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Author: rbelivb

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#61
Kritikal
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@3RU7AL
i personally know females who are commonly mistaken for males

and it's ALWAYS the "conservatives" who complain that they use the female public washroom

this proves that "conservatives" are more interested in their own PERCEPTION OF OTHER PEOPLE'S GENDER than "the reality of the situation"


This just means that conservatives are wrong about this persons gender. In their best estimate, this person is actually a man. They still value biology more than gender identity.
#62
3RU7AL
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@Bones
I'll say what I said before, and that is oughtn't it be the priority of society to first  what is most accurate and then act in accordance with it? 
It is important to maintain a constant awareness of and vigilant respect of our epistemological limits.

some things are PROVABLY TRUE

some things are PROVABLY FALSE

these two categories cover less than 1% of human knowledge
#63
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@Kritikal
This just means that conservatives are wrong about this persons gender. In their best estimate, this person is actually a man. They still value biology more than gender identity.
they care not for "the truth" but merely wish to FORCE THEIR PERSONAL PERCEPTIONS on everyone else

It is important to maintain a constant awareness of and vigilant respect of our epistemological limits.
#64
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@Kritikal
 and the expected result happened when a trans man  raped a girl.
did this policy affect the average number of assaults reported in any statistically significant way ?

people have been assaulted in restrooms for centuries
#65
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@Kritikal
I am perfectly willing to condemn all premarital sex.
but are you willing to outlaw premarital sex ?
#66
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@3RU7AL
Yes, considering the small sample size. Regardless the individual event happened only because of this policy, and it would not have happened otherwise. 
#67
Kritikal
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@3RU7AL
No, but I am not going to 'outlaw being transgender' either. I (a) do not think that it is possible to switch gender or sex and (b) do not think that changing our society to accommodate transgenderism is good. 
#68
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@Kritikal
and (b) do not think that changing our society to accommodate transgenderism is good. 
what exactly needs to change ?
#69
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@Kritikal
Yes, considering the small sample size.
i'm asking about the city crime statistics

Regardless the individual event happened only because of this policy, and it would not have happened otherwise. 
you have no way of knowing this
#70
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@3RU7AL
We need to change our use of pronouns for one. We need to change our view of reality. All of the wedge issues. What don't we need to change in some way?

Then regarding the statistic. The rape of girls by trans men who are legally allowed in the woman's bathroom has gone up 100%.  
#71
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@3RU7AL
some corporations will fire you for posting pictures of yourself using a competitor's product

this is not a joke
That's their prerogative, no matter how asinine others might find their decisions.

#72
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@3RU7AL
@PREZ-HILTON
As someone who actually follows and understands TERFs, Wylted is wrong andnthat ia how the pro-Trans people strawman the TERF platform.

TERFs have zero issue with sissy males and drag queens even going by she and her in daily life. What TERFs are sick of is these trans women counting as cis women for affirmative action statistics, being named female icon of the year by Vogue, being named female employee of the month, when they are male. They want the taboo of biological sex completely made non-taboo.
#73
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@Athias
That's their prerogative, no matter how asinine others might find their decisions.
the exception to this "rule of whim" would be labor union negotiations
#74
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@Kritikal
Was that from 1 to 2.

And I like the term "wedge issues".....Does that mean what I think it does?

And trans-men in women's bathrooms seems a tad hypocritical.....Though I suppose that might depend on whether they can piss standing up.

Notice that one used the they pronoun, so as not to offend.

Notice that I used the one pronoun, so as not to offend myself.

I am slowly getting the hang of this gender thing.....(No pun or double-entendre intended).
#75
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@RationalMadman
What TERFs are sick of is these trans women counting as cis women for affirmative action statistics,
great point
#76
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@Kritikal
We need to change our use of pronouns for one. We need to change our view of reality.
human culture and language evolves over time

individual perceptions of "reality" also evolve over time (unless of course you lose the ability to form new long-term memories)

you are free to call anyone anything you wish, nobody is "forcing" you to "conform"
#77
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@3RU7AL
@PREZ-HILTON
In fact, the secondary gripe they have is females thinking that becoming a man has them more empowered and free. They see trans men as partly caving into patriarchy.
#78
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@RationalMadman
They see trans men as partly caving into patriarchy.
zoiks

what happened to "born this way"
#79
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@3RU7AL
How were the trans men born? My point isn't that I defend TERFs entirely, I simply understand their platform in ways Wylted is clearly unable to and strawmanning to suit his agenda.

