How much more obvious can evil get. Can we just end this DP
Vanilla Mafia DP 1
Posts
Total:
315
Vote Count
Pie (1/5) - Lunatic
Whiteflame (1/5) - Evil
Evilgenius (3/5) - Pie, DrLeb, Wylted,
About 15 hours left
My new scum pile has PIE, BRON & WYLTED ..
I have told you guys repeatedly that I’m innocent but you don’t wanna give me a chance.
Unvote VTL PIE
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@Evilgenius
My new scum pile has PIE, BRON & WYLTED ..
No reasoning, and you chose all 3 people who were listed on your lynch (I should be on there as well). Wow.
I have told you guys repeatedly that I’m innocent but you don’t wanna give me a chance.
Lol, really? We’ve called on you multiple times to give reads and actual insights that could lead to a lynch on someone else, or even just to justify your own perspective on me. You’ve had a great deal of time to do that, multiple chances to respond to people like Pie and me who have challenged you to do better. It doesn’t make you look more innocent to assert your innocence, but it sure as hell looks guilty to throw out a victim mentality after all this.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
My vote is on Evil.
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@whiteflame
Oops, sorry about that. Everything else correct?
Pie (1/5) - Lunatic
Whiteflame (1/5) - Evil
Evilgenius (4/5) - Pie, DrLeb, Wylted, whiteflame
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Aside from the more recent vote change from Evil (that'd be Pie (2/5) at this point), looks right to me.
If Evil flips town town here the only pass should be given to whiteflame, who I think genuinely thinks this is the right lynch. While I believe it's a misguided lynch (not that we are at a real loss here from losing evil) I think Whiteflame genuinely abides the reasons he is giving, and likely doesnt have scum motive for the lynch. I am slightly more suspicious of the other votes on this wagon. Steel don't feel good about pie and drleb being on it either, wylted I can see being on this lynch as maybe town here, but still he could also be scum motivated here.
I feel like poly is going to come in and hammer. Looking out for him as scum too. Even if he doesn't participate in the wagon via activity his heart is with it.
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@ILikePie5
A very detail oriented individual just doesn’t respond to my inquiry. Very strange indeed.
Let's be honest here, there isn't a world where any question he could have answered from you would satisfy you enough to unvote. You have everything you want and know he is dumb enough to dig his own grave with his answer, and then when he flips town you can avoid any and all blame here because evil is just retarded/noob town or whatever you will say.
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@whiteflame
My impression, as I said earlier, is that his OMGUS response to me is just what he normally goes for, whether as scum or as town (hard to say if that's true because we haven't seen him as scum, but we have to infer as best we can). So, no, I don't think his goal was to feign activity. I think his goal was just to get frustrated that there was a lynch on him, and, as with Disc, push a lynch on the person he dislikes as a result.
There wasn't a lynch on him though. He wasn't really any under pressure. Why does he suggest a lynch on you, someone he knows to be very active and one of the more convincing townies? All that would do is garner attention to himself. It's not like he said he knew y ou were scum or anything, he just was suggesting an idea to move the game forward, and didn't even cast his vote on you. You voted him first actually.
I wouldn't have blamed him for eventually hopping off of the lynch. Hell, even his doing it now isn't particularly sus. It was more the excuse he gave - that he was just trying to rope me into the game - that stands out. That's clearly not what he was trying to do, and it's also virtually identical to what I told him after he sussed me for VTLing him early on. It's the nature of the decision to hop off the lynch, not so much the fact that he did hop off of it, that makes him sus to me.
Just because he's not effective at getting the ball rolling doesn't mean he genuinely didn't have an intention to. He was also never on the lynch to hop on. He is a bad luck brian meme here. He suggested an idea that got quickly shot down and turned oon him.
Somebody swing the hammer .. I’m done convincing y’all..
