Anti-Abortion = Anti-Personal-Privacy

Author: 3RU7AL

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@TheRealNihilist
"So, basically, there is not a lot of difference among the blood of different species of mammals. In order to identify the origin of a sample of blood, one would need to do DNA testing."

Is your claim DNA?
I honestly don't know what claim you are referring to.

How do you, you, yourself, you, personally, how do you identify a human?
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@TheRealNihilist
In order to test blood to see if it is of human origin, a sample of the  blood is collected, and is mixed with anti-human serum. If the blood coagulates, the test is considered positive for human blood.

Anti-human serum is produced by injecting rabbits or other lab animals with serum (also known as plasma, the liquid fraction of the blood) of human blood type O negative. The animals immune systems will react to the foreign non-rabbit proteins present in the human plasma, and they will develop antibodies to these proteins. After the antibodies have formed, blood is drawn from the animal, and the antibodies are extracted from the blood. When these antibodies come in contact with human serum proteins, a clumping or clotting reaction occurs, which can be seen with the naked eye.
If the blood is determined to be human additional tests will be performed to determine blood type, Rh group, and other information. [LINK]

So, a DNA test is not mandatory.
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@3RU7AL
Your [LINK] stated this "So, basically, there is not a lot of difference among the blood of different species of mammals. In order to identify the origin of a sample of blood, one would need to do DNA testing.".

What does this mean?

From this I gather human blood tested by using anti-human serum which is gained by injecting the blood into rabbits and waiting a period of time for the antibodies to kick in. When that is done the blood is drawn then tested on human serum proteins to see if it clumping. If that happens it is human blood. Correct? 

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@TheRealNihilist
From this I gather human blood tested by using anti-human serum which is gained by injecting the blood into rabbits and waiting a period of time for the antibodies to kick in. When that is done the blood is drawn then tested on human serum proteins to see if it clumping. If that happens it is human blood. Correct? 
To the best of my knowledge. 
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@3RU7AL
Your [LINK] stated this "So, basically, there is not a lot of difference among the blood of different species of mammals. In order to identify the origin of a sample of blood, one would need to do DNA testing.".

What does this mean?

Answer?
To the best of my knowledge. 

Are you telling what makes a human is their blood cells? 
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@TheRealNihilist
What does this mean?
Answer?
In order to determine which individual organism the cells are members of, DNA testing would be required.

To the best of my knowledge. 
Are you telling what makes a human is their blood cells? 
If a sample contains an overwhelming majority of human blood cells, then that sample is, in all reasonable likelihood, from a human.
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@3RU7AL
In order to determine which individual organism the cells are members of, DNA testing would be required.
Would you say humans are different DNA or humans have DNA?
If a sample contains an overwhelming majority of human blood cells, then that sample is, in all reasonable likelihood, from a human.

A biologist stated Rhesus monkeys have blood types in common with humans. Are Rhesus monkeys human? 
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@TheRealNihilist
A biologist stated Rhesus monkeys have blood types in common with humans. Are Rhesus monkeys human? 
We seem to have lost the plot.

ARE YOU ASKING IF A ZYGOTE/BLASTOCYST/EMBRYO/FETUS IS HUMAN?

I'm pretty sure we all agree that it is alive and comprised of 100% human cells (and is therefore human).
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@TheRealNihilist
The blood group commonality between humans and other animals thus is not a new revelation, but this raises question of why xenotransfusion was not seriously decades ago.

One reason is because, despite ABO and Rh commonality, there are minor differences between the blood of humans, apes, and other animals whose effects on transfusion would have to be understood completely. Humans also may still have some lingering superstitions about blood from non-humans that make xenotransfusion unpalatable. Also, when it comes to great apes, they are endangered. They’re not like cows and pigs that simply are bred in industrial quantities to serve humans. So, even while it might be no more trouble for an ape to donate blood than for a hen to lay eggs, the supply of ape blood would be fairly small anyway.

Thus, as we consider xenotransfusion pigs might actually be a more feasible option, and in fact that’s what’s happening. Xenotransfusion research currently focusses on pigs, not apes, and it’s not just because pigs are abundant. They’re blood actually is quite similar to human blood. The size of red blood cells is similar. So is the typical red blood cell life span, the hemoglobin content and structure, and other factors, plus pigs can be genetically modified to produce red blood cells that are equivalent to human type O negative. As noted earlier, that’s the universal donor blood, and this makes xenotransfusion sound very attractive, although, other ways to make O negative blood also beckon. [LINK]
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@3RU7AL
I don't really want to continue this conversation. Next time I'll just go straight into commenting what I want instead of asking you questions in hopes to not require even more questions to understand. 

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aint nobodies bizness if you du
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@TheRealNihilist
I don't really want to continue this conversation. Next time I'll just go straight into commenting what I want instead of asking you questions in hopes to not require even more questions to understand. 
Well, if you pick a spot on the ground (a random topic) and you start digging (investigating, asking questions), you will very likely find things you weren't expecting to find long before you hit bedrock (or your shovel breaks, which seems to be the case this time).
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@3RU7AL
This is not the slightest bit arbitrary.

