Christmas, The Contrived Sham to Hide Our True Roots... Paganism.

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Christianity tends to highjack holidays. 
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Christianity tends to highjack holidays.
Christianity didn't hijack those holidays; those holidays (e.g. Easter Sunday, Christmas, etc.) are being disguised as Christian. I remember mentioning this on some other thread: Catholicism is paganism a la Luciferianism. Easter Sunday is really in veneration of the Sumerian "mother" goddess Ishtar (Eas * ter) aka Innana, and Christmas a.k.a. Saturnalia is in veneration of the roman god, Saturn, who in his Egyptian incarnation was known as Osiris. The 25th of December does not denote the "birth of Jesus," but the reincarnation of Osiris through his son, Horus, which occurred 28 days after his death (November 27.)

Even the papacy is a pagan rite. The headgear they wear is known as "the Mitre" which is by no coincidence shaped like a fish's mouth. This is symbolic of the fish god, Dagon. (This is the reason the practice of "baptism" involves being dipped into bodies of water.) The pope as well as the cardinals carry staffs known as the "crossier" which, when doing research into its past, was known as the "crooked wand." Pope Ratzinger a.k.a. Pope Benedict XVI was forced to resign after numerous accounts, depositions, and affidavits informed on his magisterial rights, where he'd participate in child sacrifices and child abuse. And I'm willing to bet Pope Jorge Mario Bergoglio a.k.a. Pope Francis is no different.


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And the bible itself? Many stories in Christianity are adaptations of other religions.
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Christianity wanted Christmas real real bad like hey? 

What i found funny was these orthodox Christians, and how they celebrate on the 7th af January.
( i take note ) 

It seems that God doesn't want us fussing over Christmas. 
He is like. Yeah havd fun, but just remember , I AM THE MAN. 
Spend your time over Christmas thinking about MEEEEEEEE.  
Oh and don't go decorate no Christmas trees.

One more thing about Christmas and Christianity. 
Christmas carols taught me everything i know about the Jesus.  

Merry Christmas Reece.
Good game.


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Which Bible? And which stories?
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The Epic of Gilgamesh and Noah’s Flood.

Similarities: Gilgamesh builds a massive boat to fit his family, friends and animals on before wrathful gods flood the world. He then sends a bird out to find land as Noah did.


Ancient Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh and the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis.

Similarities: Nudity, female temptress, force evacuation of a natural paradise.


Prince Siddhartha Gautama’s (the Buddha’s) journey to become enlightened and Jesus’s experience with the devil in the desert. 

Similarities: Fasting and temptation by “demons”. 


Hercules and Samson.

Similarities: Super-Strength and killed lions with their bare hands.


Saktideva (Hinduism) and Jonah.

Similarities: both get swallowed by a massive fish after a storm destroys their vessels. Both survive.




I can keep going. I think it’s clear.




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Provide evidence for that claim.
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Christmas represents the birth of Christ, but the timing is off. It replaced the pagan holidays of Germanic Yule and Roman Saturnalia. 

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The headgear they wear is known as "the Mitre" which is by no coincidence shaped like a fish's mouth.

 I can  in part agree with that. It may not be "coincidence".

The Fish/ Pisces was the sign of Christians but not necessarily the Christ himself. This is probably why we have  references to the fish, as in the belief that some his disciples were "fishermen" and Jesus spoke of making them "fishers of men". loaves and " two fish". The age before the Fish/ Pisces, was the Ram/ Aries. Where, in the OT there are many references to sheep and rams and rams horns and of Pharaoh hating shepherds.

I believe that this is maybe why that there is 10 years  approx discrepancy concerning the biblical birth of Jesus. It appears, whether by accident or design, that at least one of the of these gospels were attempting to make Jesus  of the house of the Ram/Aries and related to the age Moses & Joshua and the one was attempting make him a Fish of the house of Pisces. The thing about these celestial houses  that the ancients lived by, was that those connected to the outgoing house/age didn't want to give up authority, ruler ship or dominion to the new incoming age/house. It usually ended in devastating war, slaughter bloodshed and carnage.

And in Jesus' time those that occupied the throne and the temple, as far as Jesus was concerned, were impostors. And  this probably explains the hate that the  'impostors' had for Jesus and his followers, and would also explain why they would want this, believed  mild mannered meek pacifist, turn the other cheek , dead.