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@ILikePie5
Town doesn’t have to clarify why they’re using “we” and “us.” Only scum worried about their image would use this - even more so from an inexperienced scum like Evil
This is a horrible argument. I use these pro-nouns often as town, pretty sure you and others have too. If anything this is a town slip, as he is naturally thinking and coming from an perspective where he realizes the only way to accomplish anything is by influencing his team, where in order to do that he would have to refer to his team as "us" and "we" to make any collective decision. At best this is a null tell.
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@Evilgenius
Somebody swing the hammer .. I’m done convincing y’all..
If you are town, don't be so willing to die. Who are you most suspicious of on your wagon?
Top 3 suspects are drleb, ilikepie, and polyglot.
Wylted and whiteflame's participation on the lynch seems more genuine, though I suppose I can see a world whiteflame is brazenly leading this lynch as scum as well. Wylted is usually part of lynches like these, though I could be wrong on him as well.
Not sure how I feel about supa yet. Kind of want to town read him, but the fact that he town reads me is ironically what makes me hesitant, because as town he is usually paranoid about me, so it suggests he has inside information if he is town reading me lol
I'd really like to see a pie lynch here. I think there is a good chance he is scum. He is an pretty aggressive scum player, and this is a very oppertunistic lynch for him. I feel like next to leb, he's got one of the worst reasonings for being on board the evil lynch. I don't see me being able to convince anyone to board this lynch, but I hope it's one that people give thought to in future day phases, especially if I am killed tonight. His reason feels more manufactured. Even if you agree with him that evil is the right way to go here, I would ask that you look past your confirmation bias and look into his specific reasons for participating on the lynch and judge for yourself whether it seems legit or manufactured given it is a pretty convienent lynch. I don't get the vibe he actually wants to lynch scum here. This seems more like an oppertunity lynch for him.
My top 2 scum suspects are Pie & Bron
I have given my reasons already..
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@Lunatic
So I’m suspicious to you because I pointed out suspicious activity in another player?
You have everything you want and know he is dumb enough to dig his own grave with his answer, and then when he flips town you can avoid any and all blame here because evil is just retarded/noob town or whatever you will say.
Also, here it seems like you believe Evil is town. You haven’t said much about all the scummy actions he has done this day phase.
My guess is you are anticipating Evil to flip innocent and trying to paint me as scummy to lead a second mislynch next day phase.
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@Polyglot
So I’m suspicious to you because I pointed out suspicious activity in another player?
I think evil is kind of obvious noob town here. I feel like a lot of the people participating on his wagon besides maybe whiteflame know he is an easy mislynch. Seeing people over analyze some of the stuff he says and act as if they believe he is digging himself a hole deeper for having a bad argument is kind of just a pre-justification for participating in a bad lynch because the victim is "asking for it". It's an easy and oppertunist lynch for scum to be a part of so naturally I am wary of people who seem more than eager to hop on board this with less than authentic feeling reasons.
Also, here it seems like you believe Evil is town. You haven’t said much about all the scummy actions he has done this day phase.My guess is you are anticipating Evil to flip innocent and trying to paint me as scummy to lead a second mislynch next day phase.
My goal here is to look into the motives of people who are on this lynch. I went as far as to say I think wylted and whiteflame are probably genuine on this lynch. Your reasons for being on this lynch don't feel as natural, same with pie and leb. Your motivations feel more oppertunistic. So yes, I hope town is able to look at the lynch wagon objectively and identify those who appear more oppertunist here.
I am literally the only person vying that evil is more likely noob town here. If I was scum it makes no sense for me to do this, as I could easily have hammered or voted for similar reasons here.
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@Polyglot
Are you having seconds thoughts on evil? You haven't voted yet, so I assume you are willing to not cede to confirmation bias. Just because I am arguing with you about this doesn't ean you have to double down on this. I would think wisely about this before you hammer.
At this point it is either Evil is scum or is just so anti-town. And I’m kind of conflicted on which to choose.
