-->
@disgusted
Then I don't believe whatever god you are talking about, because it is not my God.
Christmas, The Contrived Sham to Hide Our True Roots... Paganism.
Posts
Total:
93
-->
@Mopac
I am most definitely talking about your god.
It is the creation of primitive ignorant superstitious savages.
-->
@Reece101
The Eternal Way existed before the the pagans. When the pagans deviated from The Eternal Way, apostles were sent to them to remind them of the Gospel of Salvation.
True Religion is not an invention of men, but a synergia with Divine Truth.
-->
@Mopac
To me it just sounds like you’re skipping your meds. I’m being honest.
-->
@Mopac
True Religion is not an invention of men,
Of course it is. There is nothing else that can invent it, all religions and there gods are the creation of humans. That includes yours.
-->
@Reece101
The Way has always been established for us to walk in from the beginning.
Other ways are established by men or circumstance.
True religion is to walk in The Way. That is, to discern the wisdom of God and to abide in it.
-->
@Mopac
The Way has always been established for us to walk in from the beginning.
Do you mean for hundreds of thousands of years, or do you mean from the Garden of Eden where the Tree of Knowledge was conveniently placed by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent god? Are you a determinist?
-->
@Mopac
The Eternal Way existed before the the pagans
Supply evidence in support of this absurd claim.
-->
@Reece101
Before even the very first creation, The Way was established, and by it all things were made.
Walking in The Way requires a cooperation, so choice is involved necessarily.
-->
@Reece101
Luciferianism like Christianity has various doctrines and a lot of dogma surrounding it.
No, Luciferianism is a perversion of Christianity. Lucifer is a perversion of the Christian God. It's not simply two diametrically opposed disciplines.
That being said Paganism is older than Christianity.
As far as State sponsored religions, yes Paganism is "older."
Keep in mind many of the original archetypical stories aren’t pagan.What do you mean by access?
Exactly as I stated above: you're assuming that because the monarchs sponsored and sanctioned Paganism (and they still do) that access to the information which would bring Christianity into prominence (and later Catholicism after Constantine) must have been acquired at or some time after. But it was always there. The earliest "religions" were monotheistic, or at the very least "henotheistic." And polytheism (a.k.a. Paganism) derived from the Babylonian/Sumerian and Kemetic practices--most notably through postdiluvian figure, Ham.
-->
@Athias
I would like to correct you there, Catholicism is Christianity. The Church referred to itself as Catholic centuries before Christianity was legal in Rome.
-->
@Mopac
I would like to correct you there, Catholicism is Christianity. The Church referred to itself as Catholic centuries before Christianity was legal in Rome.
No, Catholicism is Paganism. Once again, I'm making no reference to state-sponsored Christianity. Catholicism and its practices and traditions are pagan, some of which I've already listed. And this was purposefully done by Emperor Constantine who was a student of the Kemetic disciplines. It's possible that Catholicism may at one point have been considered "Christian." After all, Luciferianism is a perversion of Christianity, and Catholicism is Luciferian (e.g. the rosary cross actually is a "T" denoting the cross of Tammuz, which in its early incarnations had a vaginal likeness constructed on top of it.) Not to mention, the statues in their Cathedrals. Or the obelisk in Vatican City which represents the severed penis of Asar (a.k.a. Osiris, a.k.a. Cronus, a.k.a. Saturn.)
-->
@Athias
I am an Orthodox Catholic, technically we consider The Church of Rome to be in schism.
But we certainly do not practice idolatry. If you think our use of images is idolatry, I suggest you look into the iconoclast controversy and the 7th ecumenical council. I also recommend St John of Damascus' book of the use of holy images.
We don't pryay the rosary, but prayer ropes are not uncommon. The prayer we say is a bit simpler. "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner." The intent of the practice is to train in unceasing prayer, and inner hesychism(or stillness) of the heart and mind. The intent is to bring one closer to God, not farther away through idolatry.
Before Constantine ever lived, The Church referred to itself as Catholic, and the bishops who took part at the first council of Nicea were all legitimate leaders of the church. It is a protestant accusation against the church that it somehow was corrupted post-Constantine. It is not true, however, and it stands to reason that such an accusation is only leveled against the church to justify the existence of thousands of protestant denominations that are not in communion with The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Whether this accusation is made in innocence or not, it is still inaccurate.
-->
@Mopac
I am an Orthodox Catholic, technically we consider The Church of Rome to be in schism.
If your representation of Orthodox Catholicism is as you claim, then the Church of Rome should be more than just "in schism." As I stated before, Catholicism is a perversion, and purposefully so.
But we certainly do not practice idolatry.
It's not simply idolatry; it's practices, and customs, and yes even clothing. Even their veneration of females a la "Virgin Mary" is in reference to the "mother goddess," Isis. Images are only the start of it.
