What are your policy priorities for the US?

Author: Tejretics

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@Greyparrot
I've seen the vape test videos and they miss the point.   But, that doesn't mean masks should have been expected to have the same level of utility after the initial stages of the pandemic.  

The data on masks basically says two things:

1. If Americans had been wearing them when Fauci said NOT to, we probably would have had around 40,000 fewer deaths before the end of Q2 in the United States in 2020.
2. After the end of Q2, masks were pretty much meaningless.  
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@HistoryBuff
Also, I'm just now seeing this other post:

But there are large segments of the population that refuse to get the vaccine.
It is worth considering why there are large segments of the population that refuse to get the vaccine.  A substantially contributing factor, in fact often cited by the vaccine-skeptics themselves, is the extent to which Fauci has contradicted himself --- over and over again.  You surely cannot fail to be aware of that fact. 

A further contributing factor is how schizophrenic and stupid governments the world over have been on vaccine approval; in particular, with the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines and their completely vapid, delusional and unsupported claims about "blood clots" or other risks.  Nevermind the fact that neither of those vaccines presented any higher risk for blood clots than birth control, but that didn't matter.  The media got a soundbite, ran with it, and all of a sudden those vaccines were pulled from the market in Europe. 

The Canadian government can't even make up its mind between the province level and federal level.  For example, Ontario in its infinite wisdom decided to unilaterally pause both EVEN THOUGH the Canadian equivalent to the Food and Drug Administration approved it.   And in the United States, a panel of fools was convened by the NIH at Fauci's direction to "evaluate" and "provide guidance" as they "considered the data."

It took the NIH about three days to come to the conclusion that the FDA was right; that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was at once safe and effective.  But the damage their stupidity caused has all but killed that vaccine's prospects here.  Which is terrible, because it turns out that many countries around the world with less sophisticated regulatory regimes look to the US FDA for guidance.  

Now, if you're just a normal person without any real background in the regulatory aspects of this or the data involved, what's the conclusion you reach?  It's obvious: regulators have no idea what they're doing because they can't even be consistent among themselves!  So what do you do?  There's a lot of them who think the "safe" option is to avoid the vaccine.  

And this is terrible.  But it's a position that's understandable in view of where we are and how we got here.  It's the NIH's, Fauci's, the European Medical Agency's and every other national regulator's fault.  These people aren't anti-vaxx types, for the most part, either.  They are often pretty well informed.  And they understandably lack confidence in the vaccines because of how much of a giant clusterfuck world governments have made this.  

And dangerous variants are still popping up all over the world. The threat that the vaccines might be less effective on these variants causing another surge is certainly a real possibility. 
This is another spectacular set of lies told to you by the media and Fauci.  

1. There is not now, nor has there ever been, a scintilla of evidence in the form of actual data, to support the proposition that any so-called "variant" is any "more dangerous" than any prior "variant" or other strain we have previously identified. 

In order to support that claim, you would need at least the ability to at least identify which strain had previously infected people at scale (something we do not even have the technological capability to do).  Then you would need to be able to compare that with observed rates of community spread among all strains over time.  No such effort has been undertaken by any government anywhere in the world.

Instead, all that's out there (and there are about a dozen or so articles that made this same claim in relation to the so called "South African" variant you may now have forgotten about, for example; now they're saying the same thing about the so called "delta strain") is a bunch of speculative nonsense about how the COVID spike protein's binding ability might be able to better bind with a human ACE2 receptor.  

On what basis?  Speculation, of course.  They identified a variation in the genomic structure and speculate that the variation they identified means something.  Even though they have absolutely no evidence beyond the fact that the genomic variation exists.  They don't have a clue what it means.  And this has been the trend.  Every time we sequence something we assume it's "new" when the fact is that we have no idea whether it's new or not.  We just know when we figured out that it's out there.  Not when it became a thing.  

Expect this stupidity to continue.  Because seemingly the media have figured out that, at least for now, they can whore out "new variant" bullshit in the same way they claimed Hunter Biden's laptop was a Russian disinformation operation.  These people are beneath contempt. 