At birth the umbilical cord is cut and the mass of cells ceases to be a parasite, which is comprised of nearly 100% material from the host and instead at that moment, becomes a semi-autonomous citizen of the state.

It moves from being inside the mother's sovereign territory and into the sovereign territory of the state.

This is a type of migration.

Applicable laws are based on jurisdiction.

If you're standing in Croatia, then Croatia's laws apply to you.

If you're standing in India, then India's laws apply to you.

If you're inside another person, then you are at their mercy.

You're not necessarily contradicting my point. You argue only that this arbitration is subject to the jurisdiction of a territory.
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@Athias
You're not necessarily contradicting my point. You argue only that this arbitration is subject to the jurisdiction of a territory.
It's basically the same as what you said.

The mother has sole jurisdiction over her womb.

When the life-form moves outside of that jurisdiction (womb) it is subject to the laws of that new land.
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@3RU7AL
It's basically the same as what you said.

The mother has sole jurisdiction over her womb.

When the life-form moves outside of that jurisdiction (womb) it is subject to the laws of that new land.
Isn't the mother's territory subject to the jurisdiction of the outside territory? To what extent is her territory independent from the outside territory which legislates, according to you, the very right to said territory?

Are her time, labor, and resources not part of her jurisdiction? Why does the state get to compel those, but not her body?
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@3RU7AL
Well, if you pick a spot on the ground (a random topic) and you start digging (investigating, asking questions), you will very likely find things you weren't expecting to find long before you hit bedrock (or your shovel breaks, which seems to be the case this time).
I just think I am spending too much time on this.

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@Athias
Why does the state get to compel those, but not her body?
Because the state owns the land and the roads and the bridges and the money, but NOT HER BODY.
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@3RU7AL
Because the state owns the land and the roads and the bridges and the money, but NOT HER BODY.
No, the State effectively controls the lands, roads, bridges, and the money. It does not "own" it. The State, is argued, to be the proxy of its constituents; therefore, they would "own" the land since their tax dollars are used in the alienation of land, roads, bridges, and even money. However, since there no single proprietors sustaining ownership of the lands, it's essentially owned by no one. But I digress.

But to your point, if the State does not "own" her body, and I would agree, what would justify its "owning" her time, labor, and resources? She can only dispossess her obligation if she's able to legally alienate it to another, a rule which is created by the State.

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@Athias
No, the State effectively controls the lands, roads, bridges, and the money. It does not "own" it.
The state can capriciously raise taxes on your land.

Land Taxation = a De Facto indefinite lease which means if you don't pay your taxes, the land reverts back to the state.

In a very real and practical sense you are merely leasing the land, you do not own it, the state owns it and they are charging you rent.

The state can take your land at will by declaring "eminent domain".

The state can invade your land with police forces at any moment based on whatever rules they decide to fabricate ad hoc.

Your only recourse if you perceive an injustice is to petition the state, the same state that is responsible for the injustice.

That would be like asking a serial killer to also preside as the judge at their own trial.

For years experts have warned Americans how budget bill after budget bill has moved through Congress and signed by the President which would allow banks to simply confiscate depositors' money. This has happened in other countries across the globe, most notably in Cyprus, Greece and we are being warned again that the day is now rapidly approaching where bail-ins will be a fact of life right here in the USA. [*]

If your money is in a bank, then the bank controls your money.

The state controls the banks and de facto owns your money.

Your bank accounts can be frozen with zero notice for any reason or non-reason or level of suspicion, justified or not.

If you are discovered to have more than a couple thousand dollars in cash, then your cash can be confiscated on the spot, without due process.

This is not a joke.

She can only dispossess her obligation if she's able to legally alienate it to another...
If you'd be so kind as to rephrase this.
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@3RU7AL
If you'd be so kind as to rephrase this.
The state obligates her to provide her time, labor, and resources to her infant. She may only relinquish this responsibility if only if she's able to transfer this responsibility to another (e.g. medical professionals, public servants, prospective adoptive parents, etc.) That makes her time, labor, and resources subject to the jurisdiction and arbitration of the State.

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@Athias
The state obligates her to provide her time, labor, and resources to her infant. She may only relinquish this responsibility if only if she's able to transfer this responsibility to another (e.g. medical professionals, public servants, prospective adoptive parents, etc.) That makes her time, labor, and resources subject to the jurisdiction and arbitration of the State.
This is not necessarily true.

Most jurisdictions have exceptions to child abandonment in the form of safe haven laws. Safe Haven Laws allow mothers to safely abandon their newborn infants in safe locations - such as churches, hospitals, and fire stations - without fear of being charged with the crime of child abandonment. [*]
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@Athias
That makes her time, labor, and resources subject to the jurisdiction and arbitration of the State.
I'm not sure how this is considered an extraordinary case.

The time, labor, and resources of all citizens is subject to the jurisdiction and arbitration (whim) of the state.

Pretty much the only thing they don't already own (capriciously confiscate (take ownership of) at will) is your body and whatever might be inside it.
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@3RU7AL
This is not necessarily true.

