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@badger
I still have the DNA instincts of a caveman like everyone else.
Jordan Peterson
Posts
Total:
170
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@Reece101
OK, In your own opinion do you think a 35 year old woman who choose career over family and becomes very successful over all appeals to a very successful 1% alpha males. And why or why not
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@oromagi
I am quoting Peterson on stats and statics because no one challenged his claims. You can play semantics with my interpretations, but it doesn't change the message or perspective.
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@sadolite
They don't.
People who dismiss Jordan Peterson are firm believers of using psychotic drugs and indoctrination to suppress our caveman instincts.
The people that refuse "treatment" are Neanderthals.
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@badger
Women are agents of chaos. Men are agents of order. That is the natural balance.
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@Greyparrot
This is a better one.
Why Women Fall for Pirates and Vampires - Prof. Jordan Peterson
Jordan peterson is a really attractive (for his age) right wing preacher.
He's also smart and witty with words.
However, he's also on the wrong side of most political issues, he nitpicks things to justify the wrong side very well. Sometimes I agree with him. Only sometimes. He's very good at what he does.
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@sadolite
OK, In your own opinion do you think a 35 year old woman who choose career over family and becomes very successful over all appeals to a very successful 1% alpha males. And why or why not
Can you please recapitulate what you were trying to ask?
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@FLRW
Why Women Fall for Pirates and Vampires - Prof. Jordan Peterson
Well, even Julius Caesar fell for a pirate once.
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@sadolite
--> @oromagiI am quoting Peterson on stats and statics because no one challenged his claims.
What stats and statistics? Can you link? I challenged a couple of Peterson's claims in POST#13
You can play semantics with my interpretations, but it doesn't change the message or perspective.
Let's recall your interpretation was:
"Woman age like milk and men age like fine wine is what I would use to describe is philosophy."
I'm not playing at semantics when I interpret your comment to mean that women are rottent.
Knowyourmeme.com advises:
Origin
The earliest known usage comes from the 2006 Jeff Dunham comedy special Jeff Dunham: Arguing with Myself, which aired on April 11th, 2006. In one part with the puppet Walter, Dunham performs the following dialog:
Jeff Dunham: She's a lovely lady.Walter: She's getting old.Jeff Dunham: Well, women age like… like fine wine.Walter: She's aging like milk!
On November 12th, 2008, Jeff Dunham published the clip on his verified YouTube page. The post received more than 4.2 million views in less than 13 years.
Spread
On July 20th, 2009, user @DReckless1 posted the earliest usage of the phrase on Twitter. They wrote, "watching Smallville. Tori Spelling has aged like milk".
The phrase continued to spread online. For example, on January 14th, 2015, Irish Times video game critic Joe Griffin described the video game Duke Nukem 34: Megaton Edition, "The gameplay has aged like wine in this retro re-release, but the title character has aged like milk."
On September 6th, 2018, Redditor Idontgiveafuc launched the /r/agedlikemilk subreddit. The subreddit's description reads, "A subreddit dedicated to all those things in media and elsewhere that didn’t stand the test of time, at all." The subreddit has amassed more than 697,000 subscribers in less than three years.
Three years later, on January 19th, 2021, Urban Dictionary user BokuWasBoingo defined the phrase, "A phrase that looks fine, but years later becomes basically irrelevant"
wehuntedthemanmoth.com reports that the phrase is particularly used by members of the explicitly misogynist MGTOW movement.
THE CLAIM: Women age like milk, men age like wine.
This central claim of this meme — that men age better than women — is a favorite folk belief of the modern Man Going His Own Way, and MGTOW memers like to illustrate this point with photos of the two main stars of the 1986 movie Top Gun — Tom Cruise and Kelly McGillis — from the movie itself and as they look today, more than 30 years later.
In order to properly assess this claim, you’d need a representative sample of people of various ages and a reasonably objective way to judge their relative attractiveness.
What we’ve got instead is a sample of two, and the person doing the judging is the sort of dude who sits around making MGTOW memes in his spare time. Not only is the sample way too small to be statistically significant, but it’s also wildly unrepresentative, given that one of the two subjects is Tom Cruise, a genetic freak who doesn’t appear to age. Normally you’d throw him out of any data sampling as an outlier.
