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@Mesmer
Racism is a nonsense, malicious term
Posts
Total:
182
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@MarkWebberFan
I believe attraction is contingent on time and place. I want to know where the exceptions lie in your argument.
The present study examined if empathy and perceived similarity relate to
empathic behaviors online. The study featured three real online influencers, one of whom was
white, one Asian, and one Black. In a sample of 115 participants, I found that empathy
significantly, negatively correlated with aggression for the two non-white influencers featured in
our study. For the one white influencer, the more similar viewers felt toward her, the less
aggression they felt toward her behaviors. Controlling for ethnicity of participants, participants
indicated significantly higher levels of perceived similarity toward the white influencer, followed
by the Asian influencer, and the Black influencer. [**]
While it is not "impossible" for any particular human to feel empathy for any other particular human, THE OVERWHELMING TENDENCY is for humans to feel MORE empathy for humans who are perceived to be "more similar".
For example,
Human ethnocentrism—the tendency to view one's group as centrally important and superior to other groups—creates intergroup bias that fuels prejudice, xenophobia, and intergroup violence. Grounded in the idea that ethnocentrism also facilitates within-group trust, cooperation, and coordination, we conjecture that ethnocentrism may be modulated by brain oxytocin, a peptide shown to promote cooperation among in-group members. In double-blind, placebo-controlled designs, males self-administered oxytocin or placebo and privately performed computer-guided tasks to gauge different manifestations of ethnocentric in-group favoritism as well as out-group derogation. Experiments 1 and 2 used the Implicit Association Test to assess in-group favoritism and out-group derogation. Experiment 3 used the infrahumanization task to assess the extent to which humans ascribe secondary, uniquely human emotions to their in-group and to an out-group. Experiments 4 and 5 confronted participants with the option to save the life of a larger collective by sacrificing one individual, nominated as in-group or as out-group. Results show that oxytocin creates intergroup bias because oxytocin motivates in-group favoritism and, to a lesser extent, out-group derogation. These findings call into question the view of oxytocin as an indiscriminate “love drug” or “cuddle chemical” and suggest that oxytocin has a role in the emergence of intergroup conflict and violence. [**]
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@Mesmer
I agree with you that "hate" and "otherism" is toxic.
I'm just not sure that "racism" is any more "evil" than hating and or discriminating against someone for their religion (and or non-religion) and or hating people because they believe the earth is flat and or because they don't want to be forced to accept a "vaccine".
Why is it ok to make fun of people for one thing and NOT ok to make fun of them for some other thing??
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@3RU7AL
I'm just not sure that "racism" is any more "evil" than hating and or discriminating against someone for their religion (and or non-religion) and or hating people because they believe the earth is flat and or because they don't want to be forced to accept a "vaccine".Why is it ok to make fun of people for one thing and NOT ok to make fun of them for some other thing??
What skin color you're born with, isn't a choice. Religion, political party, etc., are choices.
To hate someone for existing in a manner they did not choose to do, is guaranteed to be extremely petty. Whereas hating someone for (often really stupid) belief systems to which they actively choose to ascribe, might be warranted.
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@Barney
Religion, political party, etc., are choices.
Isn't killing or imprisoning or denying someone a job because of their religion and or political belief just as "evil" as "racism" ?
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@3RU7AL
Religion, political party, etc., are choices.Isn't killing or imprisoning or denying someone a job because of their religion and or political belief just as "evil" as "racism" ?
They can be evil for sure, but again, at least those things are based on who you choose to be; not merely the conditions of your birth.
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@Barney
They can be evil for sure, but again, at least those things are based on who you choose to be; not merely the conditions of your birth.
Where you are born is highly correlated with your religion and politics.
And even if it wasn't, I'm still not sure it's in any way "better" to discriminate against someone for a sincerely held belief.
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@3RU7AL
They can be evil for sure, but again, at least those things are based on who you choose to be; not merely the conditions of your birth.Where you are born is highly correlated with your religion and politics.And even if it wasn't, I'm still not sure it's in any way "better" to discriminate against someone for a sincerely held belief.
Correlated, any the person may opt to change their sincerely held beliefs. Plus the expression of those beliefs may actually affects other people in a way that race never will.
As an example, I was raised by a neo-nazi cult which believes in the importance of murdering people, but I choose to reject it all.