Most jurisdictions have exceptions to child abandonment in the form of safe haven laws. Safe Haven Laws allow mothers to safely abandon their newborn infants in safe locations - such as churches, hospitals, and fire stations - without fear of being charged with the crime of child abandonment. [*]

This is necessarily true. Safe haven laws presume the transfer of responsibility even if the transfer doesn't happen in person because those safe havens are legally recognized corporations/institutions. And the premises are part of their corporate entity.  But could she do the same at an abandoned church, hospital, or firehouse? 


I'm not sure how this is considered an extraordinary case.

The time, labor, and resources of all citizens is subject to the jurisdiction and arbitration (whim) of the state.

Pretty much the only thing they don't already own (capriciously confiscate (take ownership of) at will) is your body and whatever might be inside it.
Hence, arbitrary, more so inconsistent. 
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@Athias
This is necessarily true.
You're moving the goal posts.

It is not the mother's responsibility to procure the safety of their abandoned child.

It is merely the mother's responsibility to locate a sanctioned drop-off-point.

Your assertion would be like saying that people can't throw away their garbage whenever they want, because they need to drive-all-the-way to the nearest sanctioned city dump and then follow proper procedure (or pay someone to do it for them).

Safe haven laws presume the transfer of responsibility even if the transfer doesn't happen in person because those safe havens are legally recognized corporations/institutions.
Sure, but the mothers "responsibility" ends the moment she drops the kid off at a sanctioned drop-off-point.  Easy-peasy.

And the premises are part of their corporate entity.  But could she do the same at an abandoned church, hospital, or firehouse? 
It is merely the mother's responsibility to locate a sanctioned drop-off-point.
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@Athias
I'm not sure how this is considered an extraordinary case.

The time, labor, and resources of all citizens is subject to the jurisdiction and arbitration (whim) of the state.

Pretty much the only thing they don't already own (capriciously confiscate (take ownership of) at will) is your body and whatever might be inside it.
Hence, arbitrary, more so inconsistent. 
You're making an appeal to ambiguity which is an appeal to ignorance.

You're basically asserting that because you have failed to identify any coherent framework or principle, that there must be no coherent framework or principle (therefore arbitrary).

If your claim (of "inconsistent") is regarding a particular perceived inconsistency, please be more specific.
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@3RU7AL
You're moving the goal posts.

It is not the mother's responsibility to procure the safety of their abandoned child.

It is merely the mother's responsibility to locate a sanctioned drop-off-point.

Your assertion would be like saying that people can't throw away their garbage whenever they want, because they need to drive-all-the-way to the nearest sanctioned city dump and then follow proper procedure (or pay someone to do it for them).

There are no moving goal posts. It would be like my saying that disposing garbage is under my sovereign jurisdiction, but I'm still obligated to the dictates of the City Dump. That's the reason it's necessary for you to include the qualifier "sanctioned." Once again, could she do this at an abandoned church, hospital, or firehouse? Why must she transfer responsibility (in accordance to the dictates of the State) and not simply relinquish it (like abortion)?

Sure, but the mothers "responsibility" ends the moment she drops the kid off at a sanctioned drop-off-point.  Easy-peasy.
But she still has the responsibility however long it's sustained. What responsibility does she bear when she has an abortion?

It is merely the mother's responsibility to locate a sanctioned drop-off-point.
...in order to transfer her presupposed responsibility to her infant's welfare.

You're basically asserting that because you have failed to identify any coherent framework or principle, that there must be no coherent framework or principle (therefore arbitrary).
No. It's arbitrary; therefore, it's an incoherent framework. (Not an appeal to ignorance.)

If your claim (of "inconsistent") is regarding a particular perceived inconsistency, please be more specific.
The responsibility she bears her infant child as well as the responsibility she bears at the prospect of a late-term abortion countermands your argument that the proverbial woman's body is a legally recognizable sovereign territory.
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@Athias
There are no moving goal posts. It would be like my saying that disposing garbage is under my sovereign jurisdiction, but I'm still obligated to the dictates of the City Dump. That's the reason it's necessary for you to include the qualifier "sanctioned." Once again, could she do this at an abandoned church, hospital, or firehouse? Why must she transfer responsibility (in accordance to the dictates of the State) and not simply relinquish it (like abortion)?
The analogy is congruent.

(IFF) you want to abdicate responsibility for a blastocyst/zygote/embryo/fetus (THEN) you must visit a properly equipped and sanctioned facility.

(IFF) you want to abdicate responsibility for a child (THEN) you must visit a properly equipped and sanctioned facility.
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@3RU7AL
you want to abdicate responsibility for a blastocyst/zygote/embryo/fetus (THEN) you must visit a properly equipped and sanctioned facility.
Substantiate that the properly equipped and sanctioned facility is subject to the dictates of the State.

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@Athias
Substantiate that the properly equipped and sanctioned facility is subject to the dictates of the State.
Please be more specific.

Are you suggesting that medical facilities are NOT licensed by the state?
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@3RU7AL
Please be more specific.

Are you suggesting that medical facilities are NOT licensed by the state?
No. Provide substantiation that the facility where she carries out the abortion has to be a licensed medical facility.