Using him to represent how men, on average, age makes about as much sense as using, say, Helen Mirren as your example of how women, on average, age.
Tom Cruise, like Helen Mirren, is a decidedly non-representative data point.
You don’t even have to expand your data set very much to see just how unrepresentative Cruise is. All you have to do is to look at some current pics of some of the other male stars from Top Gun. Anthony Edwards today, Val Kilmer, now 59, is fighting freaking cancer, which is a motherfucker.
The point is: different men age differently, and very few of them — even Hollywood stars — age as gracefully as Tom Cruise.
So that’s the men. What about Kelly McGillis, who’s now 61? Well, in the recent picture in the meme above she certainly doesn’t look much like curdled milk to me. I mean, sure, she doesn’t look like she did in Top Gun, but if THIS is your example of a 60-year-old who’s aged badly you seriously need your eyes (or your brain) checked.
But again, basing your aging expectations on Hollywood stars is a bit ridiculous. The real world tends to be a bit less less glamorous.. Some age gracefully, some not so much, and I’m pretty sure it has little to do with their gender.
VERDICT: The meme maker’s claim is unsubstaintiated, due to small and unrepresentative sample size and blatant misreading of the data. And the only thing the chart proves is that the chart maker should probably be on some registry somewhere.
You may be left wondering how gracefully MGTOWs themselves age. Well, I don’t have a representative sample to work off of, but I do have some anecdotal evidence in the form of the video below, showing an assortment of mostly middle-aged Men’s Rights Activists and MGTOWs enjoying themselves at a retreat organized by A Voice for Men.
Though this video practically reeks of alcohol, I have to say I’m not seeing a lot of fine wine here.
Now growing old gracelessly isn’t a crime or a moral failing; how you look at any age is really no one’s business but your own. But MGTOWs like to throw a lot of stones, and it appears that in this case, as in so many others, their homes are made of pure glass.
I'm pretty sure Jordan Peterson would rather not be summed up using a MGTOW meme.
I looked him up and saw that he had a problem with benzodiazepines withdrawal. I'm not sure about his wild claims about human nature, I don't really care to devote much attention to it. I've looked at small soundbites and found them inferior to other philosophers. Plus, he seems like the kind of instructor that neglects his students just so he could deliver one or two witty punch lines about human nature. That was enough to separate myself from him. In short, I found nothing interesting about him because Im not partial to his lecturing style and I have no active interest in his ideas.
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@Reece101
...Stefan Molyneux
I think molyneux is very idiotic. I'm not sure what you're implying in that particular post but I just want to offer my opinion that his videos on philosophy are devoid of adequate research. In particular, his videos on Aristotle are abysmal. He used his own terminology which Aristotle never uses and he had trouble with understanding what is really a simple system of metaphysics.
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@sadolite
@oromagi
Yeah, I also asked in #14 for the stats. You've claimed that Peterson has something that supports his beliefs, but so far you've ignored multiple askances for statistics that you supposedly have.
What do you think Oro?
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@Theweakeredge
I am not trying to debate anything, and I am not trying to prove anything. If you don't believe anything he says then don't. I was just curious about how many people knew of him for the most part. I really don't need his sources to confirm what both he and I think are obvious. You disagree with his views, that's OK.
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@oromagi
I am not trying to debate anything, I gave my opinion based on what he said and I agree. You don't agree and that's fine. I would point out that the aging like wine and milk has nothing to do with physical appearance but rather the baggage and worth to the table. For instance a 38 year old very attractive single mom with two kids who is successful in business and wealthy, cant figure out why successful, wealthy never married single alpha males have no interest in them.
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@janesix
Weasels tend to be extremely thin.
I've never seen J.P. ....But I would imagine that there is a better creature comparison to be had.
I will take a look.
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@janesix
He's not even "Fat".
Nor particularly weasel like.
He's sort of a slender Bear that's just come out of hibernation.
Time to go and sort out Mrs Bear.
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@Reece101
Seems like a strait forward question, why don't 35 year old career women appeal to successful alpha males. I guess I did leave out both unmarried that would change things I guess if it wasn't assumed.
