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Tradesecret
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@zedvictor4
Accepted theologians.
Which was exactly my point.

You presume to have a special club.

So Stephen asks direct questions of the Bible and you and your clubmates interpret or misinterpret biblical scripture to suit.

Stephen clearly studies biblical scripture as you do..... So you are both theologians but in different clubs.

Respect, not kudos....To you both.

Stephen asks  questions because he has an agenda not because he wants the truth   The questions he asks of the bible have been answered on many occasions. He just does not like the answers - so he tries to pose the same questions in different ways.  If he simply put his position across it would be one thing. But he does not - he just says that is not correct or he calls people liars. Or he says that the questions are not answered.


As for misinterpreting the scriptures - my point is the exact opposite. 

I do read and translate and interpret the Scriptures. My point is that the conclusions I draw are found within the same range as other people who are doing it as well. This is a safeguard against novel interpretations and ensures that a reasonably objective standard is being adhered too.  the methodology is sound. We start with the original texts and translate. We look at the contexts. We identify the particular difficulties in the language and the cultural idioms of the time.  And in doing so we are asking questions of the text. Asking questions is a good thing. But everyone asks questions depending upon where they are coming from and this is understandable.  Yet the same answers will fall within a particular range. 

Stephen asks questions - no problem with that. But he refuses to accept answers when they don't fit with his agenda.  It is a bit like Trump. He has his own agenda. When a media person asks a question - another person with an agenda - the way Trump answers and the way the media listens - are quite different.  What is required is other people who are objective in their views. 

If I answer a question because I have reached a certain conclusion. And then  go and find it fits within the range of conclusions that others have done in asking the same question - it can bring some satisfaction. If my conclusion is not within the same range - then I need to examine my methodology again. If It is correct and I am still not within range - then I will need to examine others who have come to different conclusions to see why the difference.  If at the end of those studies I still am at odds - then either my conclusion is wrong or right  and the others are right or wrong.  I would submit my work for them to peruse and seek clarification as to whether they or I had moved away from a proper methodology and why I had arrived at a particular conclusion. 

The problem with Stephen's interpretational method is he does it all by himself without any checks and balances.  And that is not a problem per se - except when he attempts to pass it off as the correct interpretation of the text while dismissing what others have spent years working on. The other thing which is significant is this - even if what Stephen ends up concluding is correct - it will in the end be for his own benefit without the satisfaction of assisting anyone else.  It will be posted on this site and then within a couple of months will be lost in the ether of the internet.  

But it is not a club. Anyone who wants to do the work and the studies are welcome.  
zedvictor4
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@Tradesecret
And you don't also have an agenda?

Stephen quotes the bible literally, and given that the bible he quotes from must be a fairly recent interpretation, then why do you still need to  re-interpret  in order to to be able to respond?

Let's be honest....It's because the literal bible is now out of sync with modern thinking.......It's still reliant on a fantastic creation hypothesis and is often embarrassingly, politically incorrect.

A loose historical record, embellished with a supernatural creation hypothesis.... In short, a Myth.

Some people have moved and on some haven't....And to be fair, this is the nature of data transfer and human susceptibility.....Teach your kids nonsense and they will grow up believing in nonsense.

Nonetheless, a GOD principle is still a reasonable hypothesis.....But certainly not as presented in the Bible.

You try to be a modern thinker, but are still well and truly stuck in the out of date past.
Stephen
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@zedvictor4
And you don't also have an agenda?

 Yes she does,  as all Christians do.  Because : He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.Mark 16:15 <<<< that is here agender in  her "calling" as a "Pastor and a Chaplin". 

Quote:   " But in my role as a pastor - which I also do, I counsel in pastoral care.  And yes, I am qualified by certified colleges with proper accreditation.  I am also a chaplain to our Countries Defence forces, a position I could not have without proper  qualifications.  I don't charge students,  I charge universities when they request me to lecture to them".   #20   but in the same breath she says she has no agenda.



Let's be honest....It's because the literal bible is now out of sync with modern thinking...….It's still reliant on a fantastic creation hypothesis and is often embarrassingly, politically incorrect.
 
