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@ILikePie5
Thanks. I've been doing well.
Why Do Evangelicals Follow Trump?
Posts
Total:
126
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@lady3keys
Probably because they would care more about the morality of the policies more than the politicians themselves.
If Gandhi ran for office on a genocide platform, I don't think they would care much about his peaceful protests from the past.
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@bmdrocks21
Didn't the Pope say at one point that the USA should be obligated to support the rest of the world?
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@Greyparrot
Idk. Are you talking about Francis?
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@bmdrocks21
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
A true Christian would not vote for anyone but God.
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@zedvictor4
Because they are as deluded and cynical as he is....Simple.
LOL. But I really don't want to just dismissively say that the other side is simply deluded. I'm sure people against Trump are deluded and cynical on some points too. I really just want to understand the other side.
I am a registered Independent. I have always been able to see the merits of both sides and have voted for both republicans and democrats; until now, until Trump. I am simply having a hard time understanding MAGA fervor. Other than a great slogan, the rest of his charm eludes me.
Yes he is charismatic. Yes he can whip a crowd into a lather. But he is also practically illiterate. He seems to lie pathologically. He is petty and often ridiculous. He is frequently mean, even cruel (just ask his sister - lol). More importantly, he defies the constitution, abuses his pardon power, has more convicted presidential aides (criminals) than any other president in history and turns "blatant disregard of safety", in a pandemic no less, into a political statement, a political weapon. He literally told everyone who worked for him to ignore congressional summons during his impeachment.
He fires any Justice Department head who even attempts to be objective, despite the fact that the Justice Dept. is supposed to be a "Separate But Equal" branch of government. That means that AG Barr is appointed by, but not answerable to, the President. He is supposed to answer to the People . But Trump's followers seem to see good in him and his policies; and this, to me, seems to defy logic (again, excluding the perceived good in abortion rights).
Uh oh, I'm rambling. I'm sooooo sorry. It just seems like his stance on abortion makes evangelicals say that everything else is OKAY.
What did Trump say?
He said he could "stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody" and still retain all his supporters. That is why I am so confused.
Because the Democratic Party is against their religion. Donald Trump has done nothing to curb religion, Democrats actively had. The question you’re asking is should you support an immoral man who will protect religion or a moral man who won’t. The answer is clear.
Democrats ferociously believe in, and defend, religious freedom. They just also believe in the right "not to believe". Just as you should not force your religion on another of a different religion. You shouldn't be able to force religion on those who don't believe in God at all. That is their right.
More specifically, Biden is more consistently faithful than trump ever was, ever has been, or ever will be. His only crime, for most Christians, is that he is pro-choice.
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@bmdrocks21
Probably because they would care more about the morality of the policies more than the politicians themselves.If Gandhi ran for office on a genocide platform, I don't think they would care much about his peaceful protests from the past.
Okay, the morality of his policies:
If someone ran on a platform of ripping children from their parents simply because they were trying to find a better life, and then putting them in locked mass-occupancy detention centers, would they still vote for him? Doesn't the Bible teach about "what you have done unto the least of these"? What about DACA? A wall? Really? That does not seem very Christ-like to me. What about stopping aid to California a couple years ago simply because he didn't like the Governor? Were those people not in need despite their governor? What about turning away hurricane survivors in their hour of need? What about allowing billionaires to pay absolutely NO TAXES, while the "poor in Christ" can barely survive? The list goes on and on and on . . . .
Are all of these just "okay", because he has an anti-abortion policy?
David French of The Dispatch and formerly of National Review has written some articles on why evangelicals support Trump (as well as some on why he doesn't). You can look those up if you want.
These are great resources. Thanks! I'm still reading through them . . . more to come.
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@lady3keys
He said he could "stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody" and still retain all his supporters. That is why I am so confused.
If he shot an Antifa terrorist and protected a victim on 5th Avenue, I would support that.
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@SirAnonymous
I sort of messed up the reply function here by cutting, pasting and sending without hitting the reply button. Sorry. Still a very new, newbie.
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@lady3keys
Yep. I get where you're coming from.
Why after four years of personal incompetence is he still President?
Or perhaps more importantly, why after four years do the American people put up with such incompetence and why are they likely to vote him in again?
Well, I think it's a lot to do with the innate corruptibility of the system, which is driven by the wants of the ego....Not just Trump's ego, but ego from the top down.
And why is Trump where he is and why do any Presidents get where they get?....Well, that's because they pay to get there and they pay to stretch the system to the limits of it's corruptibility.....And competence is not really a necessary requirement of the Presidential job.....Bizarrely, it's the most important job of all and yet the only necessary qualifications required are plenty of money and charisma....Try getting a cleaning job if you haven't got a mop certificate.
