Bloodline Day Phase 1

Author: Lunatic

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#211
Buddamoose
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@Vaarka
Who gives a shit if you're "deleting a redundant post" or "just fixing a typo"? You shouldn't do it. There's no way of knowing, after all, if the post you sent me had some sort of scum tell, and you realized and edited or deleted it. 

So because there is no way of knowing it definitively, it automatically makes it evidence of guilt? Interesting 

 The entire point of players being prohibited from editing posts is to prevent that

There are plenty of behaviors that facially appear suspicious but ultimately are not indicative of affiliation in and of themselves. Such as advocacy for mass claiming. Should we make a rule against advocating for mass claims because it appears suspicious? 
#212
Buddamoose
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What about lying? Should we make a rule against town players lying because lying is inherently suspicious? 
#213
Vaarka
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@Buddamoose
Who gives a shit if you're "deleting a redundant post" or "just fixing a typo"? You shouldn't do it. There's no way of knowing, after all, if the post you sent me had some sort of scum tell, and you realized and edited or deleted it. 

So because there is no way of knowing it definitively, it automatically makes it evidence of guilt? Interesting 
It shouldn't be "evidence of guilt", it should be "you're cheating, and I'm gonna modkill you for it". 

 The entire point of players being prohibited from editing posts is to prevent that

There are plenty of behaviors that facially appear suspicious but ultimately are not indicative of affiliation in and of themselves. Such as advocacy for mass claiming. Should we make a rule against advocating for mass claims because it appears suspicious? 

You are editing your own post. That's an action, not a behavior. My point isn't that "oh my god you edited your post that's suspicious". My point is that "oh my god you edited your post, that's cheating and you need to be modkilled". 

You could literally post "I am mafia, here is my role, and my justification", and then edit it to say "Yeah that's sus, VTL [player]". Better yet, you could remove the post entirely, and no one would know unless they saw it before and then saw it disappear. Doing this is actually cheating, even if it's "not a rule". 
#214
Vaarka
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@Vader
This makes town very suspicious you in general.
lmao predicting budda and supa

#215
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@Vader
Also my best friend is Nolan and John is my dad and his relationship has been shaky.\

It seems to be leading for me to find scum in John

VTL RM

how'd you reach this conclusion? You got any other reason aside from theme?
#216
Vaarka
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@Greyparrot
Quit bandwagoning so much
#217
RationalMadman
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@Vaarka
If you would rather lynch unccd Sally Rayburn than nobody, you're either mafia or mentally challenged.
#218
RationalMadman
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You can delete aapost shortly after posting it and hide that you edit it by posting the edited one.
#219
Vaarka
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@Greyparrot
I'm starting to think there is at least one probable scum in the 4 that voted for RM....

I'm leaning toward either Drafter or Supa.

post something useful
#220
RationalMadman
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@Danielle
I'm clear.
#221
Vaarka
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@RationalMadman
If you would rather lynch unccd Sally Rayburn than nobody, you're either mafia or mentally challenged.
I've mostly skipped all of your theme analysis because I don't give a shit about theme. Besides, I was saying I'd rather lynch someone over no one. 

Unless it's Budda. No matter your stance on him, we don't lynch him until DP3 if at all. If by DP3 he is confirmed, then he lives. If not, then we insta-lynch him. If he dies before DP3, it won't be from a lynch or from a townie's action. 
#222
RationalMadman
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@Buddamoose
You're voting me because?
#223
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@Vaarka
You should perhaps give a shit about theme if you give a shit about winning?
#224
RationalMadman
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Sally is town because of how she ends up being the only family member to admit her sins and do right by Danny. This is what I believe and what TUF agreed by telling me that her outing it is the key to why she is sided with town.

#225
RationalMadman
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Budda you are fake as fuck one minute defending me next lynching me.
#226
RationalMadman
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Everyone out or get lynched. I don't deserve to be
bullied into outing any less than you.
#227
RationalMadman
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Less or more*
#228
Vaarka
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@RationalMadman
You should perhaps give a shit about theme if you give a shit about winning?
I'll give a shit about theme when we can figure out what the theme is based on

I'm not talking about the show, I'm talking about what separates town/mafia
#229
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@Vaarka
How is the show not the theme?
#230
Vaarka
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@RationalMadman
How is the show not the theme?
I meant "not the show" when I said "what the theme is based on". It's based on the show, but what I meant is I'll care when we've got actual evidence that points towards someone being scum based on their character. 