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@sadolite
for instance a 38 year old very attractive single mom with two kids who is successful in business and wealthy, cant figure out why successful, wealthy never married single alpha males have no interest in them.
Alpha implies an expectation of dominance (supremacy) that the American Civil Rights movement rejected some 70 years ago. I am 100% confident that no woman of any age or income who is self-assured enough to succeed in business and family wants to surrender her autonomy to some jerk calling himself the "alpha" - which generally means his mom cooks his meals and does his laundry for him and now he's looking a replacement mother rather than a partnership. No self-respecting man or woman wants the hassle of putting up with an "alpha" male.
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@sadolite
Seems like a strait forward question, why don't 35 year old career women appeal to successful alpha males. I guess I did leave out both unmarried that would change things I guess if it wasn't assumed.
Because “alpha males” only value fertility.
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@oromagi
I guess one could look at from that tired indoctrinated point of view.
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@Reece101
Again One could look at it from that indoctrinated point of view. These views come from the indoctrinated idea that patriarchy is based on power and not competence. And that women's ability to expand their lives into the work force mostly comes from the feminist movement and not technology.
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@sadolite
So you’ve moved from asking why “35 year old career women don’t appeal to alpha males,” to saying women aren’t competent in the workplace.
You’re such a MGTOW. You scream of insecurity.
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@Reece101
Where in any of what I have written have I ever said any such a thing or even implied it. Look if you don't like Peterson that's fine. But dont put words in my mouth and make accusations about things I have never said or implied. Grow the fuck up.
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@sadolite
1. You say that my indoctrinated views come from the idea that patriarchy is based on power and not competence.
A patriarchy is based on males being in charge. In context of women being in the workplace, that’s straight up misogynistic.
Women not being competent is baked into your reasoning.
2. You say that my indoctrination assumes the women's ability to expand their lives into the workforce mostly comes from the feminist movement and not technology.
Technology is somehow the reason why women are more prominent in the workplace? I’m afraid to say technology has always existed.
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@zedvictor4
Personally I like Peterson, though I don't consider him a Paragon.
He's a bit vague at times, has an odd take at times, but he speaks a lot, 'some of what he says makes me think.
Honestly he's not 'that great, that I'd tell people they 'have to see him, because 'really they don't. Plenty of other people in the world.
Probably though, he's better in his field of psychology, and when he branches out to other disciplines, he reaches a bit too much.
His debates with atheists, seem to take a tact 'other than religion vs atheism.
I think this throws the religious debates a bit out of kilter,
When he talks about the sacred, being something that atheist or theist can appreciate.
But the antitheists are all geared to just attacking God and Religion.
Though maybe it's fair to say Peterson is changing the goalposts.
I like his lectures on Nazi's, that people should be aware of what evils they themselves are capable, as a guard 'against acting in such ways.
I think he's gained a fair amount of fame by the Lefts 'weird attacks on him.
Groups of people trying to drown out his lectures in universities with noise and rude behavior.
People calling him a Nazi.
That 'one female reporter who kept misrepresenting all he was saying.
Comparing him to the Red Skull for whatever reason.
Also something about a compelled speech bill in Canada,
Some people saying he misrepresented the bill,
Other people saying he hit the nail on the head.
I didn't really bother to read into it one way or the other.
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@Lemming
I will definitely take a look.....I think I will find him interesting.
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@zedvictor4
"big fat weasel" in this instance means a particularly deceitful and conniving personality, in the way he beats around the bush in in order not to answer personal questions. The most important one being "do you believe in God", which happens to be important in his case,as he talks about God an awful lot.
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@janesix
"Well it depends what you mean by ___." - Jordan Peterson
Which honestly seems fair to me,
'Large number of debates and conversations,
On this site, on DDO,
Often become arguments on definitions.
A straight yes or no answer, can mischaracterize owns opinion.
A dominance hierarchy, formerly and colloquially called a pecking order, is a type of social hierarchy that arises when members of animal social groups interact, creating a ranking system. In mammals, a dominant individual is sometimes called an alpha.
vs.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal"
You can believe in one or the other but you can't believe in both of theses things.