Supreme Court Votes to overturn Roe v Wade Draft Shows.

Author: Reece101

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ADreamOfLiberty
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@Polytheist-Witch
But you keep making sure everybody has to live to your moral standard because you get to decide what everybody else gets to do with their f****** body and their f****** life
You are just as comfortable as they are in enforcing your moral standards on other people's bodies when you think there is a victim. You have no high ground here.
Polytheist-Witch
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I'm not forcing anyone to have an abortion. I'm not forcing anyone to not have an abortion. My opinion is people should be able to talk to their doctor about medical procedures make a decision on their own. I don't know what f****** victim you're talking about because there isn't a victim in an abortion that's exactly my point. The pro-life position is that that woman will do what I have to say with her body whether she likes it or not because I don't like the decision she's making. Pro-choice doesn't tell anybody they have to do anything if you don't want an abortion don't f****** get one. So I don't know this I'm controlling people's lives by letting them have the choice unless of course you're talking about the goddamn unborn that isn't even a human being yet.
TheMorningsStar
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@Polytheist-Witch
Oh, how I am so foolish, to be an... Evangelical pagan?
Oh, how I am so foolish, to be an Evangelical pagan! Foolish to have forgotten that only Evangelicals can be pro-life, how foolish of me to think that organizations like Pro-Life Humanists, Secular Pro-Life, etc. could possibly be real organizations, for all pro-life views come from the standpoint of the Evangelical... pagan? And so we wouldn't ever expect to find even secular or atheist organizations ever holding up the mantle of the Evangelical!
How foolish of me to think that the same concept of duty of care can be extended to the unborn, I should have known that such an idea was foolish, for the braindead have so declared! For limiting the freedoms of adults that must look after the health and well-being of their born children is so vastly different than limiting the freedom of adults in order for them to look after the health and well-being of their unborn children! Foolish is me who didn't see I only had to go braindead to see this reality!
Foolish is me to think that we should enforce certain moral responsibilities, let's immediately get rid of neglect laws because we should not determine how people live their lives! Thank you braindead one for showing me just how braindead I had to become to know the truth!
Everyone, let's embrace braindeath, let's embrace the power of false analogies and non-sequiturs, let's embrace the power of the fallacious reasoning! Hail braindeath!
Polytheist-Witch
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Subscribe to whatever hate based organization you want to, evangelical assholes. Force that moral responsibility that you think everybody else should live by on the others, evangelical assholes. Remember when people said gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married because people will want to marry children, you realize you're using that same argument by comparing unborn children to born children who have the right not to be abused cuz they're born people with rights protected by the Constitution,  evangelical mindset assholes. 

ADreamOfLiberty
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@Polytheist-Witch
I'm not forcing anyone to have an abortion. I'm not forcing anyone to not have an abortion.
But you are forcing them to refrain from other things, therefore you have no problem with the concept of using force to prevent people from doing things with their body. So don't act like that's where your disagreement with pro-lifers (or whatever you want to call them) is.

You disagree there is a victim, which is a very different thing from them not caring about bodily autonomy. Don't strawman, you'll never win a debate OR convince anyone that way ( actually you might convince some people, but you shouldn't do it that way).
TheMorningsStar
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@Polytheist-Witch
evangelical 
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” ~ Inigo Montoya

you realize you're using that same argument by comparing unborn children to born children who have the right not to be abused cuz they're born people with rights protected by the Constitution
All hail the braindead one! Praise be! For the power of false analogies is great and we must recognize it is only proper to embrace braindeath, as otherwise we might think this is fallacious reasoning!
Hail the power of braindeath, as if we don't embrace it we might falsely think that debates on who and what should be legally protected are immaterial, for we shall only use the explicit words of the Constitution except in the case of abortion! We must recognize through our braindeath that the limitation of freedoms in order to protect the born is vastly different and can never be properly compared to the limitation of freedoms in order to protect the unborn! Hail to the braindead one, great praises be sung! For the idea that we shall protect the lives of the innocent is an idea of hatred of women, and we have learned this through the prophet of braindeath! Praise be! Praise be!
Reece101
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@TheMorningsStar
Where do you stand exactly when it comes to abortion of healthy and unhealthy pregnancies? 