 🗸+



You try to be a modern thinker, but are still well and truly stuck in the out of date past.
🗸+
Stephen
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@Tradesecret
He just does not like the answers - so he tries to pose the same questions in different ways.  

 Which  sometimes  needs to be done when  you have replied but have not answered. There is a difference my sly lawyer friend, as you well know, replying doesn't necessarily mean that you have answered. 

 I once asked you -  is Jesus also Yahweh god of the Hebrews?  You constantly came back with _ " Jesus is god" -  knowing full well you hadn't answered my question.  You take me for a complete and utter uneducated  twat,  while  knowing absolute nothing about my background or education.  Your arrogance would  make most people sick, but it doesn't make me sick.  I quite enjoy exposing your fakery,  your biblical ignorance and  your  forever, contradictory, ambiguous flawed scriptures .

It is not hard to expose you . That is because your arrogance blinds you to what is coming.  And I  know these flawed scriptures much better than you will ever do.

 I did so here with these two threads.

Starting with this one I asked about  "other function/s" John may have performed:

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5011-what-did-john-the-baptist-besides-baptise  <<< here you couldn't wait  to tell me  (a) " I don't think there is any assumption necessary [that john performed miracles] " but there is isn't there?

   and here  (b) "I don't recall John in relation to any miracles", but the bible indicates he did , doesn't it?  You know, the bible that you say was "breathed by god" .


  AND lets not forget (c)  "There was no reason for him to go about doing miracles"  but according to Herod in those very  same god breathed gospels , John indeed had been performing ""mighty works" as Jesus was now doing.   But you hand't even considered any of this before flying in with your replies. WHY?  Because you are bible ignorant!  You simply didn't know!   If you did, you would have easily connected the two and seen what was coming next.  Yet you  go around places of education pretending  that you do know in  your guise as a "qualified" Chaplin and Pastor.  give me  afkn break!



I was expecting your  arrogant know-it-all  response and was ready to follow up with  this back hand


 And you have simply ignored it after I showed you where you may be in error as to your extremely hasty answers shown at (a) , (b), and (c) above.

22 days later

amandragon01
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@3RU7AL
Nah, to be an atheist you have to disbelieve or lack belief in the existence of a god or gods.  Can't believe in the existence of something you believe to be real. They may reject the concept of god, they may hate the concept of god and they may take the position that if a god existed they'd refuse to worship, but if they don't believe then they're not atheist. 
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@amandragon01
Nah, to be an atheist you have to disbelieve or lack belief in the existence of a god or gods.  Can't believe in the existence of something you believe to be real. They may reject the concept of god, they may hate the concept of god and they may take the position that if a god existed they'd refuse to worship, but if they don't believe then they're not atheist. 
Please present your personally preferred definition of "ATHEIST".
amandragon01
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@3RU7AL
Please present your personally preferred definition of "ATHEIST".
A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of a god or gods.

All it takes to be an atheist by definition is to not believe in the existence of a god or gods. Anyone who believes a god or gods exist isn't an atheist. They neither lack belief nor disbelieve in the existence of a god or gods.
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@amandragon01
A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of a god or gods.
What would you call someone who simply refused to call themselves a "THEIST"?

literally, "NOT-a-THEIST".

Regardless of whether or not god($) are considered "real", I'm "NOT-a-THEIST" (I don't follow the teachings of any particular god$).
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@3RU7AL
Do you believe a god or gods exist? 
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@amandragon01
Do you believe a god or gods exist? 
A logically-coherent god (like Spinoza's god) cannot be ruled out.

A logically-incoherent god (like "YHWH") is impossible.
amandragon01
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@3RU7AL
If you don't believe in a god then I'd say you fall into the definition of atheist. Being an atheist isn't concerned with the belief of any claim of gods non-existence, but with the belief in gods existence.
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@amandragon01
A logically-coherent god (like Spinoza's god) cannot be ruled out.

According to your personally preferred definitions, can someone be a DEIST & an ATHEIST at the same time?