2. There is no evidence that existing vaccines are less effective against newly identified variants. 

The reasons why are complicated, but it's related to what I said above.  You'd need similar data to what I said above to even make that claim with a straight face; yet no such data exists.  It's logistically impossible to obtain it in a clinical trial setting, too. 

But as I said, the reason for the restrictions still existing is if people are still getting sick and dying.
Consider what you just said.  And realize that "people are still getting sick and dying" at the same rates (or worse rates, more often than not) under lockdown settings than otherwise.  Read: Lockdowns fail.  Continuing them is a mistake.  This is a very simple concept to understand and if by now you don't, you're basically probably not even capable of recognizing what is going on around you.  

What should have happened but did not in Florida, Texas, Georgia and every other state that defied the CDC's vapid "guidance" is proof positive that all of these so-called "safety measures" are complete nonsense. 

So if that is happening, there damn well better still be restrictions. People would demand it. 
And people demanded burning witches in Salem, too.  Because the "experts" then agreed that girls were engaged in witchcraft.  So they burned them alive. 

The fact is that people have a psychological need to feel like they have some control over the risks they face in their lives.  That's how lockdowns were sold to the public --- and it was a complete and unmitigated lie.  

Sorry to tell you.  But you've been sold --- and seem to still very strongly believe --- that this snake oil works.  But it doesn't have to be that way.  You could wake up and smell the coffee.  








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@coal
It’s absolutely wild to me that in places like Texas or Florida things have pretty much been back to normal since last summer. I started going to restaurants again in June, never stopped seeing friends, never wore a mask outside…life was very normal for me. There are states that still have restrictions, long after every adult who wanted a vaccine could’ve gotten one. I saw an absolutely wild stat the other day, people who have been vaccinated were MORE likely to wear a mask than unvaccinated people. No doubt there are vaccinated people still self quarantining 

I would say that my stance on covid was pretty sane generally. The only thing I was wrong about was that I was absolutely in denial about how bad things were in January and February. I was so ready for it to be over that it wasn’t until a few days ago that I checked the numbers again and was surprised. But look: that came after a year of off and on restrictions and masks. I’m not as confident as you are that they did NOTHING but I’m confident the difference was marginal. The only way out was through immunity either by catching the disease or vaccinations. 
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@coal
Although I would try Fauci for fraud, among other crimes he has clearly been implicated in.\
i'm guessing you have no idea what fraud means. Because I have never seen any evidence he has committed any. 

said another way, there is no evidence that lockdowns had any effect on either (a) rate of community spread or (b) fatality rates (based on either the case-fatality rate or the infection fatality rate). 
i will grant that you appear to be more of an expert on the statistics than I am. But we are seeing a cycle. The lockdowns ramp up, cases drop, the lockdowns ease and cases spike again. That would seem to confirm their utility. 

If Ferguson was right, then the rate of case growth in Sweden should have been not just a little ... but precipitously higher than the case growth rate in a country like the United Kingdom.
my understanding is that Sweden's policy was a failure. 

"In the second wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Swedish national response continues to be an outlier with cases and deaths increasing more rapidly than in its Nordic neighbours. On Dec 20, 2020, COVID-19 deaths in Sweden had reached more than 800 or 787 deaths per 1 million population, which is 4·5 to ten times higher than its neighbours."

Likewise, if Ferguson was right, then at least some metric of fatality rates from COVID in Sweden should have been greater than in the United Kingdom.  There too, just the opposite happened. 
But they were many times worse off than their neighbors. Perhaps differences between sweden and the UK are cultural. For example if people in the UK just willfully ignored health advice like wearing a mask while people in sweden took it seriously. A lockdown is much less effective if people are ignoring it. Government policy is important, but culture and public opinion will have a large role as well. 

Every word of this sentence is false.  There is not now, nor has there ever been, precedent for the lockdowns.
governments have always had the power to order businesses to close. they do it literally every day. I grant that this was a more extreme version of that power, but don't pretend it is new. 