I have mentioned before here somewhere that according to some astrologers we are entering or are now in the age of Water/ Aquarius. This shouldn't surprise anyone who actually understand how these Houses are supposed to work in relation to mankind.

Has the the Roman church handed authority over to another house? I don't know, but it should be observed that as a rule, when a Pope died  his "fisherman's ring"  was destroyed and a new ring was forged for the new Pope. This didn't happen the last time a new Pope was elected. Indeed , the ring of Pope Benedict XVI was kept and placed in the Vatican history museum, where it can be viewed to this day. And another coincidence was that this Pope retired, from a job that was supposed to be for life until death. And I don't believe either that at the same time that the Pope "retired", withing a few days here in the UK the - then -  Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams "stood down" and also retired his post to rank outsider Justin Welby.






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I wonder if anyone here noticed that New Years is the day that the incarnate Jesus, taking the flesh of a Jew under the mosaic covenant, would have been circumcised.

If you didn't, now you got some trivias for ya you probably didn't want to know. 

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The incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ effectively sanctifies creation. What does that mean? It means we should not see the use of matter as evil.


Is it so strange? How do you reach a people who in their pagan superstition worship images made of wood and paint or stone? What the church does is take what is actually a very common and almost universal pagan practice and adapts it in such a way as to no longer be pagan. The idolaters worship matter. To contrast, when we venerate say, an Icon of Saint Raphael of Brooklyn as an example, what we are truly doing is worshipping God by adoring the Christ in them. We do not adore the saints as we do God, and our veneration of them is even directed at God. We do not worship the wood and paint. We do not worship men in the place of God.

The iconoclasts who would charge the Church with idolatry, not truly understanding how it is we use holy images. If you are an iconoclast, I suggest you look into the 7th ecumenical council and read the book "On the divine Images" by St. John of Damascus.

What the church has always done in its great charity is take the deluded practices of pagans and direct those practices towards God in such a way that is conducive to right worship.


All that said now, it is silly to accuse the church of hijacking holidays. How can you hijack a holiday? Calendars are almost invariably based on celestial events. I don't believe the church appropriated pagan holidays any more than the pagans who also tended to order their feasts based on celestial events. 

I have heard the church accused of appropriation in regards to us coming together on Sundays. The truth is, we celebrate on Sunday because to us it represents the eternal 8th day(Saturday being the 7th, the sabbath) which has more to do with Christ's resurrection than a connscious effort to meet on the same day that many Roman pagans did.

My viewpoint is whether or not the church baptized so to speak pagan holidays, which by the way, I don't necessarily regard as a reality, it was fully in its authority to do so.

But I'd also like to point out a somewhat relevent scripture..


"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."



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The Epic of Gilgamesh and Noah’s Flood.

Similarities: Gilgamesh builds a massive boat to fit his family, friends and animals on before wrathful gods flood the world. He then sends a bird out to find land as Noah did.


Ancient Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh and the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis.

Similarities: Nudity, female temptress, force evacuation of a natural paradise.


Prince Siddhartha Gautama’s (the Buddha’s) journey to become enlightened and Jesus’s experience with the devil in the desert. 

Similarities: Fasting and temptation by “demons”. 


Hercules and Samson.

Similarities: Super-Strength and killed lions with their bare hands.


Saktideva (Hinduism) and Jonah.

Similarities: both get swallowed by a massive fish after a storm destroys their vessels. Both survive.
There are similarities between Christianity and Paganism a la Luciferianism. (And yes all pagan religions are Luciferian because their gods are incarnations of the Luciferian trinity.) But this is done on purpose. Christianity is known as the "right hand path" and Paganism is the "left hand path." The Christian trinity is "the father, the son, and the holy spirit," and the Luciferian trinity is "the father, the mother, and the son/hermaphrodite." Luiferianism is merely a perversion of Christianity. You're presuming that Christians "hijacked" those "stories" because of timelines concerning prominence, not access.
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There are similarities between Christianity and Paganism a la Luciferianism. (And yes all pagan religions are Luciferian because their gods are incarnations of the Luciferian trinity.) But this is done on purpose. Christianity is known as the "right hand path" and Paganism is the "left hand path." The Christian trinity is "the father, the son, and the holy spirit," and the Luciferian trinity is "the father, the mother, and the son/hermaphrodite." Luiferianism is merely a perversion of Christianity.
Luciferianism like Christianity has various doctrines and a lot of dogma surrounding it. That being said Paganism is older than Christianity. There’s no perversion from paganism... Christianity on other hand. 

