I am Gay - if your god told you to murder me, would you murder me?

Author: Theweakeredge

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#151
Elminster
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@Theweakeredge
Anyone who is orthodox will never admit that. To admit it is to say the Bible is not literal. I think what you would run into more is something like

"Attraction is not a choice, but denying it is"

You will always be a sinner in the eyes of the church. Which may be a good or bad thing depending on how much you care. 
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#152
Theweakeredge
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@Elminster
That's a blanket statement and false, I was raised Orthodox, most of my friends, and all of my family are. I was able to convince 90% of my friends, a few family members before I ever came out.
#153
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@Theweakeredge
Then they aren't really Orthodox. No orthodox christian will look at homosexuality as anything other than a sin. If they do, they aren't orthodox by definition. 
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#154
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@Elminster
Yeah, see you are using what's called a "No true Scotsman's man" fallacy, they can just use what's called Cognitive dissonance, they just believe I'm inherently sinful and I don't choose to do that specific sin. Its not that difficult
#155
Mopac
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@Username
It's got very little to do with what is written in the book. It's really about not giving credibility to something that keeps people sick. 
#156
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@Theweakeredge
That is because you don't know what a soul is. Your worldview was constructed to make these concepts unintelligible.
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#157
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@Mopac
No, you just aren't convincing, at all, you're arguments, your assertions, none of it is evidently true nor convincing.
#158
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@Mopac
The scriptures ought not scare you Stephen, not if you know how the church uses them.

I said - concern -  me. They don't scare me.


not if you know how the church uses them.


Why don't you start an interesting thread explaining in depth " how the church uses the scriptures". 




#159
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@Theweakeredge

 Try again.

Look you have  had you replies pages ago. No one here would take a blind bit of notice what the bible says when I came to you or your sexuality NO ONE! 
They just can't bring themselves to admit the Old Testament is barbaric nature. They want it both ways all the time. It is as you say " ignoring the fact that Jesus says contradicting things about the old laws. "

   Jesus makes it plain on many occasions what his stance is on the mosaic law. But these Christians will rewrite and reinterpret the hole bible if that what it takes  to make god and the Scriptures come up smelling of roses every time. 


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#160
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@Stephen
Yes, we call it cherry-picking, sound familiar?
#161
Mopac
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@Stephen
If you really want to know how the church uses scripture, go to an orthodox church. Become a catechuman. 

You simply want something to argue with. To me there is no debate about who has the valid viewpoint. The church has authority. The people who interpret scriptures apart from the church argue from their own false reasonings.

Don't worry butt lovers, we are not told to stone you to death. That said, we certainly don't consider your lifestyle choice to be moral.

#162
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@Theweakeredge
Protestants cherry pick. The church uses scripture for its intended purpose. Apart from the church, scripture is always taken out of context.
#163
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@Mopac
If you really want to know how the church uses scripture, go to an orthodox church. Become a catechuman. 

Well why don't you introduce me into it by starting a thread about it who knows where it might lead me. 


You simply want something to argue with.

Not necessarily. I don't always argue . Especially with those I happen to agree with. Such as the Brother. The Brother is a full blown Christian, I am not. I agree with many things the Brother has to say concerning the scriptures - which he knows extremely well. so it is rare I have a point to argue with him.
This doesn't stop him calling me "demonic,"  as you have done a few times.





Don't worry butt lovers, we are not told to stone you to death.
The bible and the lord  god Jesus does though, don't they? 

butt lovers,

Will you ever stop being so fkn childish. You are  like that little tart here that just cannot stop LOLLing at every comment and wetting her nickers with hysterics over nothing. FFS grow up Mopac



#164
Mopac
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@Stephen
Brother is not a Christian, he is an atheist's caricature of a RAGING ASSHOLE.

I know where any discussion of scripture will lead with you. Cacodoxy.

Not trying to hijack this topic. 