They are not the same thing and do not involve the same issues. 
true. but the right wing people i have spoken to about this previously have always railed against being forced to wear a mask so i was including it as well as it is a normal thing the government has always had power over. 


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@coal
t is worth considering why there are large segments of the population that refuse to get the vaccine...
Great post from this point. When you base a public health campaign on lies and when the public health experts have been proven wrong again and again it makes sense that some people are skeptical of potentially getting burned a third time 
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@coal
Also I don’t think I could put into words how much I resent the fact that social media companies were banning people for suggesting that covid was made in a lab and then whoops, turns out that’s what probably happened and we aren’t going to ban you anymore! without the slightest apology. I never want to hear from the “but it’s a private company!!!!” Dumbshits ever again, let’s red tape the sh*t out of these companies 
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@coal
It is worth considering why there are large segments of the population that refuse to get the vaccine.  A substantially contributing factor, in fact often cited by the vaccine-skeptics themselves, is the extent to which Fauci has contradicted himself --- over and over again.  You surely cannot fail to be aware of that fact. 
I agree fauci has contradicted himself. Some of that was that the information changed. Some of it was clearly lies. But the people refusing to get vaccinated usually cite stupid reasons like brain control chips. Most people refusing to get vaccinated don't even have a specific reason. Right wing media has just led them to believe they are unsafe or not necessary. I've seen stories of lots of people who are dying of covid who simply refuse to believe the doctor that they have it because they are convinced it doesn't exist. 

Nevermind the fact that neither of those vaccines presented any higher risk for blood clots than birth control, but that didn't matter.  The media got a soundbite, ran with it, and all of a sudden those vaccines were pulled from the market in Europe. 
agreed. that was dumb. But they were being more careful than they should have been. If anything, that should make people even more confident in the vaccines approved for us. 

The Canadian government can't even make up its mind between the province level and federal level.  For example, Ontario in its infinite wisdom decided to unilaterally pause both EVEN THOUGH the Canadian equivalent to the Food and Drug Administration approved it.
also fair. But the premier of ontario is a right wing idiot. 

Now, if you're just a normal person without any real background in the regulatory aspects of this or the data involved, what's the conclusion you reach?  It's obvious: regulators have no idea what they're doing because they can't even be consistent among themselves!  So what do you do?  There's a lot of them who think the "safe" option is to avoid the vaccine.  
people are human. They make mistakes. I grant that the way governments reacted to the J & J and astra zenica vaccines were stupid. They wanted to make 100% sure the vaccines were safe to ensure public confidence in them, but just ended up undermining it. But they did end up confirming they were safe. Then right wing media continued telling people they weren't. I mean just the other day trump said on fox that vaccines were dangerous for children. 

These people aren't anti-vaxx types, for the most part, either.  They are often pretty well informed.  And they understandably lack confidence in the vaccines because of how much of a giant clusterfuck world governments have made this.  
but the government was being more careful than they should have been, not less. That isn't an argument against the safety of vaccines. "well informed" people wouldn't see that and decide vaccines are unsafe. 

There is no evidence that existing vaccines are less effective against newly identified variants. 

The reasons why are complicated, but it's related to what I said above.  You'd need similar data to what I said above to even make that claim with a straight face; yet no such data exists.  It's logistically impossible to obtain it in a clinical trial setting, too. 
so from what I read here, you aren't saying that the vaccine is less effective on new variants, you are saying that we don't have sufficient data to support that yet. And I am willing to stipulate you may be right about that. But it is entirely possible the vaccines are less effective by new variants or by new variants that are likely to come up. And I believe I had brought this up as an argument as to why lock down restrictions might continue to be needed, if this occurred. 

Sorry to tell you.  But you've been sold --- and seem to still very strongly believe --- that this snake oil works.  But it doesn't have to be that way.  You could wake up and smell the coffee.  
if by smell the coffee, you mean become like india and have our medical system collapse. 