You're presuming that Christians "hijacked" those "stories" because of timelines concerning prominence, not access. 
Keep in mind many of the original archetypical stories aren’t pagan. 
What do you mean by access? 


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Luciferianism like Christianity has various doctrines and a lot of dogma surrounding it. That being said Paganism is older than Christianity. There’s no perversion from paganism... Christianity on other hand

The religion that we Orthodox Christians follow is The Way.


That isn't immediately obvious to those who are not initiated into the mysteries.


We would actually say that The Way is the primordial religion. True Religion has always existed in some form or another.


True Religion is to abide in The Way. It is to live The Truth.

Paganism, varied as it is, is united by one common thing. The adoration of creation as divine. Because pagans worship the creature rather than the creator, we would say that paganism is infact an aberration of true religion. While True Religion is natural to the pure in heart, paganism only manifests itself when a heart is defiled by idolatry.

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The religion that we Orthodox Christians follow is The Way.


That isn't immediately obvious to those who are not initiated into the mysteries.


We would actually say that The Way is the primordial religion. True Religion has always existed in some form or another.


True Religion is to abide in The Way. It is to live The Truth.
You seem like what a conservative would say a post-modernist sounds like.

Paganism, varied as it is, is united by one common thing. The adoration of creation as divine. Because pagans worship the creature rather than the creator, we would say that paganism is infact an aberration of true religion. While True Religion is natural to the pure in heart, paganism only manifests itself when a heart is defiled by idolatry.
You guys are probably referring more to modern paganism while I’m referring to paganism in general such as Norse, etc. 

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I was born on the same day as the landing on the moon. Now it is my birthday.  I guess this means I hijacked it. Or perhaps it was coincidence?

Or perhaps two things can be celebrated on the same day without there being a conspiracy?

LOL! @ all of the conspiracists. 

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Even ancient forms of paganism make gods out of forces of nature, emotions, ideals, and at the most base objects fashioned by hands.

So we would still say that the thing that unifies paganism is the worship of created things. That is pretty much what defines paganism to us.

To contrast, we believe in One God, The Ultimate Reality. The Ultimate Reality is not created, but The Uncreated.

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I was born on the same day as the landing on the moon. Now it is my birthday.  I guess this means I hijacked it. Or perhaps it was coincidence?

Or perhaps two things can be celebrated on the same day without there being a conspiracy?

LOL! @ all of the conspiracists. 

I’m half/half trolling and being serious. That being said Christianity for much of its existence has been a state religion. Easily manipulated. Christianity is still a semi-state religion to conservatives. 




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Even ancient forms of paganism make gods out of forces of nature, emotions, ideals, and at the most base objects fashioned by hands.
The only difference your saying is the leaning towards nature aspect. That’s less than you might assume. Everything else applies to Christianity too. Are you serious?

So we would still say that the thing that unifies paganism is the worship of created things. That is pretty much what defines paganism to us.
Like the cross or a statue of Merry? Symbolism is in most if not all major religions. 

To contrast, we believe in One God, The Ultimate Reality. The Ultimate Reality is not created, but The Uncreated.
I say ultimate reality is what is, not what’s imagined to be.

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Even ancient forms of paganism make gods out of forces of nature, emotions, ideals, and at the most base objects fashioned by hands.
The only difference your saying is the leaning towards nature aspect. That’s less than you might assume. Everything else applies to Christianity too. Are you serious?

I am not sure what you are saying, but we do not adore nature as God, nor do we make gods out of emotions, ideals, or objects fashioned by hands. Certainly such practices are not orthodox. 


Like the cross or a statue of Merry? Symbolism is in most if not all major religions


We do not adore statues or symbols as God. Rather, we recognize that as created beings our relationship with God is through creation. The object of our worship is The Supreme Ultimate Reality. When God became incarnate, it sanctified creation and matter, because God is present in it. God is with us. But we are not pantheists, that is, we do not adore creation itself or the universe as God. It would be more accurate to describe us as panentheists, because we understand God as being bigger than creation, yet at the same time filling all things. The divine nature is very different than the created nature.


