yet here we are. I only referenced DDO because I was unsure of how much you knew.

    As for RM's behavior here, he @'d me a few times in the debate voting thread as well, but quickly desisted. I admit I have very mixed feelings about publicizing these PM's. But I see that you did have to tell him three times. Did he permanently stop afterward? 
    The block was implemented shortly afterward, so yes, but not necessarily by his choice.
    #113
    Castin
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    @Zeichen
    Buddamoose responded to me with five posts in a row in this thread. Is there a problem with it? https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/131?page=1

    At present, the block function only works with PM's. However, I have spoken with Mikhail today and he plans to extend this function to the forum and debates section(s). This should mean that if you block someone, they cannot respond to any posts that you make.
    Oh then this sounds like a great solution. I think it'll relieve a lot of this tension and conflict.
    #114
    Zeichen
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    @RationalMadman
    You think you have the disgusting right to seduce me or flirt with me because you're female. I'm not SameStevens or Smithereens, I aint got no room for mercy for a female enemy of mine whether they are female or not

    You are very mistaken if you think that I wish to seduce you. 

    I have higher standards =) 
    #115
    RationalMadman
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    @Zeichen
    You go girl.
    #116
    RationalMadman
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    @drafterman
    The block was implemented a week after.
    #117
    Buddamoose
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    RM chose to respond to me five times -- in quick succession. Now, any logical or non-biased person would recognize that this is excessive, and that his behavior was intended to provoke
    This is quite some projection you have going here, as illustrated by:
    it is very easy to discern when someone is becoming excitable, because they usually say more than they should, or they make multiple posts within a short period of time.

    So easy to discern, and yet you would have us hold it is indiscernible to you and there is just noooo way you fully realize poking Rational will illicit that reaction. No, you do fully understand thats exactly the reaction that will be gotten. 

    I find that you are pulling out the victim card in this to be a rather trite usage, especially since you full out acknowledged its easy to discern when somebody is over-emotional and will react in such a manner. Again, you would have us hold its obvious to discern, but in the same breadth hold that your actions have zero recognition of this and are done without any knowledge it will. 

    RM isnt innocent in this, neither are you, and frankly, pulling out the victim card. As you have said he has admitted to having 3 kinds of mental disorders. Yet, again, you choose to poke. Are you the kinda person that tries to grab ice cream out of an autists hands and cry wrongdoing when you get bit? 🤔
    #118
    Buddamoose
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    @Castin
    The whole post frequency point is just utterly arbitrary beyond that. As Castin pointed out, i've done that before. Would that be held as a punishable offense? I doubt it

    @Castin- You keep up with pointing out when i ramble and I'll poop in ur wheaties 😤😂

    #119
    SamStevens
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    @RationalMadman
    You think you have the disgusting right to seduce me or flirt with me because you're female. I'm not SameStevens or Smithereens, I aint got no room for mercy for a female enemy of mine whether they are female or not.
    So I'm her dedicated protector because I flirted with her in the forums?
    #120
    Zeichen
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    @Buddamoose
    This is quite some projection you have going here, as illustrated by:

    You have failed to illustrate why it is a case of self-projection. I have not made multiple posts within a short period of time to any member on here. I will always wait until they respond to the first post I make. 


    So easy to discern, and yet you would have us hold it is indiscernible to you and there is just noooo way you fully realize poking Rational will illicit that reaction. No, you do fully understand thats exactly the reaction that will be gotten. 

    I find that you are pulling out the victim card in this to be a rather trite usage, especially since you full out acknowledged its easy to discern when somebody is over-emotional and will react in such a manner. Again, you would have us hold its obvious to discern, but in the same breadth hold that your actions have zero recognition of this and are done without any knowledge it will. 

    RM isnt innocent in this, neither are you, and frankly, pulling out the victim card. As you have said he has admitted to having 3 kinds of mental disorders. Yet, again, you choose to poke. Are you the kinda person that tries to grab ice cream out of an autists hands and cry wrongdoing when you get bit?
    • I have not claimed to be a victim. 
    • RM did say that he wanted me to kill myself, and also threatened to slit my throat. 
    I have done nothing of the kind to him. In other words, you need to reevaluate your stance on the issue.