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@HistoryBuff
I agree fauci has contradicted himself. Some of that was that the information changed. Some of it was clearly lies. But the people refusing to get vaccinated usually cite stupid reasons like brain control chips. Most people refusing to get vaccinated don't even have a specific reason. Right wing media has just led them to believe they are unsafe or not necessary. I've seen stories of lots of people who are dying of covid who simply refuse to believe the doctor that they have it because they are convinced it doesn't exist. 
The brain chips thing is a leftist meme.I have never seen anyone actually say that. Most of the concern about the vaccine stems from the fact that it is a new technology and not fully tested. People can get over this, but not when the figures pushing it are people they don’t trust. Hong Kong also has a large vaccine skeptical population and I wouldn’t say they are right wing in the American sense. What it comes down to is trust in the regime, if you’ll recall back in October or so It was Democrats (including Kamala Harris) who said they wouldn’t get a vaccine 
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@thett3
The brain chips thing is a leftist meme.I have never seen anyone actually say that.
I don't spend much time in right wing areas of the internet (like parlor or whatever) but i'm pretty sure there are lots of people who believe bill gates is a villain and is messing with the vaccines. They might not all believe the "brain chip" thing, but their beliefs are also stupid and crazy. 

What it comes down to is trust in the regime, if you’ll recall back in October or so It was Democrats (including Kamala Harris) who said they wouldn’t get a vaccine 
I believe Harris said she wouldn't take it just based on the government's say so. But if doctors recommended getting it she would be 1st in line to take it. Guess what, doctors recommend getting it.
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@HistoryBuff
I don't spend much time in right wing areas of the internet (like parlor or whatever) but i'm pretty sure there are lots of people who believe bill gates is a villain and is messing with the vaccines. They might not all believe the "brain chip" thing, but their beliefs are also stupid and crazy. 
I do spend time on the right wing internet, and you’re wrong. Nobody believes that, there is a lot of fear about unknown potential side effects of mRNA 

I believe Harris said she wouldn't take it just based on the government's say so. But if doctors recommended getting it she would be 1st in line to take it. Guess what, doctors recommend getting it
Yes because people like Fauci are people that Democrats trust even though they have long since demonstrated untrustworthiness.  That’s the entire point. They’ve done studies and vaccine hesitant people are way more comfortable with it when their family doctor recommends it. At the end of the day people know their limitations and outsource complicated questions like this to people they trust. When the authority figures are all proven liars, what do you expect? 
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@coal
.coal..............You know I've been on this war path since March 2020.......why there are large segments of the population that refuse to get the vaccine....

Differrent reasons. 1}  ignorant of truth, 2{ partly #1  is because scared off by lies conspiracy nutters, 3} scared off by minor side effects, and the rare serious side effects, 4} give me liberty or give me death by CoV-2 attittude, also resultant of right-wing nutters those on left who have a string of anti-governent nuttiness, and lack of science nuttiness ergo a lack of trust in anyone of authority, 5} all that I didnt list and overlaps with prior set of four.
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1} policies that moves USA towards unified humanity as in one-for-all-and-all-for-one mentality that is of the most moral imperative for all of humanity not just  one nation, or group,  so as al humans find trust in those of authority that they too want what is best for all of humanity and not just a select group,

2} policies that crease human population to the levels that correspond to the systems in place we have that lessen the ongoing detriment to the ecological systems that sustain humanity,

3} with all nations agreeing the above basics, we then need to deactive the greatest and most immediate rapid to kill of humanity on Earth and that is the  hydrogen bombs,

4} polices that begin with the basics of fresh water, food and shelter, as in one-for-all-and-all-for-one mentality,

5} policies that accelerate compuster based secenarios from  much large sector of those  governmental and free enterprise, that run high number of scenarios that are likened to the how to make the world work for eveyone, without destruction to the ecological enviroment that sustains all of humanity,

6) polices that minimize social class and race, espouses a common trust of all humans do the right thing, that moves us all toward a sustainable future that does not lessens the detriment to the ecological environment  that sustains us all,

7} policies that encourage the sharing of knowledge ergo communication of education of what is needed, communitcation of what is being studied, communication of why, and communication of errors along the way in every sector of humanity,