Well here I did say in post #142 that I’m still kind of conflicted as to what I believe. My earlier questioning on Evil was to get him talking more to see how he reacts to the pressure
Evil, instead of defending yourself as to why no one should vote for you because you are “noob”, can you give us the names of other people who you think are scum and some clear reasons why you think they are. Thank you.
and here I even coached him a bit by asking him to give us his leads also so we can see where his mind is at.
That didn’t really pan out too well, as he just continued calling out “noob” play for him being innocent and stated he didn’t want to give any reads when I asked.
So all in all, I’m willing to hold off on the lynch on evil and see if he can better defend himself.
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@Polyglot
If your hope is that he is going to sound more smart or something or give a better argument for his defense, I think you are SOL on that. There are certain players who you just have to take with a grain of salt. That isn't to say that they aren't capable of of making mistakes as scum, just that they are more likely to make them as town.
Just think about his motives here; his push on whiteflame wasn't really a push even though we are acting as if it was. He never even voted whiteflame. What was his goal as scum here? What was he trying to accomplish? Was his scum partner telling him to do that, if so why? Why isn't his scum partner not begging him to make a better defense here? Evil is basically already giving up and assuming he is being lynched. Seems very similar to pokemon game.
"Y’all are making a mistake on this one and Disc is just misleading y’all.. can’t you all see ? " - Pokemon dp3
"I have told you guys repeatedly that I’m innocent but you don’t wanna give me a chance." - Vanilla Mafia DP1
The similarities are striking. Clearly not the best defense but it's the only way he knows how to defend himself. If you think you will get something better than that you will likely be dis-appointed.
Let's lynch pie here, is reasons for lynching evil are the most oppertunistic out of all. Oh sure he will defend the logic behind the lynch, anyone could, but as town I think pie would be more open to considering the noob town aspects. This is an easy lynch and one that he sees that he won't have a hard time defending himself from later on. An easy mislynch.
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@Lunatic
There wasn't a lynch on him though. He wasn't really any under pressure. Why does he suggest a lynch on you, someone he knows to be very active and one of the more convincing townies? All that would do is garner attention to himself. It's not like he said he knew y ou were scum or anything, he just was suggesting an idea to move the game forward, and didn't even cast his vote on you. You voted him first actually.
Several people mentioned sussing him for the OMGUS response, which was still going at the time. I agree that he wasn't under any actual vote pressure, but I'd be surprised if he didn't see the response he'd garnered up to that point. And, again, part of the problem here is that you're saying "why didn't Evil behave optimally if he is scum when given the opportunity?" rather than "how would the Evil we've gotten to know over the past couple of games behave?" When you ask why he would suggest a lynch on me, it's because I VTL'd him. I don't think there was any scum-based calculation involved in that choice, nor do I think the effort to push that lynch was scummy. I think he would do that if he's town as well. His decision to push the lynch, if he'd continued it or just decided that the lack of support meant he should hop off of it, would have led me to view him as null or even townread him.
Just because he's not effective at getting the ball rolling doesn't mean he genuinely didn't have an intention to. He was also never on the lynch to hop on. He is a bad luck brian meme here. He suggested an idea that got quickly shot down and turned oon him.
Again, I think you're misrepresenting my point. It's not the fact that he hopped off of the lynch that's scummy, it's the excuse he gave for hopping off that makes me sus him. I've already explained this multiple times, including in the post you responded to here, so I don't see much point in addressing it further.
Gameday today! Won't be around much for the whole day as I will be tailgating.