Before Constantine ever lived, The Church referred to itself as Catholic,
My argument isn't that Catholicism originated with Constantine. My argument is that Constantine was an adherent to the Babylonian and Kemetic mysteries and that he combined/disguised the pagan practices with Christianity to pervert it--what we now know to be modern Catholicism.
It is a protestant accusation against the church that it somehow was corrupted post-Constantine. It is not true, however, and it stands to reason that such an accusation is only leveled against the church to justify the existence of thousands of protestant denominations that are not in communion with The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.Whether this accusation is made in innocence or not, it is still inaccurate.
I am not protestant. I was never raised protestant. I'm not religious at all. I just do a lot of reading. But before I move forward with this, in what ways do you as an Orthodox Catholic differ from Roman Catholics? I'd rather receive the information from an adherent directly. And please, be as extensive as necessary.
-->
@Mopac
Before even the very first creation, The Way was established, and by it all things were made.
“The Way” requires spacetime.
Walking in The Way requires a cooperation, so choice is involved necessarily.
Try to look at free will and determinism more deeper. Not just at a superficial level, but physics itself.
Choice is merely the ability to evaluate potential possibility and decide, which we’re all capable of to one degree or another. It has no bearing on free will and determinism at the deeper level.
-->
@Reece101
“The Way” requires spacetime.
That would be covered by the human nature aspect of the divine hypostasis of The Son.
Try to look at free will and determinism more deeper. Not just at a superficial level, but physics itself.Choice is merely the ability to evaluate potential possibility and decide, which we’re all capable of to one degree or another. It has no bearing on free will and determinism at the deeper level.
Determinism is a way that people can avoid responsibility for their own actions by blaming God for making them a terrible person. That might seem to be a crass way of putting it, but that is the implication. God made me do it!
As far as our relationship with God is concerned, a humble and contrite heart is what is proper. Whether we truly have free will or not, we certainly have the experience of free will. That being the case, it makes no sense to operate as if one had no free will. Determinism, if a reality at all, would certainly be classified as an ignoble truth, because it serves absolutely no benefit to the person who believes it, and is in fact harmful. It is harmful because one cannot repent if they don't take responsibility for their choices.
-->
@Athias
No, Luciferianism is a perversion of Christianity. Lucifer is a perversion of the Christian God. It's not simply two diametrically opposed disciplines.
Like Christianity is a perversion of many other religions it took stories from.
As far as State sponsored religions, yes Paganism is "older."
As far as state sponsored goes, what are you referring to? Paganism is/was very diverse, both state sponsored and not.
It isn’t like Christianity existed for hundreds of thousands of years before it became the norm/state sponsored.
Exactly as I stated above: you're assuming that because the monarchs sponsored and sanctioned Paganism (and they still do) that access to the information which would bring Christianity into prominence (and later Catholicism after Constantine) must have been acquired at or some time after. But it was always there. The earliest "religions" were monotheistic, or at the very least "henotheistic." And polytheism (a.k.a. Paganism) derived from the Babylonian/Sumerian and Kemetic practices--most notably through postdiluvian figure, Ham.
Sounds like you’re going into conspiracy territory about paganism being state sponsored and all that.
Postdiluvian figures, are you serious? The flood is a made up story. It was not an historical event. Don’t treat it as if it is one.
If your representation of Orthodox Catholicism is as you claim, then the Church of Rome should be more than just "in schism." As I stated before, Catholicism is a perversion, and purposefully so.
Rome is in schism BECAUSE of the fact they perverted the faith.
It's not simply idolatry; it's practices, and customs, and yes even clothing. Even their veneration of females a la "Virgin Mary" is in reference to the "mother goddess," Isis. Images are only the start of it.
I am sure you don't understand our practices, but I'd be happy to explain any for you.
We Do not worship Mary as God. She is a creature. What makes her special is that besides beimg a shining example of saintliness for women as well as men, Jesus Christ received His flesh from her body.
We don't have many official doctrines concerning Mary. Other than she was a virgin before, during, and after Jesus' birth, and that she can rightly be called Theotokos or mother of God because she did in fact give birth to God in the flesh, a did raise Him as a mother.
I am not protestant. I was never raised protestant. I'm not religious at all. I just do a lot of reading. But before I move forward with this, in what ways do you as an Orthodox Catholic differ from Roman Catholics? I'd rather receive the information from an adherent directly. And please, be as extensive as necessary.
I made a fairly lengthy post near the start of this here topic...
... that gives a rough outine of some major differences. Are there more? Probably. Regardless, I don't want anyone to take anything I say that may be a tad polemical to justify mistreatment of anyone. An Orthodox Christian is called to love everyone, even, maybe especially those who persecute us. Besides, there many pious Roman Catholics out there. We should treat eachother with love and respect.