8} cost accounting as projected from computer scenarios witht the basic assumption, that, if the ecological systems that sustain us die, that the costs are irrelevant and what is relevant, is the trust that we want as many as possible on to survive, on as  basic minimal standard of living, knowing that, what is more important is the quality of life and that quality is based on the moral and empathical treatment we enact toward each other, and not the amount of  unnecessary stuff

9} polices that root out those who seek authority, yet are proven to have not active empathy centers in their brains,

10 } polices the move in direction of spiritual hope that no humans will not design or proferliferate any firearms that kill humans and the start of this is unified world-wide agreement to destroy all firearms on Earth.


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@Greyparrot
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@HistoryBuff
i'm guessing you have no idea what fraud means. Because I have never seen any evidence he has committed any. 
For reasons I will decline to go into, I don't think you will ever fully appreciate the irony of you making that comment.  But you can DM me if you want to talk about it.  Just not going to talk publicly about the same. 

Though I'll just note the following: It is beyond obvious to me you are not a lawyer and have no understanding of what constitutes fraud or the facts in this instance constituting fraud.  Though if you would like to cure your ignorance, we can discuss. 

The lockdowns ramp up, cases drop, the lockdowns ease and cases spike again. That would seem to confirm their utility. 
This is a serious question.  And I am not trying to be condescending.  Just trying to understand.  What math have you actually taken and passed?  Where are you at in terms of education? 

my understanding is that Sweden's policy was a failure. 
That was the media narrative.  It is wrong.  You should focus less on media reports and the wholly vapid adjectives they use; and more on actual evidence. 

The bottom line is this: in this media ecosphere, you have to critically consider what you're being told.  Particularly in view of whose interests are being served by what you're being told.  These are things that, at one point in the United States (and England at least), students were taught even in high/primary public schools.  Now, it's not obvious that's the case. 

You'll find no shortage of "experts" who weighed in on Sweden.  But they all say the same thing; and none of them have done any kind of independent analysis.  It's just an echo chamber of pseudoscientific nonsense in which a group of people go on TV or write nonsense for Vox or some other trash outlet like the Daily Mail to repeat the same shit their "peers" have said.  Except none of them actually have the data to back up their claims. 

So you might be wondering ... like ok, so let's say I'm right ... why haven't more people spoken up about that?

Well that would actually be a good question.  First, the politics of how research gets funded.  Guess who holds the power to write grants?  The same people who are peddling the conspiracy theories that Sweden somehow faced an apocalypse from COVID.   Second, the politics of how science is talked about now.  You have to be on Twitter to appreciate how wholly deficient in evidence "expert opinion" has become.  Sam Harris recently had a podcast where this topic was addressed.  I can discuss each of these further as well. 

 They wanted to make 100% sure the vaccines were safe to ensure public confidence in them,
Wrong.  Safe and effective, as the standard requires in the United States, Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and others does not mean "100%."  It never has, and never will.  All medications, even over the counter drugs like aspirin and ibuprofen, are not "100% safe and effective." 

But it is entirely possible the vaccines are less effective by new variants or by new variants that are likely to come up.
You have to have some basic understanding of virology to understand the problems with basically everything you've said about "new variants."  I thought I made this clear above, but maybe I didn't.  So we'll try again:

Viruses mutate all the time.  That doesn't mean that any mutation is going to make any particular virus more infectious or more deadly.  In fact, the opposite is what you'd expect.  Viruses tend to get less potent over time; not the other way around, as is the case with bacteria for example.  

Further, the way vaccines (and in particular the adenovirus vaccines) work in the body provides a shield of immunity that extends beyond any particular viral genus.  For the purpose of facilitating your understanding; consider the difference between a species and a genus.  

A species is the particular.  A genus is the category of species that belong to the genus.  Vaccines provide broad immunity against the genus; not the species.  While some species may be outside the outer bounds of immunity within the genus, almost all will be within the set of protection.  Because that's how vaccines work.  mRNA vaccines included (albeit they're a little bit different than adenovirus vaccines). 