#231
drafterman
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Regarding RM's claim that Sally is the main character, I can't tell if this is a legit slip or a literal Freudian slip in the sense that RM thinks he's the main character in everyone's real lives. I can see reading that someone is a "matriarch" and then thinking that they are a, if not the, main character.

If this is a show that toys around with no really good or bad characters, then a character that realizes their previous mistakes is about as good/town as we're going to get.

Right now my main FOS is Supa.
#232
Buddamoose
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@RationalMadman
Sally is town because of how she ends up being the only family member to admit her sins and do right by Danny

Ok, and do you have evidence for this? Either I've missed it in my research or is hasn't been there. 

Budda you are fake as fuck one minute defending me next lynching me.

You act like it's for no reason. If it was for no reason then sure, that'd be fake. But I evidenced exactly why I was FOS'ing you. Either show it's false, in which case, that would be grounds to reconsider from what I've found thus far .

"Fake" doesn't just mean switching on reads. Switching or evolution of reads happens naturally all the time as more evidence is produced/discovered... 
#233
Buddamoose
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@drafterman
I can see reading that someone is a "matriarch" and then thinking that they are a, if not the, main character

This is true, but aren't you ignoring that Rational has extensive knowledge of the show? He should know she's not the "main character" and yet did not correct it and went along with it. 

I have yet to see where Sally admits her misdeeds and "comes clean". If Rational can evidence that she does, I would def agree with the following 

If this is a show that toys around with no really good or bad characters, then a character that realizes their previous mistakes is about as good/town as we're going to get.

#234
drafterman
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@Buddamoose
Well, I don't know about the show and haven't had time to do research. So FMPOV it's basically me taking your word over his over an interpretation of a show I know nothing about and how that might apply to character assignment in this game.

Again, I don't put it past RM to have claimed that any character assigned to him is the main character simply because it was assigned to RM.
#235
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@drafterman
So FMPOV it's basically me taking your word over his over an interpretation of a show I know nothing about

I included a source for my analysis of what I'd found, no? 
#236
Buddamoose
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@Vaarka
Doing this is actually cheating, even if it's "not a rule". 
And why would that be the case? What unfair advantage does editing or deleting posts afford that anyone else does not otherwise possess? Fair being, treating someone in a manner that is right or reasonable and treating people equally. 

Furthermore how does the following afford an unfair advantage? 

You could literally post "I am mafia, here is my role, and my justification", and then edit it to say "Yeah that's sus, VTL [player]". Better yet, you could remove the post entirely, and no one would know unless they saw it before and then saw it disappear

Considering that the original act of posting the entire PM regardless of motive, is unfair to the rest of those a part of that person's affiliation, and clearly unfairly disadvantages them, editing and/or deleting posts would quite actually be countering that unfair result in this circumstance returning back to the status quo of the player not violating a standard rule of not posting your pm, and/or game-throwing. 

Look, if editing and deleting posts was either only able to be done by one side, or could be done at anytime and was not otherwise limited to a 15 minute time frame, I would agree that post editing and deletion should be outright banned. But it's not, and I fail to see how it should as fmpov it doesn't unfairly disadvantages anyone or treat anyone unequally as we all have the ability to do so and can have realistic and/or reasonable reasons for doing so regardless of affiliation. 


#237
Buddamoose
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So FMPOV it's basically me taking your word over his over an interpretation of a show I know nothing about and how that might apply to character assignment in this game.

However, I would agree ultimately it's an interpretation. Im suspicious of how Rational, who has knowledge of the show, claimed he was uncc'd main character. When clearly she is not. Clearly misleading, and though being misleading doesnt make him scum, it does make him suspect fmpov.

It's important to note that if he can produce evidence of Sally coming clean that I could have missed, then he returns back to leaning town because his view here
 
 I am the only family member who ends up helping Danny's story of being beaten to a pulp get out.

Could result in a view that the person is a main character by virtue of coming clean about her faults and misdeeds in a family that appears from what I've read to be riddled with them. 

I got it:

After Season 2 made it very clear to Sally that her children were morally unkempt reflections of her fractured history with Robert, the queen matriarch finally toppled her own throne in an emotional blaze of glory. Seriously, Sissy Spacek was to be marveled at, particularly as a drunk and callously hateful Sally scathingly indicting John for Sarah's death. While there are absolutely untold skeletons left in her closet, Sally finally made public the much-ballyhooed story of Robert beating a teenage Danny


Seriously had to go 3 pages in for this xD.