And who's going to vote for a nerd with a masters degree in politics and sociology......Boring.
And in reality the day to day lives of ordinary Americans, actually changes very little. So the whole Political thing is never anything other than media generated entertainment.
And it's like a football game, you pick your side, blue or red, and stick with it for life.
How many people consider things as you and I do?.....Hopefully enough to make a difference.....Though, there's the corruptibility of the system and the habitual blinkeredness of the ordinary American to overcome first.
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@lady3keys
No problem.
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@lady3keys
There were two of those that he actually ran on: a wall and anti-DACA.
Is it good and just to allow an illegal serf class to come here and work for slave wages, while simultaneously stealing jobs, reducing wages, and worsening working conditions for domestic workers? No, I'd argue that isn't very moral, so let's get a wall to stop illegal immigration.
DACA: A bunch of criminals came over here with their kids. Since those kids have no right to be here at all, send them and their parents back. We are a country, and countries have laws. If you are against rule of law, perhaps you would be better suited living in a Latin American or African country.
I could come up with a bunch of bad policies Biden supported if you would like.
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@SirAnonymous
I can't support someone who's been accused of sexual assault by dozens of women or who boasts on a live camera about groping women.
the reality is you have a choice of that or voting for late term abortions, one of the most "progressive" candidates for abortions, pick your poison. which is worse in your mind?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
The reality is that I don't have to vote for either one. Also, according to the data, the annual number of abortions isn't really affected by the president.
I don't disagree that Trump's policies are less bad than Biden's. However, there comes a point when less bad isn't good enough. Any candidate who has committed sexual assault isn't good enough, to severely understate the case.
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@SirAnonymous
I'm not saying either one is a wonderful choice and it is pick your poison. Nope you don't have to vote for either, but one of them will win. Biden has been accused and according to his V.P. pick they should be believed. Then there's all the child sniffing etc. Point is we are in an age of picking the lesser evil, that will not change, ever.
according to the data, the annual number of abortions isn't really affected by the president.
then they aren't really pro life and their 'faith/religious conviction' is greatly questioned. If you belong and believe in a church and they preach past and present that abortion is murder then either follow along or leave and find one who fits YOUR beliefs. Classic saints on Sunday and wilful sinners the rest of the days.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I'm not saying either one is a wonderful choice and it is pick your poison. Nope you don't have to vote for either, but one of them will win. Biden has been accused and according to his V.P. pick they should be believed. Then there's all the child sniffing etc. Point is we are in an age of picking the lesser evil, that will not change, ever.
I'm aware of that, but there has to come a point where the lesser evil is still too evil to vote for. Anyone who is guilty of sexual assault is well past that point.
then they aren't really pro life and their 'faith/religious conviction' is greatly questioned. If you belong and believe in a church and they preach past and present that abortion is murder then either follow along or leave and find one who fits YOUR beliefs. Classic saints on Sunday and wilful sinners the rest of the days.
I genuinely have no idea what you mean here. Who's they? The point I was making was that, statistically speaking, the abortion rate isn't really affected by who the president is. I can't figure out how your response relates to that point.
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@bmdrocks21
Is it good and just to allow an illegal serf class to come here and work for slave wages, while simultaneously stealing jobs, reducing wages, and worsening working conditions for domestic workers? No, I'd argue that isn't very moral, so let's get a wall to stop illegal immigration.
It's absolutely immoral to agree to a state-managed welfare system while not vetting the people who collect it by allowing anyone on the planet to partake in the taxpaid trust fund set aside explicitly for needy Americans.
Nobody agreed to pay for food and healthcare for the planet. America represents 4% of the world population. That's immoral to give the other 96% a pass for bad policies, lawlessness, and low economic freedom.
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@zedvictor4
why do any Presidents get where they get?....Well, that's because they pay to get there and they pay to stretch the system to the limits of it's corruptibility.....And competence is not really a necessary requirement of the Presidential job.....Bizarrely, it's the most important job of all and yet the only necessary qualifications required are plenty of money and charisma....Try getting a cleaning job if you haven't got a mop certificate.
Wow! I have been saying this for forever! There should be serious requirements to even be considered for a "possible" candidacy. And then, there should be a test as well (a political GPA maybe). :) If you cannot understand at least a bare minimum about the 3 branches and about foreign policy, well again, you shouldn't even be considered at all for a presidential candidacy. These 2 steps alone may have excluded Trump; who knows. But at the very least, the American public should be able to count on the fact that ALL of their candidates for president have met the established minimum qualifications. The public should only be presented with the candidates (on any kind of media), AFTER they have been vetted by a constitutionally aligned set of requirements and procedures.
I absolutely agree with you.
