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@Earth
Interesting. I'm okay with the assumption that Chris is town aligned but w/e.
I am too. Any other thoughts or direction you wanna pursue?
United States Senate Mafia DP1
Posts
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Total:
148
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@Lunatic
I am too. Any other thoughts or direction you wanna pursue?
Not really. I guess Chris could be some weird scum role that prevents him from hammering or whatever, but its better to assume Chris can't hammer. Grey is town.
That Chris is town.
Anyone wanna help me pressure oro for trying to VTNL when we are only 3 pages into the phase?
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@MisterChris
So you are telling me that you are willing to go away with the entirety of his meta as town because he claimed a PR. Stop and think about that statement.
You are probably town since you are anti town confirmed, but please think back to that statement
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@Lunatic
I don't have a problem with VTNL'ing in the first DP. I don't think it's scummy, but it's very out of characteristic for oromagi to do such a thing so early on
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@Lunatic
Anyone wanna help me pressure oro for trying to VTNL when we are only 3 pages into the phase?
doesn't he usually try to vtnl or am i thinking of someone else
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@Lunatic
nevermind, just read supa's post so i was thinking of someone else yeah that is weird then
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@WaterPhoenix
No one tries to VTNL. People either don't like VTNL'ing first DP or don't have a problem VTNL'ing first DP
VTNL'ing after their's been significant dialouge to disect is one thing...
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@Vader
I don't have a problem with VTNL'ing in the first DP. I don't think it's scummy, but it's very out of characteristic for oromagi to do such a thing so early on
I feel like I pretty regularly opine that most of the chatter generated within these games is non-constructive and so anti-TOWN. I generally support VTNL once everybody checks in and early claims have been made so long as nobody seems to particularly merit lynching. Those conditions just kicked in unusually early this game.
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@oromagi
True, but there has been some chatter in this game that could sway your vote. Still, this early on seems like a stretch.
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@oromagi
I feel like I pretty regularly opine that most of the chatter generated within these games is non-constructive and so anti-TOWN. I generally support VTNL once everybody checks in and early claims have been made so long as nobody seems to particularly merit lynching. Those conditions just kicked in unusually early this game.
Again is your strategy to bank on investigative results? How do you expect to progress the game from a vtnl?
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@Lunatic
Anyone wanna help me pressure oro for trying to VTNL when we are only 3 pages into the phase?
Eeeh. I can why he'll VTNL. I believe drafter once had a graph that basically proved longer DPs help mafia than it helps town.
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@Earth
Eeeh. I can why he'll VTNL. I believe drafter once had a graph that basically proved longer DPs help mafia than it helps town.
1. I debunked his evidence thoroughly (there was a lot of cherry picking involved) also stats don't take in context. He still uses it as an argument all the time though because it suits his narrative
2. Drafter also is adamantly against no lynching. His shorter day phase stuff is him making it shorter by lynching someone.
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@Vader
So you are telling me that you are willing to go away with the entirety of his meta as town because he claimed a PR. Stop and think about that statement.
You're strawmanning me and avoiding my main argument.
Regardless it seems town as a whole thinks TOWN Grey is a lot dumber than I do. Maybe I'm wrong.
I feel like I pretty regularly opine that most of the chatter generated within these games is non-constructive and so anti-TOWN. I generally support VTNL once everybody checks in and early claims have been made so long as nobody seems to particularly merit lynching. Those conditions just kicked in unusually early this game.
Normally, I might not be sus of this myself because I generally feel that much of the chatter that happens in DP1 is not particularly useful, though you posted your VTNL before Earth had posted anything. Everyone hadn't checked in yet. He has checked in by now, but this seems dismissive of his input and is just straight up a wrong characterization of what had happened before you posted your vote. Beyond that, while many others have contributed, I'd say there's still room to provide more insight before this starts to get absolutely muddled with pointless conversation.
VTL Oro
I don't think I sus Oro for pushing for a VTNL despite disagreeing that we should.
Seems like an Oro move and frankly, I really doubt scum team would want to give up on a mislynch so soon.
I don't think Oro is scummy for VTNLing, scum wants lynches
Vote Count:
Chris (2/5) - Water, Speed
Oro (2/5) - Lunatic, Whiteflame
Lunatic (1/5) - Greyparrot
Grey (1/5) - Chris
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@Earth
@whiteflame
posted your VTNL before Earth had posted anything. Everyone hadn't checked in yet.
This is accurate. I was mistaken in thinking everybody had checked in.
this seems dismissive of his input and is just straight up a wrong characterization
As everyone knows, I note players that haven't checked in as "AWoL" in my reads list. You took the time to edit my reads list but failed to note my oversight. Doesn't your oversight of my oversight likewise implicate you as "dismissive of Earth's input"?