-->
@Mopac
Explain the crazy.That would be covered by the human nature aspect of the divine hypostasis of The Son.
Determinism is a way that people can avoid responsibility for their own actions by blaming God for making them a terrible person. That might seem to be a crass way of putting it, but that is the implication. God made me do it!As far as our relationship with God is concerned, a humble and contrite heart is what is proper. Whether we truly have free will or not, we certainly have the experience of free will. That being the case, it makes no sense to operate as if one had no free will. Determinism, if a reality at all, would certainly be classified as an ignoble truth, because it serves absolutely no benefit to the person who believes it, and is in fact harmful. It is harmful because one cannot repent if they don't take responsibility for their choices.
With great power comes great responsibility, with absolute power comes absolute responsibility. Do you agree?
That would be covered by the human nature aspect of the divine hypostasis of The Son.Explain the crazy
If you have already made your mind up that it is crazy, why should I waste the effort to facilitate your enlightenment? After all, you know better.
But let it be apparent that there is a great deal more going on with us than what meets the eye. Much could be learned if I was simply believed, rather than dismissed and not taken seriously. If I was believed, my faith would be understood by now. Because no one believes, but instead thinks "No, it can't possibly be what he is saying, because that isn't what I see."
Without faith you will never see. I speak plainly about things and they are taken as enigmas. I can't be any more lucid.
You won't believe me when I speak plainly, and now you want me to reveal mystagogical things to you?
Nevertheless, the answer to your question has everything to do with who The Son is. Namely, God becoming flesh and dwelling among us. That God didn't just tune a clockwork universe and run off. Rather, God is here with us, nearer even than our blood, and is witnessed through the things that are made.
-->
@Reece101
With great power comes great responsibility, with absolute power comes absolute responsibility. Do you agree?
Those who are faithful with little will be entrusted with much.
-->
@Reece101
Like Christianity is a perversion of many other religions it took stories from.
How has Christianity "perverted" the many other religions from which you allege it has taken stories? Once again, state sponsored Christianity--particularly Catholicism--is a guise for pagan practices.
As far as state sponsored goes, what are you referring to? Paganism is/was very diverse, both state sponsored and not.It isn’t like Christianity existed for hundreds of thousands of years before it became the norm/state sponsored.
Paganism isn't diverse; it's all either re-tellings or reproductions of the divine triad of ancient Kemetic mythology (i.e. P'tah (father) Sekhmet/Bast (mother) and Nefertem (son)) And Kemetic mythology stems from Babylonian a.k.a. Sumerian mythology: Ba'al, Inanna/Ishtar, and Tammuz/Dumuzi.)
Side Note: For those of you who've seen the Marvel cinematic hit, "Black Panther," they made a reference to Bast (aka Bastet) as the "panther goddess." The fictional Utopia, "Wakanda" is a reference to ancient Kemet. The Marvel Universe itself is a retelling of pagan mythologies--particularly the conflict between the Olympians (Avengers) and the Titans (Thanos.)
And you said that Christianity didn't exist for hundreds of years before it became state-sponsored--care to provide substance/support to this claim? (Note: by the time it was sponsored by the state, it was no longer "Christianity.")
Sounds like you’re going into conspiracy territory about paganism being state sponsored and all that.
"Sounds like" is an impression, and impressions aren't arguments. Conspiracy delineates a crime. But if you want me to make clear that I'm suggesting that the Earth's "elite" practice Pagan religions, particularly Luciferian, then yes, that's exactly my suggestion. Take the U.S. the eye of Horus is on legal tender, particularly, Fiat. Now the "conspiracy theorists" would associate that eye with the "Illuminati." But it's really in reference to Luciferianism.
Postdiluvian figures, are you serious?
Yes, I'm serious. Do you have a counterargument?
The flood is a made up story. It was not an historical event.
Support this.
Don’t treat it as if it is one.
Until you convince me otherwise, I will continue to treat as a "historical event."
-->
@Mopac
God is here with us, nearer even than our blood, and is witnessed through the things that are made.
That's a claim that cannot be substantiated.
-->
@Mopac
Rome is in schism BECAUSE of the fact they perverted the faith.
We'll see how sincere this schism is as we continue.
I am sure you don't understand our practices, but I'd be happy to explain any for you.We Do not worship Mary as God. She is a creature. What makes her special is that besides beimg a shining example of saintliness for women as well as men, Jesus Christ received His flesh from her body.We don't have many official doctrines concerning Mary. Other than she was a virgin before, during, and after Jesus' birth, and that she can rightly be called Theotokos or mother of God because she did in fact give birth to God in the flesh, a did raise Him as a mother.
I made a fairly lengthy post near the start of this here topic...... that gives a rough outine of some major differences. Are there more? Probably. Regardless, I don't want anyone to take anything I say that may be a tad polemical to justify mistreatment of anyone. An Orthodox Christian is called to love everyone, even, maybe especially those who persecute us. Besides, there many pious Roman Catholics out there. We should treat eachother with love and respect.