By unhealthy pregnancies I mean from rape to diseases the fetus develops, to risking the mothers life. 
TheMorningsStar
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@Reece101
Look, I said before that I don't intend to engage seriously except through message, but I do think you at least are genuine with your questioning and so will make one response here.
Rape is non-consensual sex, and thus the outcome of such an act cannot create a duty of care (I don't see a logical way of arguing from a non-consenting act to gaining responsibility for another), thus abortion becomes permissible in the case of rape. It would still be tragic, as it is the ending of an innocent life, but without a rational way of justifying the duty of care extending to the mother there is no way of justifying the violation of bodily autonomy. In consenting acts this is justifiable (as bodily autonomy can already be limited based on certain circumstances, neglect laws, and newborns), but not in cases of rape.
If the life of the mother is at risk then it becomes trickier. Usually in an accident when a paramedic needs to make a rapid decision to save a child or an adult the child is prioritized, which gives some weight to the idea that if only the mother's life is at risk that the child should still be saved, but I am not firm in that view. I tentatively take the view that abortion is permissible (because I do think that the nature of the unborn child is somewhat different than the born child), though an absolute tragedy, in those situations (though I am open to having my mind changed as it is a tentative position). I do want to note, however, that these types of situations are actually very rare.
Lastly, the idea that a fetus with certain development problems is somehow less worthy of life than a healthy one seems, to me, to use the same exact line of reasoning that one would use to argue that children with, for example, Down's Syndrome are lesser.

If you want to have any further engagement in a serious manner, then message me.
Reece101
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Rape is non-consensual sex, and thus the outcome of such an act cannot create a duty of care (I don't see a logical way of arguing from a non-consenting act to gaining responsibility for another), thus abortion becomes permissible in the case of rape. It would still be tragic, as it is the ending of an innocent life, but without a rational way of justifying the duty of care extending to the mother there is no way of justifying the violation of bodily autonomy. In consenting acts this is justifiable (as bodily autonomy can already be limited based on certain circumstances, neglect laws, and newborns), but not in cases of rape.
A woman dresses scantily, goes out partying, and she gets raped. Isn’t it partially her fault if she gets pregnant? Or would you disagree? She most likely knew the risks. And statistically it’s inevitable. Regardless of the means, she got pregnant knowing the chances.  

If the life of the mother is at risk then it becomes trickier. Usually in an accident when a paramedic needs to make a rapid decision to save a child or an adult the child is prioritized, which gives some weight to the idea that if only the mother's life is at risk that the child should still be saved, but I am not firm in that view. I tentatively take the view that abortion is permissible (because I do think that the nature of the unborn child is somewhat different than the born child), though an absolute tragedy, in those situations (though I am open to having my mind changed as it is a tentative position). I do want to note, however, that these types of situations are actually very rare.
I know it’s rare, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t informative. So between fetus and mothers life, you would go fetus? 

Lastly, the idea that a fetus with certain development problems is somehow less worthy of life than a healthy one seems, to me, to use the same exact line of reasoning that one would use to argue that children with, for example, Down's Syndrome are lesser.
By saying a fetus isn’t healthy due to development of certain diseases, you’re putting a value on it anyway. It isn’t just about its worthiness of life.


I know this will probably not get a response. I would have liked to have known your stance on healthy pregnancies. 

zedvictor4
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@TheMorningsStar
Selective morality.

The hypocrisy of the people.