Earth: no slight was intended by my failing to note your absence.
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@oromagi
As everyone knows, I note players that haven't checked in as "AWoL" in my reads list. You took the time to edit my reads list but failed to note my oversight. Doesn't your oversight of my oversight likewise implicate you as "dismissive of Earth's input"?
I don't think that my oversight did anything to diminish his input, especially since it's just a change of category rather than a recognition of contribution. That being said, what I find odd (and the reason for my current vote) is that you would put down a VTNL using that reasoning when it was clearly false. You're normally more thorough than this justification demonstrated and, contrary to the statements made by both MisterChris and Speed, I don't think you'd push for an early mislynch as scum since it would implicate you later.
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@whiteflame
You're normally more thorough than this
You obviously don't know me that well. I make mistakes like that all the time .
The more sus thing here is how you are injecting feeling and motivation without warrant.
"dismissive" is your narrative
"false" is your story
OK, I missed one player's name on the second page of the game.
What is your warrant for twisting that into "dismissive" "odd" and "false"?
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@MisterChris
You're objectively missing the meta of Greyparrot. His meta is too claim early. If he were to not claim, suspicion is drawn to him and he becomes sus'd out. Look at whiteflame's post where he talks about it. The point is Greyparrot was actually smart. Not revealing his role to leave mafia guessing while also not breaking his meta that he set for himself. Is it bad play/meta? Yes. But it is his meta and he sticks with it. If you weren't basically confirmed town, I would've scum read the shit out of you because I know you have made comments about his play before
I think Chris is the executioner
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@whiteflame
I don't think you'd push for an early mislynch as scum since it would implicate you later.
You've been scum before, you know this isn't how it works. There is little risk to scum to mislynch early game, and I don't think Oromagi's pushed for a VTNL so early in a game as scum before. It doesn't implicate you much at all as scum to hop on a wagon a townie starts if you can justify why you hopped on, and if you initiate a mislynch based on technically false but sound reasoning the same principle applies... If any mislynch goes through, it was only because a plurality of town hopped on board with you and agreed with your reasoning enough to risk the mislynch.
I've never met a scum player that was so reserved as to not stick DP1 out and seek for a mislynch. We've not even gotten close to a point to where the scum team would want to give up on it, and even if Oro did want a VTNL as scum, I doubt his scum partner would agree...
On another note, your statements here are reminding me of the sort of fluff logic scum use to justify mislynches and see if wagons catch on.
VTL Whiteflame.
Oops nvm lol he can't be
I have lingering suspicions of whiteflame a bit too. Mostly because he saw the flaw with Chris's argument, but decided to piggyback the same idea but with a more consistent tone and a minimal tone (eg: saying he knows Grey meta, but it is weird he didn't say it right away). FoS on Whiteflame at the moment
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@Vader
You're objectively missing the meta of Greyparrot. His meta is too claim early. If he were to not claim, suspicion is drawn to him and he becomes sus'd out. Look at whiteflame's post where he talks about it. The point is Greyparrot was actually smart. Not revealing his role to leave mafia guessing while also not breaking his meta that he set for himself. Is it bad play/meta? Yes. But it is his meta and he sticks with it. If you weren't basically confirmed town, I would've scum read the shit out of you because I know you have made comments about his play before
Assuming Grey is actually TOWN:
- "protective role" means only one of a few things and no matter what, it's extremely bad for town.
- I don't know what comments I've made about his play or in what context I made them, but in this context Grey did NOT benefit town by claiming no matter how you slice it.
- you continually ignore that even if Grey only delayed claiming for one DP it would still be a net benefit to TOWN, and that most of TOWN would buy that he delayed claiming a DEFENSIVE POWER ROLE and veered from his meta to make scum's job harder. I fully disagree that Grey's fate would be immediately sealed upon not insta-claiming. I think while scum could have called attention to it DP1, to my knowledge Grey has gone through games where he's been town and not claimed immediately (and in them he was a PR) so I don't see any reason TOWN would lock on such a lynch ignoring a readily available explanation. This all is without accounting for the fact that shit goes down and some lynches take priority over others in mafia games. There is a large possibility TOWN could center on another lynch and let Grey slide for a while.
And if Grey is actually SCUM, you all can admit that I was right and Grey wouldn't be dumb enough to claim Doc/Some other protective role immediately, and that we're fucking ourselves by giving him a free pass every time.
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@MisterChris
you continually ignore that even if Grey only delayed claiming for one DP it would still be a net benefit to TOWN, and that most of TOWN would buy that he delayed claiming a DEFENSIVE POWER ROLE and veered from his meta to make scum's job harder.
No lol I would've insta voted him had he not claimed
You have yet to explain how bad plays = scum. Plenty of people play badly. Also I'm fairly certain he's claimed before in one of my games as BP