They don't particularly oppose nor support transitioning gender, they encourage feminine males and masculine females to not deny their biology.
#80
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Conservative should love trans women, they can never have an abortion.
#81
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I think women who are trying to change the law so that other women can have an abortion are evil, self-loathers who completely betray their fellow women. I have far less respect for them than a woman who's transitioning to a man. That said I would never say they deserve less pay, less recognition, or less say in the laws they're allowed to vote same as I am. They also happened to be pieces of shit and completely un-American.
#82
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@3RU7AL
human culture and language evolves over time

individual perceptions of "reality" also evolve over time (unless of course you lose the ability to form new long-term memories)

you are free to call anyone anything you wish, nobody is "forcing" you to "conform"
Language might evolve, but that does not mean that I should support a rhetoric that is not in line with reality. I agree perceptions of reality evolve, but they always evolve in times of psychosis. Ideally everyone can agree on basic reality. In canada (and other places probably) you can go to jail or be forced to pay a fine for using the wrong pronouns. Even in America in some limited circumstances under sb-219: "Willfully and repeatedly fail to use a resident’s preferred name or pronouns after being clearly informed of the preferred name or pronouns."
#83
Athias
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@3RU7AL
the exception to this "rule of whim" would be labor union negotiations
Employment is an association where one purchases labor, and one sells it. It's one's prerogative to end any association for whatever reasons suits him or her. Current employment regulations don't encapsulate free association, especially Unions.
#84
zedvictor4
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@Poly

They can never have an abortion.

I expect that people once thought that it would NEVER be possible to remove someone's heart and lungs and stick a different set back in in.

Never say never.

A Uterus is no more or less a transferrable item.
#85
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@RationalMadman
You portrayed TERFs correctly. I don't disagree with any of that and just didn't want to get into nuanced details with somebody who doesn't care or will strawman them anyway
#86
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@zedvictor4
A Uterus is no more or less a transferrable item.
I disagree for a few reasons.

1. Bioethically it is a hard sell because you would have to be on rejection meds for the rest of your life, and it would probably be quite dangerous to preform just like any organ transplant. Because of this most doctors would not preform it if they believe the cons outweigh the pros, and additionally there will never be enough effort or money put into research and development. 

2. There is physically not enough space. Women have room for a uterus, men have less space. 

3. The different structure also makes it difficult to connect uterus to a blood supply. 

4. What happens when a pregnant man starts rejecting his uterus, I don't think that will be good for the baby. There would just be a lot more risks like this that make a successful pregnancy much harder. 

5. Even if it is successful, men do not produce the correct hormones to sustain a pregnancy which means that they would need hormone injections theoretically. This is certainly dangerous for the man, and probably  for the baby as well. Also men do not produce eggs, so you would need to get that from a biological women for IVF.

6. I do not think there is actually that much demand. Not that many people even opt to go for the transition surgery, but this would be a far more intensive procedure, and for what? So you don't have do adopt a baby? Some people might do it to prove a point I guess, but other than this I do not see why anyone would actually decide to go through with it.
#87
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@Kritikal
I would agree for now.

Though the claim was "never".


#88
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@Kritikal
I can think of plenty women that would love to have a new uterus because the old one is damaged in some way endometriosis, cysts,  cancer. There are women who face a lot of those same situations you mentioned c-sections are available. 
#89
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@Athias
Employment is an association where one purchases labor, and one sells it. It's one's prerogative to end any association for whatever reasons suits him or her. Current employment regulations don't encapsulate free association, especially Unions.
FREEDOM to talk about walking-out

does NOT violate any "freemarketprinciples"
#90
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@Kritikal
Ideally everyone can agree on basic reality.
ideally everyone can agree on epistemological limits