School systems should include abstinence on par with contraception

Author: fauxlaw ,

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  • fauxlaw
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    fauxlaw
    Inspired by zedvictor4's recent topic on LTBQ. Jut looking for parity. Agree, oppose, or non-committal?
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @fauxlaw
    Doesn't consent or the age of, imply abstinence.

    It's that age old battle of trying to get kids not to do, what they are programmed to do.


    Though.

    If it's kids you want to reach.
    Them Papa don't preach 
    Use them devices.
    That's where their eyes is.
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @zedvictor4
    I would not expect my children to do any different than I did as an adolescent. I abstained until marriage at 23, by personal choice, and I don't dabble outside of it, by personal choice.
  • Ragnar
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    As someone who is opposed to abstinence only sex education, I'll wholly agree that for education on options abstinence deserves approximately equal time as contraception.
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @fauxlaw @Ragnar
    Interestingly.

    What is abstinence, especially in a modern context.

    Do we just mean abstinence from the act of procreation.

    Or do we mean total abstinence from acts of recreational sex, and also acts of physiologically necessary sexual fulfilment.

    Where does the buck stop as it were, and excuse the pun.


    Me fears, that ideological moralism is lurking just under the surface somewhere.
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @zedvictor4
    Physically speaking, please tell me the distinction between procreational and recreational sex?
    You're like the school district proposing a bus driver test to determine how close a candidate driver can approach a cliff with a bus-load of children, and not go over the edge. The best candidate avoids the cliff altogether. Abstinence is the avoidance of sexual activity. Stay away from the cliff, regardless of the procreational or recreational motivation.
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    I think kids should be told abstinence is a legit a choice to not getting pregnant and using contraception. Teens are bombed with sexual images and content constantly. They should feel ok not feeling ready or willing to just have sex cause everyone seems to be. I watch a lot of occult based shows and they show teens having sex and drinking like a soap opera would. 
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    Well said.
  • RationalMadman
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    Masturbation and virginity should completely lose their stigma.

    So, yeah, abstinence should be mentioned via that. Abstinence stopping pregnancy is so obvious on its own it needn't be taught. I genuinely believe even the least effective brains in our species can figure out that not having sex won't result in pregnancy (unless you somehow have other ways to get sperm to the womb or it's a freak case of her clone forming in her womb). I think forepaly should be encouraged over third base, especially for any teen romance. Foreplay is underrated af, even by inexperienced females but definitely by inexperienced males.


  • Polytheist-Witch
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    I think forepaly should be encouraged over third base, especially for any teen romance.
    Our anatomy and physiology teacher in high school was married to one of the school counselors and every year he did a sex Q&A for his classes with her. It was seriously an ask what you want and we will talk about it session. They went over everything and I mean everything. It was humiliating and super helpful at the same time.  I can't imagine doing that for a bunch of teens then or now.
  • oromagi
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    It was humiliating and super helpful at the same time
    My sex ed teacher was named Mr. Seamen
  • oromagi
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    • Meta-analysis of 40 years of studies demonstrates that teaching abstinence only generally results in higher rates of pregnancy, abortion, and STD
    • Teaching abstinence + sex ed gives exactly the same result as teaching sex ed only.  Therefore, in terms of results, teaching abstinence in any combination has zero impact
      • Since studies show no harm in teaching abstinence beyond a minor  waste of taxpayer money and a minor loss of class time devoted to other subjects, I see no reason to object.
    • Here in Colorado, we achieved a 40% decrease in teen pregnancy and a 42% decline in abortions between 2009-2015 by granting free contraception (particularly IUDs) to all women on demand.  A grant from Warren Buffet pays for the program.

  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @oromagi

    • Meta-analysis of 40 years of studies demonstrates that teaching abstinence only generally results in higher rates of pregnancy, abortion, and STD
    • Teaching abstinence + sex ed gives exactly the same result as teaching sex ed only.  Therefore, in terms of results, teaching abstinence in any combination has zero impact
    I think these bullet points contradict themselves.  In the first, your saying that abstinence only results in higher pregnency, abortion, and STDs.  In the second, you said teaching abstinence has zero impact.

    I think sex ed reduces pregnency/abortion rates, but I'm not sure about the STIs/STDs, mainly because IUDs (the birth control method promoted) prevents against pregnency, but not STIs/STDs.


  • oromagi
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    I think these bullet points contradict themselves.  In the first, your saying that abstinence only results in higher pregnency, abortion, and STDs.  In the second, you said teaching abstinence has zero impact.

    I said teaching abstinence in any combination has zero impact

    that is-
    teaching abstinence alone has negative impact
    teaching abstinence combined with other approaches has zero impact beyond the advantages of those other approaches


  • FLRW
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    But the School System should include this health tip that might sound pretty good to many guys: Have more sex, or masturbate more, and you might lower your odds of getting prostate cancer.  Research suggests that the more often men ejaculate, the less likely they are to have the disease.
  • Lemming
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    How about schools just tell parents that the time to talk to their kids about the birds and bees has come.
    And give the parents some paperwork and suggestions on what their kids ought be informed of.
    ?
  • Theweakeredge
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    --> @fauxlaw
    typically - schools don't cover enough about abstinence, abstinence education is overrepresented. 
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @Theweakeredge
    Which is it, not enough or over-presented? Can't be both in any given school.
  • Theweakeredge
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    --> @fauxlaw
    Sorry I rushed - I meant that they don't cover anything but abstinence, its overrepresented
  • coal
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    --> @Theweakeredge
    I had sex ed as a part of my gym class in Boston.  That was back around 2004-2005.  

    They discussed abstinence, for about five minutes.  The rest was your typical "condom on a bannana" type instruction, but even gay/lesbian sex were covered.  

    Though I doubt most of the country did.  Or does now.  
  • Theweakeredge
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    --> @coal
    Holy crap! That's a big thing - none of the health classes I've been in have ever even mentioned LGBT stuff - so that legitimately astounds me. 
  • coal
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    --> @Theweakeredge
    yep.  Even had a discussion on how sillicone based lube breaks condoms.  I was 12 or 13 ... lol
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @Theweakeredge
    That's not what the stats say.  According to https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767
    from 2019:

    18 states [36%] teach contraceptives only
    26 states [52%] teach both contraceptives and abstinence
    11 states [22%] teach abstinence only
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @fauxlaw @Polytheist-Witch
    Are you that naive Faux?

    Modus operandi are wide and varied.....As they probably ever were.



    And given the intensity and addictive nature of social media and devices, at what age do parents and teachers need to start intervening with sex education.



    I bet that there are 7 year olds, who are more aware of sexual variety than you are Faux......LOL.



  • fauxlaw
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    --> @zedvictor4
    I bet that there are 7 year olds, 
    Curious you should pick that age. When I was seven, the kid next door, for the past three years, was my best friend; Charlotte. At seven, we started playing doctor, and we had our respective fingers on and in target, respectively, so, we figured out how birds and bees fly.  No, I hadn't then figured out the variety of encounters, but then, I already knew by which mode the music swung for me, so, the variety didn't matter. Sadly,  she moved away a year later, but returned to town for a visit with other family when we were 16, and, well, without getting graphic, and without spoiling our respective abstinence, we confirmed how things had changed, so, we were also our first in-the-altogether experience. There may be more enlightened seven-year-olds, but this one was hardly void of experience.

    LOL means frightened little girl; didn't you know? No, the acronym doesn't fit; an d that's part of the solution.