I was born half-Irish, there is literally nothing I can do about that; and it doesn't really affect anyone else anyways.
The magnitude of difference should be self evident. If the police arrested someone for having freckles, that would be absurdly stupid, as it inflicts harm on one person, for zero benefit for anyone else. Whereas if they arrested someone for murdering other people, there is massive benefit to the greater community, no matter how hurt that killer feels for being discriminated against for their sincerely held beliefs.
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@Barney
10+ Ragnar for several posts now. 'Wall-of-text' is take off from the guy who created the 'wall-of-sound' { Phil Spector } in 60's. ----" He created this sound by having
a number of electric and acoustic guitarists perform the same parts in
unison, adding musical arrangements for large groups and/or orchestral
musicians, and then recording the sound using an echo chamber."----
A wall-of-text is done more like what the Grateful Dead did with large wall-of-speakers that became too much even for strongest guys to keep installing and uninstalling at each concert.
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@Barney
Whereas if they arrested someone for murdering other people,
You're proposing they be punished for their violation of law, NOT "their sincerely held belief".
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@Barney
If the police arrested someone for advocating communism, that would be absurdly stupid,
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@3RU7AL
id be in jail rn
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@3RU7AL
Many times throughout history race (particularly being the wrong race in the wrong location) was against the law.
Race leads primarily to how easily someone sunburns, which affects the individual, but not the greater community.
Beliefs can lead to horrible outcomes for the community.
As an example, no sane person would hate Todd Akin for the conditions of his birth. That as a politician he wanted to decriminalize any rape resulting in pregnancy... His sincerely held beliefs make him repentant.
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@3RU7AL
While it is not "impossible" for any particular human to feel empathy for any other particular human, THE OVERWHELMING TENDENCY is for humans to feel MORE empathy for humans who are perceived to be "more similar".
Well, I think empathy concerns itself with feelings. The study makes no mention of the will to act, which is itself completely seperate from empathy. I can feel profound forms of empathy and yet I can do nothing about it if I'm overwhelmed with empathy. Empathy hampers an individual from doing desirable actions. That said, exceptions to well-established rules mean something to me. One out of 50 people will offer an extending hand; I want to know why that one person decides to do things differently. I think it's better to look at it this way. Here is a list of cases:
CASE 1: X decides to donate with an expectation of reward
CASE 2: Y decides to donate with an expectation of reward.
CASE 3: Z decides to donate with NO expectation of reward.
I want to know why good samaritans like Z exist, if indeed selfishness is coded in our genes.
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@MarkWebberFan
Donating is easy if one has spare money to donate, and remote from any real need to empathise.
By definition we empathise with those we empathise with.
And so empathy is inevitably subject to some level of internal discrimination.
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@3RU7AL
Great thread. I wish to interrupt your conversation with Ragnar with some of my opinions
Isn't killing or imprisoning or denying someone a job because of their religion and or political belief just as "evil" as "racism" ?
They're not the same thing. Belief is an association of different ideas. You connect ideas like an umbrella. If you believe in religious dustbins like Saudi Arabia, there's a high chance that you believe that anything outside of its life values is barbaric. I think treating enemies kindly is naive; the west often makes this simple mistake of trying to act ethically with rather suspicious and morally questionable individuals.
Where you are born is highly correlated with your religion and politics.And even if it wasn't, I'm still not sure it's in any way "better" to discriminate against someone for a sincerely held belief.
A sincerely held belief of mine is still my responsibility. It is my responsibility to believe in the right things. I think people have a responsibility to their beliefs. If peer pressure is a problem for them, then the fault is on them. If a sense of community gives some sort of justification for a long-held belief that you should stone adulterers, then perhaps you have failed as a human being. I think a long-held belief justified by a community sense of the virtue of tradition means nothing to me. My opinion.
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@zedvictor4
Donating is easy if one has spare money to donate, and remote from any real need to empathise.
Perhaps, but if my donation is long-term, I think it's harder to justify its existence for the simple fact that i don't empathize with the victims that im currently donating to. Empathy has its use insofar as the group is part of our inner circle.
By definition we empathise with those we empathise with.And so empathy is inevitably subject to some level of internal discrimination.
Imho, a sense of community will always subject itself to some level of internal discrimination. That said, I think it's important to seperate empathy from rather well-known ideas. For example, I think sympathy is a better alternative.