Relatedly, the language used to describe these alleged "new variants" is highly misleading.  The issue for any new variation is whether a strain emerges that is so qualitatively different from prior strains that it falls outside the scope of immunity conferred by any vaccine.  And there is no evidence that any strain we have identified falls into that category.  Nor is there evidence that the virus is mutating fast enough that this should even be expected to be the case.  

That is to say ... the media say one thing (and their talking head experts that don't know anything, and who are literally paid to scare people to boost ratings) and the evidence says otherwise. 

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@thett3
I do spend time on the right wing internet, and you’re wrong. Nobody believes that, there is a lot of fear about unknown potential side effects of mRNA 
which is based on what exactly? the available evidence says they are safe and doctors recommend taking them. But right wing media keeps perpetuating the idea they are unsafe. Some of it is quite fascinating really. I watched trump try to take credit for the vaccines and then immediately after that spread anti-vax bullshit about them being unsafe. The double think is fascinating. 

They’ve done studies and vaccine hesitant people are way more comfortable with it when their family doctor recommends it.
so the issue is that the people they do trust aren't recommending it. And mostly, they trust right wing news sources, which are spreading bullshit anti-vax nonsense. 

When the authority figures are all proven liars, what do you expect? 
have you ever met someone who wasn't a liar. In this case, his lies were usually for a good reason. IE not making a rush on masks when they were critically needed for healthcare workers. I agree he shouldn't have lied, but at least he had good intentions.

But fauci aside, virtually all doctors recommend getting the vaccine. So even if you don't trust fauci, it's not like other doctors disagree with him. The right is just amplifying the handful of doctors that do disagree because it benefits them to do so. 
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Unfortunately I think we are going to have a lot more Republicans.  New research is now suggesting that there may be long-term neurologic consequences in those who survive COVID infections, including more than seven million Americans and another 27 million people worldwide. Particularly troubling is increasing evidence that there may be mild — but very real — brain damage that occurs in many survivors, causing pervasive yet subtle cognitive, behavioral, and psychological problems.
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what about the study with airlines? it makes the whole "social distancing" thing look like a joke and maybe we should have focused on ventilation instead.

Perhaps in a sane and unfiltered (pardon the pun) science world there might have been specialized masks invented for Covid that would direct residual breath down to the ground instead of up into the air after noting Airlines were a massively low vector for transmission spread. Perhaps to prevent particles lingering like those vape tests showed.

Perhaps.


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i'm guessing you have no idea what fraud means. Because I have never seen any evidence he has committed any. 

Oh wow...yeah... this looks like something straight out of a Chinese tribunal.
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@TheUnderdog

6) Reduce the abortion rate by expanding access to contraception.
im pretty sure this will have the opposite effect
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@Dr.Franklin
The abortion rate has been falling considerably, along with the birth rate, because contraception prevents abortions and unintended pregnencies.  In Africa, 40 million abortions (40 abortions per 1000 people) happen per year and contraception is stigmatized there.  In the US, our abortion rate is 2.5 per 1000 people, and abortion is legal here whereas it is more restricted in Africa.  The lurking variable is the destigmatation of contraception in the US, whereas in Africa, contraception is rare, and abortions and unwanted pregnencies are common.  Contraception both reduces the abortion rate and the unwanted pregnency rate by huge margins.  Abortion restrictions only slightly reduce the abortion rate and every abortion that is prevented leads to one more unwanted pregnency.

The left wants to primarily reduce the unwanted pregnency rate.  The right wants to primarily reduce the abortion rate.  Ideologue pro lifers and pro choicers oppose birth control for different reason.  Ideologue pro choicers see it as inconvenient and slightly painful, and ideologue pro lifers obey the Pope on birth control.  I propose a solution that as many as 90% of Americans (regardless if they are pro life or pro choice) can get behind.  Make contraception free and better than it is now and you will both reduce the unwanted pregnency rate as well as the abortion rate.