In general, I'm amazed we're giving Evil so many chances here. Anyone else would have been lynched by this point, and the only reason we're holding off is that some people see this as noob behavior. I respect that view, but we do have an actual history for Evil on this site. He's done this exact same thing before: he gave an OMGUS response to Disc as scum in the Pokemon game. He persisted in thinking it was Disc into the next DP when pressure was still on him, and yes, gave poor reasoning to support that decision. I don't sus the fact that he's giving poor reasoning. I think that's just what he does, and the fact that he's now saying shit like this:
My top 2 scum suspects are Pie & BronI have given my reasons already..
while blatantly ignoring the fact that he's never given reasons why he susses Pie and Bron beyond the fact that they are on the wagon to lynch him right now wouldn't be particularly unusual for him in a vacuum. If we weren't considering other facets of his behavior, like his about-face on the reason why he VTL'd me or his decision to parrot reasoning from both Luna and me as a means of making his behavior look more in line with the rest of us, then I would have good reason not to sus him here.
But his behavior is more than just ignoring calls to have him provide any reasoning for sussing others (still haven't seen it), or giving weird responses like this:
Out of character? That’s me right there!!! . I’m just worried that we have scum gunning for my town ass .. tell me who the scum is poly...
that go nowhere and only seem to invite more suspicion of why he'd even bother saying them. Maybe this is just him being a noob, but his behaviors have shifted from previous games and it shows. If this is him as town, then he's changing things up and it's not helping his game. I'm more inclined to believe he's scum, and I think he stands out the most at this point. I'll almost certainly be on him immediately during the next DP if there's not good reason to sus anyone else and we choose not to lynch him now. If Luna wants to push a lynch on Pie, then Evil's flip will certainly be instructive in that, so I don't know that we stand to lose anything meaningful by lynching him.
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@whiteflame
When you ask why he would suggest a lynch on me, it's because I VTL'd him
Let's keep in mind the vote you had on evil was clearly a reaction test, and first post 4 pages later doesn't even mention your vote on him, so whether it is actually OMGUS is really just your interpretation of things. If it was true omgus, I'd have expected him to at least mention the vote on him as reason for his reactionary vote
I don't think there was any scum-based calculation involved in that choice, nor do I think the effort to push that lynch was scummy
So where is the scum based calculation now? We know there are two scum, so is his scum partner okay with this lynch? Why isn't he guiding evil in a different direction? Evil basically seems to already be admitting defeat if you look at post 163. You guys keep expecting him to make a better argument for himself, if he was scum don't you think now would be about time to do that?
His decision to push the lynch, if he'd continued it or just decided that the lack of support meant he should hop off of it, would have led me to view him as null or even townread him.
How serious do you actually think he was about lynching you, considering he didn't even vote you when he suggested it lol. And again, why you of all people? Scum don't calculate this out and say "Oh whiteflame will be an easy lynch, lets go for him and see who bites". That's a town move, and it takes balls. If you are town and genuinely interested in scum hunting, you do something like that. Sure he reason is probably horrible or whatever, but it's the motive we should be looking at.
Again, I think you're misrepresenting my point. It's not the fact that he hopped off of the lynch that's scummy, it's the excuse he gave for hopping off that makes me sus him. I've already explained this multiple times, including in the post you responded to here, so I don't see much point in addressing it further.
I am not trying to mis-represent your point. If you are expecting some grand case from evil genius that makes his every decision sound like a brilliant one, you will be sorely dis-appointed is all I am saying. His reasons for suggesting your lynch may have been poor, but he never actually voted you or seriously put an effort into lynching you beyond that post, so he couldn't really substantiate a reason for "backing off of it" as you are suggesting he should. I think you are making a bigger deal out of his prospected motives then you ought to. That said I still think you believe this is a genuinely good lynch based on your comments here. Debating with you whether evil is behaving noob town vs scum with you is probably a waste of time. If he does flip scum I'll probably feel a fool anyway. I am mostly suspicious of this wagon based on other's votes and reasoning here making less sense than yours however. Pie in particular.
What do you think of pie claiming evil was town when he responded to wylted's pressure early on? This was before evil ever even made a post. And now he is full send trying to lynch evil. What do you think of his reasoning of using the terms "us" and "We" as making evil scum indicative? Do you agree with pie that this verbiage is only used by scum, or do you see that as being oppertunistic at all?