So sit in a cave and only absorb drip fed nutrients from stalactites.
Polytheist-Witch
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I don't give a s*** about what you have to about this or anybody else this is about women's f****** lives. All I have to do is a vote and make sure the person I vote for will make sure that women have the choice to not be forced to be mothers cuz they decided to have sex. It's not just some little topic that you want to discuss these are people's f****** whole existence.
Tarik
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@Athias
Thus, the hypocrisy of many of those who claim to be "pro-choice." If they truly maintained a "pro-choice" position, they would extend the principle at all times. But to do this would shed light on the arbitrarily selected division at which legal "life" begins. 
Which is a good argument (can’t deny that) but there’s another side of this issue that I feel needs to be addressed more often. I take it your pro-life but what about the life of the mother argument that most lifers make an exception for, you argued that arbitrary delineations is why the viability argument is flawed but so is the health of the mother argument because one can argue that with every pregnancy a woman’s health is at risk, do you mean to tell me that the government should interfere and decide a point where that risk is worth it? That sounds like a cruel invasive violation to me. If you don’t like that argument then what about the miscarriage argument? You mean to tell me that if a woman that planned on carrying her child to term and ends up miscarrying the law should do a murder investigation on? Does that sound like an ethical thing to do to a woman after she just lost her child? These are the questions that need answers if we’re ever going to go the route of making abortion illegal because looking at it through one lens alone isn’t practical/sustainable from a legislation perspective.
3RU7AL
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@Tarik
You mean to tell me that if a woman that planned on carrying her child to term and ends up miscarrying the law should do a murder investigation on?
A 27-year-old woman in Alabama has been indicted for manslaughter after losing her unborn baby in a shooting - despite not being the shooter.

Marshae Jones was arrested on Wednesday for initiating a dispute last December that led to another woman shooting her in the stomach, local media reported.
Charges against the shooter were dismissed after a failed indictment.

Police then said that since Ms Jones allegedly started the initial argument and endangered her baby's life, she would face similar charges. Police also alleged that Ms Jemison was forced to defend herself from Ms Jones.

Pleasant Grove police Lt Danny Reid said in December: "The only true victim in this was the unborn baby. It was the mother of the child who initiated and continued the fight which resulted in the death of her own unborn baby."

Lt Reid added that the child "had no choice in being brought unnecessarily into a fight where she was relying on her mother for protection".

TheUnderdog
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@oromagi
I'm thinking Republicans  just lost 2022.
If you really believe this and you want the GOP to lose in 2022, wouldn't you support repealing Roe V Wade to help the dems.
TheUnderdog
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A well lived populace, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear life shall not be infringed.
3RU7AL
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@Tarik
Does that sound like an ethical thing to do to a woman after she just lost her child?
Ms. Lucio is facing execution on April 27 for a crime that never occurred.

n 2008, Melissa Lucio was sentenced to death in Texas for the murder of her 2-year old daughter Mariah, who died two days after a tragic fall down a flight of stairs. In shock and grieving the loss of her baby — the youngest of her 12 children at the time — Ms. Lucio was taken into police custody and immediately blamed for her daughter’s death. 

The State of Texas has scheduled Ms. Lucio’s execution for April 27, for a crime that never occurred. On Feb. 8, attorneys for Ms. Lucio filed a motion to withdraw or modify her looming execution date, and on March 22, her legal team filed a petition for clemency to the governor and Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles. But Ms. Lucio’s life is still in jeopardy. On April 15, Ms. Lucio’s attorneys filed a habeas petition with the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals seeking a stay of her execution and arguing that she deserves a new trial because she is innocent and the State relied on false evidence, and hid favorable evidence, to convict her.

3RU7AL
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@Reece101
The question of abortion rights hinges on a right to privacy

Poe v. Ullman, 1961
In Poe v. Ullman (1961), the U.S. Supreme Court declines to overturn a Connecticut law banning birth control on the grounds that the plaintiff was not threatened by the law and, subsequently, had no standing to sue. In his dissent, Justice John Marshall Harlan II outlines the right to privacy—and, with it, a new approach to unenumerated rights:

Since 1965, the Supreme Court has most famously applied the right to privacy to abortion rights in Roe v. Wade (1973) and sodomy laws in Lawrence v. Texas (2003). That said, we will never know how many laws have not been passed or enforced due to the constitutional right to privacy. It has become an indispensable bedrock of U.S. civil liberties jurisprudence. Without it, our country would be a very different place.