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@bmdrocks21
Is it good and just to allow an illegal serf class to come here and work for slave wages, while simultaneously stealing jobs, reducing wages, and worsening working conditions for domestic workers? No, I'd argue that isn't very moral, so let's get a wall to stop illegal immigration.
We came here as a serf class. And yes I agree that there shouldn't be illegal immigration. But I think there should be a clear path to it and this should be accomplished within the scope of a revamped immigration system, not a "wall of China". And second, we shouldn't treat them like "real" criminals, simply because they want a better life. As for wages, companies should offer the same wages for domestic or foreign-to-domestic employees. Again, this can be accomplished through changing our policies and laws.
Also, all I said about the wall, is that it didn't seem very "Christian" to me.
Matthew 25:42-43
"For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’
DACA: A bunch of criminals came over here with their kids. Since those kids have no right to be here at all, send them and their parents back. We are a country, and countries have laws. If you are against rule of law, perhaps you would be better suited living in a Latin American or African country.
Again, for the most part, THEY are not criminals. Like everything else, some are, most are not (just like the police). They are desperate. The wait is so long. They end up sneaking in. This may not be right, but I can't imagine not living in the USA, so I don't understand their suffering really. And DACA are mostly adults, who came in as children, and have been living here their whole lives! They are probably more American than anyone; they know suffering; they know compassion; they know hard work; they know the Constitution! Law is critically important, but so is compassionate inclusion.
And I'm not sure if I should dignify your "rule of law" slam or your racial suggestion that I am more suited for Latin America or an African country. I think you make yourself look bad enough all on your own with that one. I will say this. I believe in the Rule of Law so fervently, I think Trump should respect congressional subpoenas, honor the words in the Constitution to "hand over" his taxes, and not go against the emoluments clause to try and redirect golf tournaments, and G7 conferences, to his "personal" properties.
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@lady3keys
I think Trump should respect congressional subpoenas,
So you are saying Trump isn't allowed to follow the rule of law and ask the Courts for a decision?
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@lady3keys
We came here as a serf class.
Most of your forebearers came to a country that did not have a state-managed welfare system in place to be abused by illegal invaders.
The poem on the statue of liberty was written at a time in American history where people seeking citizenship had to prove they could take care of themselves, or go back where they came from.
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@Greyparrot
If he shot an Antifa terrorist and protected a victim on 5th Avenue, I would support that.
That is most definitely NOT what Trump said. And he would never "protect a victim". He would be taking cover, not helping others (even as a regular citizen). That is just who he is (self-interest first).
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@lady3keys
That is most definitely NOT what Trump said. And he would never "protect a victim". He would be taking cover, not helping others (even as a regular citizen). That is just who he is (self-interest first).
He did prison reform so this point is meaningless.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
The reality is you have a choice of that or voting for late term abortions, one of the most "progressive" candidates for abortions, pick your poison. which is worse in your mind?
First of all, almost no democrat believes in "late term abortions"; maybe Bernie Sanders, I don't know. Most abortion laws only allow abortion within the first 3 months. And Biden is faithfully catholic. He supports the "right to choose", not late term abortions (at least AFAIK). Biden is a moderate, not a "far-left progressive").
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@SirAnonymous
has there been a president who is fine with practically no limit abortions? I believe Biden/Harris would make abortion the least restrictive of any administration right? If that's true, and I believe it is then certainly would be affected by who is president wouldn't it? Let's say Trump wins again and gets to appoint a supreme court justice or 2 and these laws are revisited then again that could be a huge affect.
now what I have described can be permanent or at the very least decades potentially vs another 4 years of Trump. pick your poison.
I find late term abortions no matter the number far more objectionable to what Trump says and his past. Deaths are permanent, he is not.
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@lady3keys
Most abortion laws only allow abortion within the first 3 months. And Biden is faithfully catholic. He supports the "right to choose"
I was unaware the Pope condoned 1st trimester abortions.
"Is it licit to eliminate a human life to solve a problem?... Is it licit to hire a hitman to solve a problem?"
"It is not lawful. Never, ever eliminate a human life or hire a hitman to solve a problem,"
-Pope Francis
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@lady3keys
yeah? so he'd stop governor blackface since he's pro up until the very point of delivery? who else and how many aren't able to receive communion because of their stance?
remember how to eat an elephant.
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@SirAnonymous
However, there comes a point when less bad isn't good enough. Any candidate who has committed sexual assault isn't good enough, to severely understate the case.
Yes! Trump's sins and cruelty seem bottomless. I completely understand what you mean about abortions as well. Without clinics, girls seem to use unsanitary and life-threatening back rooms or self-mutilation to take care of their problems. Laws don't stop abortions, they just make them dangerous. Without good alternatives, the child still dies, and now, so could the mother (who is probably a child herself).