Thoughts?
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@TheUnderdog
contracpetion leads to more promiscuity
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@Dr.Franklin
Promoscuity is unfortunately inevitable.  I would like it if everyone waited until marriage, but this is merely a dream.  If you give people free contraception, they will have promiscuious protected sex.  They will probably not get pregnant, and STI transmission rates will be much slower.  If you ban contraception or make it cost money, people will have promiscuious sex still.  This sex will be unprotected, unwanted pregnencies are inevitable; abortions are inevitable; poverty is inevitable.  STIs spread much more frequently.  This is why STI and abortion rates are higher in societies (like African societies) where contraception is frowned upon than they are in western countries, where contraception is encouraged if one can't keep it in their pants.
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@TheUnderdog
promiscuity is not inevtiable in a moral society
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@Dr.Franklin
Depends on your definition of morality.  In this society and in every country on the planet (which I think is pretty moral), promiscuity is inevitable.  Guys get horny and they pressure their girlfriends to fuck them, or they rape a stranger if they can't get a girlfriend.  This is why most rapists are men.  Only very religious people and few other people wait until marriage.  It's ideal if everyone waits, but this isn't going to happen.
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@TheUnderdog
why was promicsuity discouraged for so long then?
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@Dr.Franklin
Promiscuity was discouraged, but people didn't take the advice.  Similar to how parents tell you not to speed but next time they get in their car, they speed.  People are hypocrites and you should never tell someone to do something your unwilling to do yourself.  The only people that should encourage abstinence until marriage are those that don't have premarital sex themselves.  I'm willing to wait until marriage.  But encouraging people to do something that I know they won't do when contraception reduces abortion and STI rates more than trying to be abstinent?  I'd prefer they use contraception.
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@thett3
>  What it comes down to is trust in the regime, if you’ll recall back in October or so It was Democrats (including Kamala Harris) who said they wouldn’t get a vaccine 

Correct.  And most of the anti-vaxx types are left wing nut jobs. 
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@TheUnderdog
If you randomly date a woman, there is a 23.7% chance that she has had an abortion or will have an abortion.

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@Greyparrot
I think this proportion is too high; there have only been 55 million abortions in the US since Roe V Wade was established.  If every woman who had an abortion had only one abortion, then this would mean roughly 1/3 females in the US had an abortion.  This is assuming nobody that had an abortion died of old age and it assumes no females had more than one abortion.  With both of these factors being implemented, maybe 1/7 women alive today had at least 1 abortion.  Since the abortion rate is falling, people that you can date now are less likely to have gotten an abortion.  I guess that around 1/10 women you can date that aren't married to anyone have had at lest 1 abortion.  This is too many, but with 1/10 eligible females getting an abortion, the practice if banned can't be punished that harshly.
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@TheUnderdog
That statistic is accurate and women who I talked to confirmed it.
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@Greyparrot
The females you encountered is a very small sample size, or that might have been a stat from a few decades ago, but now this is probably a smaller proportion.
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@HistoryBuff
which is based on what exactly? the available evidence says they are safe and doctors recommend taking them. But right wing media keeps perpetuating the idea they are unsafe. Some of it is quite fascinating really. I watched trump try to take credit for the vaccines and then immediately after that spread anti-vax bullshit about them being unsafe. The double think is fascinating. 
Why speak with authority on something you, self admittedly, have no idea about? You don’t spend time with right wingers or watch right wing media so you don’t really know what causes the concern. Trump in particular hasn’t said anything anti vax. Like I said it mostly comes out of distrust of the regime 

have you ever met someone who wasn't a liar. In this case, his lies were usually for a good reason. IE not making a rush on masks when they were critically needed for healthcare workers. I agree he shouldn't have lied, but at least he had good intentions.

There are absolutely public servants who don’t flagrantly lie and weren’t wrong at every turn, yeah. Fauci was actually above average in terms of bureaucratic leadership. At least he didn’t turn on a dime and suddenly endorse mass protests because he believed in the cause. After 2020 I don’t blame the right one bit for being distrustful of the powers that be