Reece101
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@TheUnderdog
If you really believe this and you want the GOP to lose in 2022, wouldn't you support repealing Roe V Wade to help the dems.
About only half the country votes and nothing motivates people more than when they’re against something and it’s an imminent threat personally.
The GOP yet again has created another monster. 
TheMorningsStar
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@3RU7AL
Glory be to privacy rights, that let us kill consequent free! Yes, you are wondering why my son didn't come to school today? Don't worry, he is dead! Oh, no need to investigate though, for I have a right to privacy! What's this doctor? You suspect child abuse after giving my daughter a checkup? Well good thing privacy rights exist, otherwise you might call authorities! Praise be to privacy, that protects people's actions entirely! No consequences! Hail privacy! Praise be! As long as I alone consent, it does not matter what occurs, even if other lives are involved! Praise be! Hail privacy!
3RU7AL
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@TheMorningsStar
do you believe that google and amazon and microsoft should be required to report cases of domestic abuse they are able to detect through their always-on microphones that people have voluntarily installed in their own homes ?

do you believe that telephone companies and phone apps that can track physical locations should be required to report all movement data to law enforcement ?
Lemming
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@3RU7AL
Maybe people shouldn't 'buy such technologies,
That can track them or listen to them.
TheMorningsStar
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@Polytheist-Witch
 It's not just some little topic that you want to discuss these are people's f****** whole existence.
Praise be to the braindead one, for showing us that the entire existence of women is to have consequence free sex! Shall we extend this logic into viewing women as nothing but sex objects? Of course not, because we must embrace braindeath! Through braindeath we learn that fallacies are amazing and logic is sin! Praise be to the braindead one, may praises forever be sung!
TheMorningsStar
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@3RU7AL
Praise be to the viewing of things in only black-and-white! Either we have total privacy or none at all, I should have realized that adding nuance was foolish and sinful of me! Let the wise fool enlighten us that if we let doctors break privacy to report abuse that we must also let all conceivable instances of privacy violation be lawful! Down with nuance! Let the whole world be simple black-and-white issues! Let us praise the wise fool as we embrace the wisdom of fools!
FLRW
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Late miscarriage, also called second-trimester or mid-trimester loss, refers to a miscarriage that happens when a baby dies between 14 and 24 weeks of pregnancy .
Will God be able to be sued now?   Wait, doesn't God eventually abort every Human, no matter what their age?  I'm calling Morgan and Morgan. Doesn't the Catholic Church have all of God's money?
Reece101
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@TheMorningsStar
Praise be to the braindead one, for showing us that the entire existence of women is to have consequence free sex! Shall we extend this logic into viewing women as nothing but sex objects? Of course not, because we must embrace braindeath! Through braindeath we learn that fallacies are amazing and logic is sin! Praise be to the braindead one, may praises forever be sung!
You sound sexually repressed. Why don’t you talk dirty to me? 

TheMorningsStar
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@FLRW
Oh holy fuckwad, whose comment history is filled with numerous examples of irrelevant talking points, teach us your ways! Teach us to bring up irrelevancies and to hold to the view that these irrelevancies are somehow actually relevant? How often must we concuss ourselves to embrace the divine teachings of the holy fuckwad? How often must we concuss ourselves to believe irrelevancies are relevant!
FLRW
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@TheMorningsStar
 How often must we concuss ourselves to believe irrelevancies are relevant!
You are talking about the Bible, right?
FLRW
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Oh, and don't forget that Pastor Kenneth Copeland has $750 million of God's money.  So much for "The eye of a needle".
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@FLRW
Yes, oh holy fuckwad, I, the pagan, am talking about the Bible! Because we all know that only Christians are pro-life, for Secular Pro-Life, Pro-Life Humanists, etc. are not real organizations in the least. Thank you for your divine wisdom, oh holy fuckwad! We must always talk about those damn Christians in every discussion of abortion, as that is the absolute most relevant irrelevancy! Share more of your divine wisdom oh holy fuckwad!
oromagi
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@TheUnderdog
If you really believe this and you want the GOP to lose in 2022, wouldn't you support repealing Roe V Wade to help the dems.
I do, in fact.

  • not that anyone asked before applying their prejudices
  • but my stance is a lot more complicated then the political exigencies of the moment