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@Mesmer
Anyway, the whole point of a definition is to define what is and what is not part of the word. Saying that "nobody is required to provide an absolute criteria" contradicts what a definition should be.
Just pointing out that you stopped responding just when I challenged you to provide an absolute criteria for "racial hatred". If you could not provide such a definition then your case really doesn't make much sense.
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@MarkWebberFan
I want to know why good samaritans like Z exist, if indeed selfishness is coded in our genes.
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@MarkWebberFan
Isn't killing or imprisoning or denying someone a job because of their religion and or political belief just as "evil" as "racism" ?They're not the same thing. Belief is an association of different ideas. You connect ideas like an umbrella. If you believe in religious dustbins like Saudi Arabia, there's a high chance that you believe that anything outside of its life values is barbaric. I think treating enemies kindly is naive; the west often makes this simple mistake of trying to act ethically with rather suspicious and morally questionable individuals.
HUMANS are HUMANS and want what HUMANS want.
We all have the exact same goals.
We use DIFFERENT strategies to achieve those goals.
HISTORICALLY, NATIONALITY and RELIGION are the exact same thing.
JEWS are born JEWISH.
SHINTO = JAPANESE
A HINDU is literally born into a CASTE based on your SKIN-TONE.
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@MarkWebberFan
If peer pressure is a problem for them, then the fault is on them.
SOCIETY = PEER PRESSURE
ANTI-PEER PRESSURE = ANTI-SOCIAL
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@MarkWebberFan
If a sense of community gives some sort of justification for a long-held belief that you should stone adulterers, then perhaps you have failed as a human being.
How do you square this statement with the following,
I think treating enemies kindly is naive
Isn't an "enemy" simply a "rule breaker" at its core?
I mean, if you encountered a group of people who were technically strangers to you, but followed nearly all of your same beliefs and laws, would they be "friends" or "enemies"?
It seems obvious that strangers we disagree with are automatically going to be labeled as "enemies".
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@MarkWebberFan
For sure.
Sympathy is a direct and motivating response to a stimulus.
Whereas empathy is perhaps a more intuitive response.
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@Barney
As an example, no sane person would hate Todd Akin for the conditions of his birth. That as a politician he wanted to decriminalize any rape resulting in pregnancy... His sincerely held beliefs make him repentant.
Please explain.
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@3RU7AL
As an example, no sane person would hate Todd Akin for the conditions of his birth. That as a politician he wanted to decriminalize any rape resulting in pregnancy... His sincerely held beliefs make him repentant.Please explain.
Todd Akin, a politician in the USA, who served as a member of the House Committee for Science, Space and Technology.
In 2012 he went public with his belief that it scientifically (he seriously claimed science on this) doesn't count as rape if you get her pregnant.
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@Barney
In 2012 he went public with his belief that it scientifically (he seriously claimed science on this) doesn't count as rape if you get her pregnant.
Did they sponsor legislation to this effect, or was this more of a "personal opinion" ?
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@zedvictor4
For sure.Sympathy is a direct and motivating response to a stimulus.Whereas empathy is perhaps a more intuitive response.
What’s the difference between empathy and sympathy? Basically, emotion. Empathy means experiencing someone else’s feelings. It comes from the German Einfühlung, or ‘feeling into.’ It requires an emotional component of really feeling what the other person is feeling. Sympathy, on the other hand, means understanding someone else’s suffering. It’s more cognitive in nature and keeps a certain distance. [**]
E-MOTION is much more likely to compel one to ACT.
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@3RU7AL
Did they sponsor legislation to this effect, or was this more of a "personal opinion" ?
He generally pushed for religious laws, particularly anti-women ones, but I don't care to look up every bill he sponsored etc.
If you actually think there's no difference between disliking someone for them wanting to de-criminalize rape (at least if it results in pregnancy), and just being born one skin tone instead of another, I don't know what to say to you.
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@Barney
If you actually think there's no difference between disliking someone for them wanting to de-criminalize rape (at least if it results in pregnancy), and just being born one skin tone instead of another, I don't know what to say to you.
If you actually can't explain the REASON why you think that disliking someone for a personal opinion they happen have is better (or worse) than disliking someone for their physical and or mental characteristics then you are by definition an UNREASONABLE person.