I say ultimate reality is what is, not what’s imagined to be.

I agree 100%
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I am not sure what you are saying, but we do not adore nature as God, nor do we make gods out of emotions, ideals, or objects fashioned by hands. Certainly such practices are not orthodox.
Yeah, truism.
In paganism it happens less than you’d think (adoring nature as god(s)). Having power over nature, well that’s a whole different thing, which the Christian god is also guilty of.


nor do we make gods out of emotions
Yes, christians like many other religions do — by Interpretation, cherry picking, upbringing and other ideological factors such as politics.

Ideals
You don’t think ideals are involved with God? This is what I find the most stupid. I’ll just throw out the most obvious... the Ten Commandments.

Objects fashioned by hands
You don’t think “true” orthodox christians warship symbols? This is very close to the number one spot for stupidity.

We do not adore statues or symbols as God. Rather, we recognize that as created beings our relationship with God is through creation.
Idols of Jesus? The Creation of Adam painting? Wine and crackers/bread. I’m sure there’s plenty of adoring/worshiping going on.

I understand everything else you said. I have no objections. 





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Yeah, truism.
In paganism it happens less than you’d think (adoring nature as god(s)). Having power over nature, well that’s a whole different thing, which the Christian god is also guilty of.

Our God is not an emotion, an ideal, or objects fashioned by hands. It is not facts or truths that we worship. What we worship is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality in Spirit and in Truth. The God who became incarnate, dwelling in all things by His Word and life giving breathe.

So what we are in fact is very different than the pagan. The pagan worships creation. That is what distinguishes a pagan for us.

The One True God is Righteousness itself, perfectly sinless, and can not be "guilty".


Yes, christians like many other religions do — by Interpretation, cherry picking, upbringing and other ideological factors such as politics.
The problem is always in deviation from orthodoxy. We would consider it folly to make idols of these things.


You don’t think ideals are involved with God? This is what I find the most stupid. I’ll just throw out the most obvious... the Ten Commandments.
If you really think it is stupid, maybe you should be more charitable.

The 10 commandments are not an ideal so much as a guideline on how not to be a piece of shit.


You don’t think “true” orthodox christians warship symbols? This is very close to the number one spot for stupidity

There is a difference between the adoration we give to God and the symbols we use to express our faith. We do not worship symbols. 


Idols of Jesus? The Creation of Adam painting? Wine and crackers/bread. I’m sure there’s plenty of adoring/worshiping going on.

There is a very big difference between the worship we give to God alone and the use of iconography. As created beings, we use the medium of creation to express things. We are not worshipping a prayer when we pray to God. We are not bowing to idols when we stand before a portrait of a great saint and venerate them for the Christ that shone through them. See that even in the venerating of saints, the adoration is directed at God. That is certainly the proper use of icons. Worshipping wood and paint is superstitious. The saints are Holy not because they themselves are holy so much as that in their lives God managed to shine bright through them. That is why they are venerated. It is the God in them we adore, not the saint. We honor the saints.

The eucharist is quite a bit different than those other things, as it is a sacred mystery of the faith. It is something to be experienced. Do you know what eucharist means? It means thanksgiving. Thanksgiving isn't something to be intellectualized as much as it is to be experienced. That is the case with all mysteries. We do not worship bread and wine, we worship the God that in His incarnation gave life to all things, even becoming the flesh that is our food and the blood that is our drink.

We do not worship matter any more than we worship a man as God. 


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^^^^
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Our responses are just going to get bigger and bigger. I’m just going to narrow it down.

Do you know what theory of mind is? Couldn’t a pagan say the exact same thing about Christianity that you said about Paganism when it comes to worship?

You see I’m an atheist, I view theistic paganism and Christianity the same way, but you on the other hand think Christianity is special when it comes to worship. Do you actually believe people believed the statue of Zeus was Zeus incarnate? 
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Perhaps on a superficial surface level, they might look similar, but they are very different. Certainly, there were some "pagan" Greek philosophers who were aware of God, and even made Him the focus of their worship. Most people have heard of Socrates, so he is a good example. This was a man who clearly valued The Truth above all things. I wouldn't call him a pagan.

The language of Greek philosophy in particular has been utilized by the church to more precisely formulate its doctrine.