Unvote VTL Hammer


#238
Vaarka
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@Buddamoose
And why would that be the case? What unfair advantage does editing or deleting posts afford that anyone else does not otherwise possess? Fair being, treating someone in a manner that is right or reasonable and treating people equally. 

Furthermore how does the following afford an unfair advantage? 

If someone is allowed to kill you, then you're allowed to kill them. That's basically your line of thinking. 

Shut up about "advantages" and shit. Everyone can do it, but that doesn't mean they should. You're saying that "everyone is allowed to do it, so it's fine". No it's not. That's not how this works. What I'm saying is that you should not be able to edit or delete posts at all. It's the mentality of "either everyone can do it, or no one can do it", and I'm saying no one can do it. 

Considering that the original act of posting the entire PM regardless of motive, is unfair to the rest of those a part of that person's affiliation, and clearly unfairly disadvantages them, editing and/or deleting posts would quite actually be countering that unfair result in this circumstance returning back to the status quo of the player not violating a standard rule of not posting your pm, and/or game-throwing. 

Look, if editing and deleting posts was either only able to be done by one side, or could be done at anytime and was not otherwise limited to a 15 minute time frame, I would agree that post editing and deletion should be outright banned. But it's not, and I fail to see how it should as fmpov it doesn't unfairly disadvantages anyone or treat anyone unequally as we all have the ability to do so and can have realistic and/or reasonable reasons for doing so regardless of affiliation. 
How about no one is allowed to do it period? Who cares about "oh both can do it and it only lasts for a few minutes so it's fine"? Logically, it shouldn't be fine. Realistically, it shouldn't be fine. This is a game where once a post exists, it should stay in existence, and it shouldn't change. 

If someone claims "I am [role]" and someone else says "haha get cc'd, I'm [same role]", the first person has a chance to edit they're post to something else and say "wtf are you talking about I'm [different role]". Your line of reasoning is that this is okay because "the second person could just change their post to the same role that person one changed it to and it would have the same effect.

If you truly think that editing or deleting posts in a mafia game are okay, then you're retarded
#239
Buddamoose
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@Vaarka
If you truly think that editing or deleting posts in a mafia game are okay, then you're retarded

Says the guy not supplying a reason why it shouldn't be. You say it's logical, ok, show the logic then. As I said, illustrate how it affords an unfair advantage. That's the primary motive behind cheating, indeed that's really the primary basis for things being cheating or not. 

Your line of reasoning is that this is okay because "the second person could just change their post to the same role that person one changed it to and it would have the same effect

That's not my line of reasoning at all. What would even lead you to think that? My points is clearly that editing or deleting posts does not afford an unfair advantage to one aide or another. 

Claims of  "This is a game where once a post exists, it should stay in existence, and it shouldn't change." 

Why? The concern is in it affording an unfair and unequal advantage. It does not, in fact it can otherwise correct what would be unfair advantage. 

How is it fair to his teammates in your hypothetical that the player did that? On top of that, it affords town an unfair advantage, it doesn't disadvantage them. Unless you are willing to posit that lynching scum doesn't benefit town and harm mafia? Because that's the only way your example at all would illustrate it provides an unfair and/or unequal advantage. 
#240
Buddamoose
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@Vaarka
I'm starting to think there is at least one probable scum in the 4 that voted for RM....

I'm leaning toward either Drafter or Supa.
Vaarka: Post something useful

How about you do the same? Because if that is not useful then the following is the same

- "Quit bandwagoning so much"

- "LMAO predicting budda and Sup

- "people who use emojis in their posts unironically lose credibility." (Why? 😂) Oh cause "you don't like seeing them." Whether or not you like them doesn't matter, imagine that.

- meta argument regarding whether or not something constitutes aa cheating(tangential to the game and not indicative of affiliation. So far on the site two people have edited posts in game. Rational and I. Rational was town, at endgame it will be clear I am too. That's 2 townies committing the act, 0 mafia. 

It'd be highly lacking in logic to hold the act of editing or deleting is in itself indicative of affiliation. 

So come on Mr "I don't give a crap about theme". Let's see some behavioral analyisis. Who is town, who is scum, who is null? For what reasons are they as such? Why are those reasons indicative of either affiliation? 

Aka, let's see something useful.