I'll get to the point. I wasn't seeking a particular explanation on your interpretation and your approaches. The first thing I confirmed is that you believe in the immaculate conception. So then I'll just ask:
Do you adhere to baptism?
Do you partake in Holy Communion?
Are your priests/bishops/patriarchs celibate?
Are the nuns celibate?
Do you pray to Mary?
Do your bishops carry the crossiers, a.k.a. The Lituus staffs, a.k.a. the crooked wands?
Do they wear the cross?
Do you celebrate Christmas?
Do you celebrate Easter, particularly Easter Sunday?
I'm not scrutinizing Catholicism to demonize it. Far from it actually. I suspect your everyday Catholic doesn't know the origin of the rituals and customs his Church has him or her practice.
Until you convince me otherwise, I will continue to treat as a "historical event."
It would seem that your claim to reading a lot is not truthful, very little reading is required to know that "the flood" is not a historical event but a myth.
-->
@Athias
I'll get to the point. I wasn't seeking a particular explanation on your interpretation and your approaches. The first thing I confirmed is that you believe in the immaculate conception.
The immaculate conception is a doctrine concerning Mary being born perfect and without sin. It is actually a doctrine that The Roman Catholic Church came up with as a solution to one of their deviations from Orthodoxy.
The deviation being that they believe that humanity inherited the guilt of the sins commited in the.garden of Eden. The Orthodox position is actually that we inherited the mess caused from it, not the guilt.
We do not understand original sin the same way.
So no, actually neither I or the Orthodox Church accepts the doctrine of the immaculate conception. Mary was a regular woman just like anyone else, particularly pious surely. The thing that makes her stick out is her relationship to Jesus. As The Church is the body of Christ, in a way, Mary is seen as our mother. When we remember the saints during our liturgy we always make sure to mention Mary first. We certainly do not make her out to be God.
Do you adhere to baptism?
From the Nicene-Constantinople creed..
"We acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins."
Do you partake in Holy Communion?
It is the high point and climax of our liturgy. It is an institution established by Christ himself and faithfully preserved by his apostolic church.
Are your priests/bishops/patriarchs celibate?
Most priests(more accurately they are referred to as presbyters, because technically we are a nation of priests)are married. The preference is actually for presbyters to be married. Bishops tend to be selected among monastics or presbyters who outlived their wives. That is the preference.
There have always been exceptions, but they wouldn't be the norm.
Are the nuns celibate?
Of course! A nun is a female monastic. Monastics are always celibate. Some people are called to this particular way of life. For those who are not, marriage is the recommended alternative.
Do you pray to Mary?
There was this one wedding feast Jesus and Mary went to where the wine ran out. People started complaining about the lack of wine. Noticing this, Mary brought this matter to Jesus. That day, He turned water into wine.
In a great way, that is what praying to Mary is like in Orthodoxy.
Again, it is really about Jesus.
Do your bishops carry the crossiers, a.k.a. The Lituus staffs, a.k.a. the crooked wands
Yes, Bishops have crosiers. They are usually stylized to represent the serpent staff Moses lifted in the wilderness, which in itself typified Christ being raised up on the cross.
Sometimes they are also stylized as the Greek letter tau, which resembles some crosses that Romans used for execution.
Do they wear the cross?
More accurately, they wear crucifixes. The cross is not empty.
Do you celebrate Christmas?
We also call it the feast of the nativity.
Do you celebrate Easter, particularly Easter Sunday?
We call it Pascha or passover but yeah, we celebrate Easter. It is always on a Sunday. Pascha is a big deal to us, we go all out. It is easily our biggest feast day.
I'm not scrutinizing Catholicism to demonize it. Far from it actually. I suspect your everyday Catholic doesn't know the origin of the rituals and customs his Church has him or her practice.
I don't think most so called "gnostics" or "neognostics" do either, so if I were you I wouldn't get my information from them. Understand that their only intention is to undermine the faith and cast doubt. They think they are gnostics, but epignosis is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. They do not truly know as they make pretense.
-->
@Athias
Truthfully, a lot of the things we do liturgically are carry overs from Jewish worship in the temple and in the synagogues.
-->
@Athias
*sigh* read what I’ve said again. You cherry pick what I say.
When I say “hundreds of thousands” you say “hundreds”.
When I say “norm/state sponsored” you say “state sponsored”.
Stop picking the low hanging fruit and actually reply to me in context.
When you said “that’s not an argument”, it wasn’t meant to be one.
I can reply to every single thing you say, but what’s the point if you’ll just twist my replies.
-->
@Mopac
Those who are faithful with little will be entrusted with much.
When?
-->
@disgusted
Perhaps the best way for you to find out would be to practice faithfulness.