#165
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@Mopac
Brother is not a Christian, he is an atheist's caricature of a RAGING ASSHOLE.

Not for you to say.

And you are derailing someone else's thread. So I should give over now.

#166
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@Theweakeredge
Then to repeat they aren't orthodox. You can shift goal posts all you want but orthodox christians will acknowledge that homosexuality is a choice by the sheer definition of what it means to be orthodox 

Homosexuality is a sin
If you are living in sin without a choice then God made you that way 

They will refuse to acknowledge that. As far as you get is a calvinist framework where God intends for certain people to go to hell. So if he did create you that way, then it was being well aware that you would be sent to hell. 

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#167
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@Elminster
Wrong actually - Orthodox do declare that humans choose to act in sin, but they also believe we are inherently evil and sinful since the fall of adam
#168
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@Theweakeredge
Yes which Christ died for. What you are saying is you are incapable of not acting without sin. They absolutely do not believe that unless you start talking about calvinist

1) to be saved you have to repent of sin
2) homosexuality is a sin 
3) if you have no "choice" in engaging in homosexuality then you can't be saved.


That is not an orthodox belief. Even baptists disagree with that lol.
#169
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@Theweakeredge
That is actually not what we believe. This conception of original sin is actually one of the major things that western Christianity differs from us on.

We do not teach that people are inherently evil.
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#170
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@Elminster
Which is wrong, Orthodoxy believe in constant prayer, essentially asking forgiveness for every sin they make. And yes, even believing that each person is inherently sinful. That's why they ask forgiveness in the first place, it is an essential hallmark of all Christianity, and is what the bible and this sect actually teaches:


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#171
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I'm speaking generally here
#172
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@Theweakeredge
That is so fundamentally wrong that I don't even know where to start. It would take an entire seperate thread and topic to break that down 

But that is just fundamentally wrong 

#173
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What mopac is saying is generally correct as far as orthodox beliefs. Where we would differ is that I don't believe it to be the one "true religion"

But insofar as what they actually think, he's been very accurate

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#174
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@Elminster
I'm just getting what the general consensus from my research.
#175
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@Theweakeredge
Orthodox people are the crazies of religious christians. It doesn't leave text open to interpretation other than what the church interprets it as. It's very textualist. And I promise you , they absolutely view you as an abomination in the sense of you are just confused and sinning willingly and are on your way to hell 

What most people call "Orthodox" isn't really Orthodox. 

Again using mopac as an example. He will engage with you but he likely thinks you are a piece of filth. It's kind of crazy how deranged the views get. 

#176
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@Elminster
None of what you are saying is true, but it's ok. I forgive you.
#177
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@Theweakeredge
@Elminster
As I said, we don't teach that everyone is inherently sinful.

In the west, even starting with the Roman Catholics.. they say that all of mankind inherited the guilt of Adam's transgression.

We do not say that. We say the world inherited the mess cause by Adam's transgression.

Major difference.

#178
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@Theweakeredge
@Elminster
they absolutely view you as an abomination in the sense of you are just confused and sinning willingly and are on your way to hell....

....Again using mopac as an example. He will engage with you but he likely thinks you are a piece of filth. It's kind of crazy how deranged the views get. 



Someone who is deceived by definition is not aware that they are deceived.

So it is wrong to say that we are so fanatically intolerant or even unsympathetic.

But we aren't going to lie. We certainly do consider sodomy to be a sin.


#179
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@Mopac
It's not "fanatically" intolerant. It's that the orthodox church would view him as someone who is destined for hell because he's confused and would say he has a choice in the matter of homosexuality. He on the other hand would say he was born that way. Would view him as hopeless is a better way to say it 

When you set up a framework for that , it certainly can be toxic (at least in my experience). I think everything I said is pretty accurate

Orthodoxy requires submission to it


#180
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@Elminster
There are saints who repented of worse things.

Hopeless certainly wouldn't be how we see it.